Frusterated Flat Top 44 Special Reload Question

[scramjet]

Hello:
I'm looking for load data for my Ruger New Black Hawk 44 special 5.5" barrel. First time casting for it,loading, and will be shooting it. I've casted Lee 240 grain SWC bullets (brn hrdns 12-15) non-gas checked bullets. I have a hopper full of Alliant Unique that was recently used to reload 45 Colt and would like to utilize for the 44 special. The new Lyman Cast Book lists 240 grain Lyman cast bullet data only using Unique, Lee does not list any 240 grain SWC bullet data using Unique. Question, the Lyman 240 grain SWC load data that is listed with Unique ok to be loaded with the Lee 240 grain cast bullet. Hate to sound stupid although I'd rather be safe than sorry and am looking forward to load development with the 44 special. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[TULLYMARS]

You will probably get lots of help from smarter people on here, but my 44 is happy with anything from 6 to 7.5 of unique with a 240 grain bullet.

 

[TULLYMARS]

Just reread your post, and yes, you are good to go with that Lee 240.

 

[flhr62]

You will probably get lots of help from smarter people on here, but my 44 is happy with anything from 6 to 7.5 of unique with a 240 grain bullet.

That sounds pretty smart to me.

 

[Lee Martin]

Mine loves 6.0 of Green Dot under a 250 grain Keith. It's mild, but extremely accurate in all of my 44 Specials.

This group was shot at 50 yards off the bench using the above load:

 

[steve b]

When using firearms, and reloading, being , better safe than sorry, is just smart. As said above, 6 to 7.5 gr of Unique. steve b

 

[clintsfolly]

Yep Tullymars got right! Cint

 

[Rclark]

Mine is really happy with 7.5g of Unique pushing 240g SWC in .44Spec. Just chrono'd that load at 1050fps out of 5 1/2" barrel Ruger 44Spec BH. I believe 6.0g is the load for duplicating a factory .44Spec cartridge.

 

[Paul B]

My S&W 624 has thinner cylinder walls than the new Ruger .44 Spl. It's perfectly happy with Skeeter Skelton's pet load of 7.5 gr. of Unique and a 245 gr. Lyman #429241 cast bullet. (Elmer's bullet)
Paul B.

 

[scramjet]

Thank-You everyone for the really great information! I am newer here and am running solo with cast bullet reloading experience.
The gentleman who tought me casting from our gun club casts and reloads competition rifle only and was telling me there is limited local info available up-north seems to becoming a past time. I can definetly see am sourounded by lots of very good people here.

From the responses and future refrence is it possible to conclude that even though the Lyman 44 special 240 grain SWC cast bullet has a B.C. of .149 compared to the Lee 44 special 240 grain SWC cast bullet B.C. of .124 does not have much influence compared to the grain weight each design.
Another words to reLoad by cast bullet grain weight is ok to supplement in places of other manufactures same cast bullet grain weight.

Looking forward to this one!
Thanks,
Tom

 

[flhr62]

If I understand what you are asking, yes. For the most part it does not matter who makes the bullet. Go by weight and bullet material. That is use cast data for cast bullets. The B.C. has nothing to do with your reloads at that point .

 

[Paul B]

My S&W 624 has thinner cylinder walls than the new Ruger .44 Spl. It's perfectly happy with Skeeter Skelton's pet load of 7.5 gr. of Unique and a 245 gr. Lyman #429241 cast bullet. (Elmer's bullet)
Paul B.

I probably should have added that the Lee bullet, while having the same general weight has a more bluff node and a wider driving band area if the one you have is like mine. While I still feel that Skeeter's load will be just fine, it might pay to start a bit lower, say by one full grain and work back up All I've done with my Lee mold is run a few to see how it cast but I've never loaded any yet. do think that with it's more bluff nose that it might hit a bit harder than the Lyman although when you're talking .44 caliber SWC bullet the "smack" is gonna be hard regardless. Try starting at 6.0 gr. of Unique and work uip by about a half grain until you reach 7.5, if no pressure signs show up.
Paul B.

 

[mhblaw]

What is more important than the b.c. of a lead bullet is the sized diameter. For 44 Special could be anywhere from .429 to .432. Such could make a difference in accuracy as well as pressure. Although I am sure that the suggested loads of Unique would be safe with any of the above diameters.

