Florida building collapse

T

toysoldier

Hunter
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Hutchinson, KS USA
--Is just too much. Any time a building comes down disastrously, the tinfoil hat crowd starts claiming it was a controlled demolition. I wish one of the networks would show a special on what it takes to bring a building down. You can't sneak in one night, slap some C-4 on a few pillars, and blow the place. It takes months of planning; reviewing blueprints, doing a full structural survey, developing a plan of where to place explosives, how much to use, and firing sequence. Then there's weeks of preparation work; pre-weakening some areas, drilling holes in concrete columns, placing the charges, and hooking everything up to a complex wiring network. The companies that know how to do this, and their employees, DO NOT engage in mass murder!
As for why the Florida condo fell, I'm still betting on a sinkhole opening up.
 
Sir you are correct. Except for cause. I'm going with structural failure of the steel. Possibly corrosion related, but one can't discount the possibility of poor quality steel. Testing will easily determine if either of these was involved.
 
As seen on today's (6/26/'21) Drudge Report:

https://dnyuz.com/2021/06/26/engineer-warned-of-major-structural-damage-at-florida-condo-complex/

"Three years before the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami, a consultant found alarming evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and “abundant” cracking and crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the parking garage under the 13-story building>'
 
Why am I not surprised that a 40 year old condo on the beach, with noted problems, collapsed like it had been taken down by demolition. This is an example why we need more effort/money to inspect, restore and replace buildings and structures that have not aged well.
 
You have to have an honest inspection department to start with. Governed by an honest local government.
 
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. It prejudices the judgement." Sherlock Holmes to Dr. Watson in The Sign of the Four.
 
jgt said:
You have to have an honest inspection department to start with. Governed by an honest local government.
Click to expand...

From what I read there was an honest inspect. Total cost of proper repairs was something like $9.1 million. The owners of the building never made the repairs. Liability is on them and I hope they get sued into oblivion. :x
FWIW, 40 year old building that had it's foundation soaking up brackish water for year probably should never have been built in the first place.
Paul B.
 
Ray Newman said:
As seen on today's (6/26/'21) Drudge Report:

https://dnyuz.com/2021/06/26/engineer-warned-of-major-structural-damage-at-florida-condo-complex/

"Three years before the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami, a consultant found alarming evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and “abundant” cracking and crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the parking garage under the 13-story building>'
Click to expand...


..............this............
 
Speculation on the "cause" ignores the fact it was built on 'wetland'. This is common with 'developers' who are more interested in 'profit' and those politicians who want 'progress' (code for more tax dollars in their coffers). We have lots of construction occurring at this very instance on former wetlands. Never mind the mud slumps etc. etc. $$$$ is what it is all about and that drives the process and materials used. Quality in the construction industry has been missing for over a hundred years!
An some folks ridicule 'cowboy' construction' techniques! Really?
 
Paul B said:
jgt said:
You have to have an honest inspection department to start with. Governed by an honest local government.
Click to expand...

From what I read there was an honest inspect. Total cost of proper repairs was something like $9.1 million. The owners of the building never made the repairs. Liability is on them and I hope they get sued into oblivion. :x
FWIW, 40 year old building that had it's foundation soaking up brackish water for year probably should never have been built in the first place.
Paul B.
Click to expand...
Owners of the building were the residents. It’s a condominium.
 
jgt said:
You have to have an honest inspection department to start with. Governed by an honest local government.
Click to expand...

Down in the Miami Area ?? fergit it !

I heard of an inspector of a housing development that sat in his auto and let them bring the papers out for him to sign. NEVER LOOKED at how the developers were cheating.
 
toysoldier said:
--Is just too much. Any time a building comes down disastrously, the tinfoil hat crowd starts claiming it was a controlled demolition. I wish one of the networks would show a special on what it takes to bring a building down. You can't sneak in one night, slap some C-4 on a few pillars, and blow the place. It takes months of planning; reviewing blueprints, doing a full structural survey, developing a plan of where to place explosives, how much to use, and firing sequence. Then there's weeks of preparation work; pre-weakening some areas, drilling holes in concrete columns, placing the charges, and hooking everything up to a complex wiring network. The companies that know how to do this, and their employees, DO NOT engage in mass murder!
As for why the Florida condo fell, I'm still betting on a sinkhole opening up.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree... but there are exceptions.. Timothy McVeigh for example.....
 