 

[scramjet]

Thanks again guys. I have enough information to get started and understand cast bullet loading better! I'll be sizing to .429 dia (thinking about trying the Lee Alox push through sizer vs. my RCBS lube sizer)and plan to as suggested start with 6.0 grains unique increased by .5 grain up to 7.5 grains using the Lee 250 grain bullet. All will be loaded in new Remington cases and ignited with WLP primers, and roll crimped. Hopefully I will get to the range sometime real soon with the spring like weather we are seeing.

Next reload will be the Ruger 44 mag Super Black Hawk Bisley Hunter 7.5" barrel using Lee cast 250 grain SWC gas checked bullets (start out mild get used to it move up from there). This load has a lot better variety of cast load data than the 44 special. I plan to load with Alliant 2400.

Should be a great spring having loaded cast bullets first time for:

Ruger Vequro 45 cal 200 grain
Ruger Black Hawk 44 special 240 grain (thanks to all the help here)
Ruger Super Black Hawk Bisley Hunter 250 grain

 

[flatgate]

One just might find a few reloading hints in a book written a long time ago....... :roll:

Sixguns, by Elmer Keith.

JMHO,

flatgate

 

[M'BOGO]

I've been using the Lee 240 TLSWC .44 slug, and with 7.5 gr Unique, it is scary accurate.

 

[Rclark]

Just for reference : http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44spec.htm

 

[Paul B]

That is an excellent article. I printed it out for my files. As I've mentioned before, I have two .44 Spl. revolvers, a Third generation Colt that has never been fired nor the cylinder turned, 8) and an S&W M624 with 6.5" barrel and is a tack driver. I've been using Skeeter Skelton's pet load of 7.5 gr. of Unique for so long in .44 Spl. brass, either in my .44 mags or in the 624 after I got that gun. I really like the 624 as it weighs a lot less than my 6" S&W 629.
Probably the main reason I've never shot the Colt is it's somewhat heavy in it's 5.5" barrel configuration. I'd been thinking of getting one of the Flat tops in .44 Spl. but it's heavier than the Colt. What I usually scarry the most when out in the hills is a Colt single action in .45 caliber with the 4.75" barrel. A fairly stiff load of Unique and a 255 gr. cast semi=wadcutter gives me a load that will handle most circumstances. In my neck of the woods, I don't worry overmuch about Mountain Lions and Black Bears as much as the two legged predators from across the border. They're the real problem and have caused me to not be able to enjoy desert exploration like I used to. dd to the fact that a lot of places a bit closer to home that I used to go to for an afternoon's pleasure hike have all be built up with ticky-tacky houses by greedy developers. Kind of sticks in the craw of this old desert rat. :x
Paul B.

 

[scramjet]

I've added sixguns.com/tests/tt44spcl.html link to my favorites and printed for the books!

 

[M'BOGO]

Check your throats before you start sizing to .429. Some folks are going as large as .431, and getting great accuracy.

 

[wheezengeezer]

Check your throats before you start sizing to .429. Some folks are going as large as .431, and getting great accuracy.

The ideal dia is one that barely squeaks thru the cylinder.

 

[Paul B]

Check your throats before you start sizing to .429. Some folks are going as large as .431, and getting great accuracy.

I agree. I use .431 in all my .44 caliber handguns and it woeks just fine for me. The less you size the bullet the less there is the chance chance of damaging it.
Paul B.

 

[wheezengeezer]

Check your throats before you start sizing to .429. Some folks are going as large as .431, and getting great accuracy.

I agree. I use .431 in all my .44 caliber handguns and it woeks just fine for me. The less you size the bullet the less there is the chance chance of damaging it.
Paul B.

As far as leading goes,the bullet needs to fill the groves.Whether it starts out big enough or bumps up.

 

[scramjet]

Funny as it is I figured buying new a 44 special "flat top" and 44 mag Bisley Hunter I wanted to shoot them with factory loaded amunition to see where and how they shoot. Looking over the lack of selection not to mention the price I decided to cast and reload for both right from the start.
Casting 240g .439dia and 250g .430dia lee bullets sized to .429dia/lubed and reloaded as suggested I went against my original thoughts and slugged barrels. The 44 special slugged at .429 dia and the 44 mag Bisley slugged at .430dia, no suprise. As backwards as this process has been I'm going to shoot them see where they end up at from there. Next casting i'm not going to size but to simply lube traditonal beez wax/or Allox. Should be interesting to see results once it stops dumping snow here!

 

[Paul B]

"Casting 240g .439dia and 250g .430dia lee bullets sized to .429dia/lubed and reloaded as suggested I went against my original thoughts and slugged barrels. The 44 special slugged at .429 dia and the 44 mag Bisley slugged at .430dia, no suprise. As backwards as this process has been I'm going to shoot them see where they end up at from there."

Still a bit backwards. Did you slug the cylinder throats? That can be mor eimportant than the bore/grove diameter readings. For example, if you gun with the .430" groove diameter has cylinder throats of .429. that gun will lead for forever and a day. It may or may not lead in the gun with the .429" groove diameter. I'm hoping your cylinder throats for both gunswill measure out to .430" or better yet .431" as bullet sized .431" will work just fine in both guns and properly sized bulets will not lead.
Paul B.

 

[scramjet]

Hi Paul:
Sorry to mention the first thing I measured was cylinder throats way before casting/loading. I am fortunate enough to have available at work a model shop where we have large pin gauges to use.

Those guys helped me out and really get into this stuff they measured at:

Ruger 44spcl "flat top" cylinders 1 out of 5 measured .430 dia
while one measured a tight .4305 (no big deal).

Ruger 44mag Bisley Hunter cylinders measured .430 all day long.

I was just more so concerned about bore dia since I've gone through what has been done so far.

If the damn snow ever stops we can see where these loads work best!

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Paul B]

I guesswe can discount the .4305" throat (maybe) but .429" bullets in .430" throats can very easily allow gas to escape past the bullets causing gas cutting anf therefore leading. Most of the lead will probably be deposited at or near the rear of the barrel. Whether it will be serious enough to affect accuracy only shooting will tell. If the bullets are soft enough to slug up it might not be too bad but if they're fairly hard to really really hard, I do beleive you will get leading. That's the time to break out the tight stiff brush and the Chore Boy scouring pads. Gas checked bullet might not lead as badly with the .429" bullets but I do beieve they too will create some leading. I'll be glad to hear how it all works out.
Paul B.

 

[scramjet]

Yes, I also figured the .4305 measurement can be over looked it was tight yet was slightly larger than the other five. The lead alloy I casted with was tested at work where I have a metalurgist lab available.
I have a molecular composition break down (pretty cool info) although brinell hardness was not available. I was told the machine would not read a hardness measurement the lead was to soft we typically test cast aluminum cylinders, sumps, pistons, cylinder heads, etc. for quality production, foreign stress raisers, and new product development reasons.
I have Saturday open, and was thinking of casting more 240gr .430dia 44s. Forget sizing, gas check half and leave half as casted and reload again. I'd think that would be a better load development program than what I have on the table.

 

[scramjet]

Not to get too far ahead of myself. I was thinking bore diameter is more so crucial to having a .001" larger diameter bullet close to matching the throat diameter.

Example being the 44 we are discussing:
A bore diameter of .429 with a throat diameter of .430 using a sized or non-sized cast .430 diameter bullet should work out great, even if the throat diameter is lets say .431,.432 diameter. Is this correct, just trying to get cast bullet standards streight.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Paul B]

"A bore diameter of .429 with a throat diameter of .430 using a sized or non-sized cast .430 diameter bullet should work out great, even if the throat diameter is lets say .431,.432 diameter. Is this correct, just trying to get cast bullet standards streight."

"A bore diameter of .429 with a throat diameter of .430 using a sized or non-sized cast .430 diameter bullet should work out great,"

This part is OK.

"even if the throat diameter is lets say .431,.432 diameter. Is this correct, just trying to get cast bullet standards streight."

This is where you go wrong again. It would be the same situation as if you were shooting .429" bullets in .430" throats. Gas blow by would cause serious leading.

I had one .44 magnum that had a .429" bore and .428" throats. :shock: Gun leaded every time I shot is nd accuracy sucked big time. I had a gunsmith open up the throats to .430", sized my bllets to .431" and it's sbeen a good shooter ever since and does not lead the barrel. 8)

Paul B.