The inspection process I am referring to is made when the building is being built, not when it is crumbling from poor construction.
 
blume357 said:
toysoldier said:
--Is just too much. Any time a building comes down disastrously, the tinfoil hat crowd starts claiming it was a controlled demolition. I wish one of the networks would show a special on what it takes to bring a building down. You can't sneak in one night, slap some C-4 on a few pillars, and blow the place. It takes months of planning; reviewing blueprints, doing a full structural survey, developing a plan of where to place explosives, how much to use, and firing sequence. Then there's weeks of preparation work; pre-weakening some areas, drilling holes in concrete columns, placing the charges, and hooking everything up to a complex wiring network. The companies that know how to do this, and their employees, DO NOT engage in mass murder!
As for why the Florida condo fell, I'm still betting on a sinkhole opening up.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree... but there are exceptions.. Timothy McVeigh for example.....
Click to expand...

I remember my uncle talking about McVeigh. Using over a ton of explosive with some knowledge of the Munroe effect is not quite the same as a controlled explosion. He also described when a hotel in downtown Indianapolis was taken down by explosives. The story went that 8 teenagers were hired to knock holes in interior walls with sledgehammers.
 
" This is an example why we need more effort/money to inspect, restore and replace buildings and structures that have not aged well."
I agree that buildings need to be inspected but the restoration and replacement of private property is up to the owner. Infrastructure repair in a federal bill should be for federal and state projects. Otherwise it is just a large slush fund.
 
I was watching Newsmax today. They reported about a fireman searching the rubble and finding the body of a little girl.

The little girl was his daughter. Man, that's one hard pill to swallow. :shock: Can you imagine????
 
Later reports said he didn't find her himself, but was on-scene elsewhere at the time.

Reports are coming in so fast it's hard to know which ones to believe since the media only cares about being "first if not necessarily correct".
 
caryc said:
I was watching Newsmax today. They reported about a fireman searching the rubble and finding the body of a little girl.

The little girl was his daughter. Man, that's one hard pill to swallow. :shock: Can you imagine????
Click to expand...

I don't even want to contemplate experiencing that.

From what I have heard on the news it would seem that this tragedy could have been averted. That makes it much worse.
 
That era of condo construction has problems. There needs to be better inspections and evaluations of the buildings now. Just the whole idea of giant multi-story buildings built on the ocean is a bad idea but you know, money talks. In North Miami Beach a condo was just evacuated and condemned as a result of that collapse and others will be following, I am sure.
 
Seeing the photos show the common problem of the rebar rusting in the cement and then popping the concrete apart and losing its strength. The problem is greater if they used beach sand in the construction. Hearst Castle has problems from the beach sand they used.
New rebar can be had with encapsulation to slow down or prevent the rust.
 
Not to minimize the tragic human loss.

I’m curious about what happens next. Will the insurance pay each condo owner? Do they all own a share of the demo/cleanup costs? Do they all own a piece of the remaining building lot? Will the city allow it to be rebuilt?

What about the slew of condemned buildings that are in the future as they ramp up inspections?
 
Years ago a local fireman responded to an accident where his daughter was killed. It happens. I responded to an accident where a fellow fireman was killed. The cause of both incidents. A drunk driver.
 
eveled said:
Not to minimize the tragic human loss.

I’m curious about what happens next. Will the insurance pay each condo owner? Do they all own a share of the demo/cleanup costs? Do they all own a piece of the remaining building lot? Will the city allow it to be rebuilt?

What about the slew of condemned buildings that are in the future as they ramp up inspections?
Click to expand...

While South Florida building codes are very good the laws concerning Condos are not very well defined by the State of Florida. Condos are pretty much on their own to regulate themselves. This article might answer many of your questions.

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/regional/florida/condo-owner-florida-laws/67-88218751-28ef-44c3-9016-ff0904f585ba
 
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