Fires Out West...

[WAYNO]

The yearly trend is to have large, continuous fires for most of the summer, in California, Oregon, and the rest of the Western states.

Our fire season hasn't been as bad as previous years, until now very recently, they're exploding everywhere and catching up for lost time.

And with the fires, we get the smoke. Today is really the first day the smoke has entered the Willamette Valley, but when it does, it does so with a vengeance.



Again, my Prayers are offered to the folks that must endure these conflagrations. Until you've experienced such a fire, you cannot imagine the ferocity of such forest fires.

Where I hunt in the High Cascades, they've only recently resumed logging. It's mostly small partial cuts, and from what I'm seeing, they are not cleaning or removing the slash. With most of the forest logging roads grown over, incipient fires cannot be attacked quickly or easily. We are prime for the fire of the century.

My heart goes out to the folks involved, and to the fire fighters that are expected to make it all right.

 

[dougader]

We took a day trip up to Trillium Lake on Mt Hood today. Didn't see the smoke until we passed Rhododendron and headed up the mountain. By the time we got to the lake it was getting pretty smokey. Usually, you would see Mt Hood behind us, looking down on Trillium Lake. Because of the smoke, you can't see the mountain at all.

On our way home, we heard on the radio they were telling everyone to go home because high winds 40-50 mph with 65 mph gusts are expected tonight and the fire (at Mt Hood Meadows) will go wild and uncontrolled.

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[WAYNO]

We took a day trip up to Trillium Lake on Mt Hood today. Didn't see the smoke until we passed Rhododendron and headed up the mountain. By the time we got to the lake it was getting pretty smokey. Usually, you would see Mt Hood behind us, looking down on Trillium Lake. Because of the smoke, you can't see the mountain at all.

On our way home, we heard on the radio they were telling everyone to go home because high winds 40-50 mph with 65 mph gusts are expected tonight and the fire (at Mt Hood Meadows) will go wild and uncontrolled.



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Just for perspective, this is the 'normal' view of Mt. Hood from Trillium Lake...










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[Pat-inCO]

The smoke from many of those fires has blanketed the Phoenix Basin for quite a
while. I live at the Southern edge of the basin, with a "mountain" range in the middle.
That "mountain" (minor hill in CO) has not been visible for most of the last month.

Even with ten to fifteen mph winds, you can not see across the basin.

 

[Jeepnik]

It's been hot. Over 100 at my place on the coast yesterday. Smoke from the fires many miles away left my vehicles covered with ash this morning. You and smell the smoke in the air.

Then today a miraculous thing happened. I awoke to a cool breeze off the ocean. At about 8 AM fog settled. The temp today never got out of the 70's. The wife and I went to the beach. Kind of gloomy, cool and very pleasant. Crowded by hey it's Labor Day weekend.

So what caused this miracle. Here in SoCal if it gets extremely hot the air inland starts to rise rapidly. This creates a localized low pressure area. Then the air from the ocean flows into the low pressure area. And the coast cools rapidly to a very nice temp.

It's called a thermal low. The weather folks can't predict it. But it sure makes things nice in my neck of the woods.

 

[Mobuck]

Generally speaking, those yearly fires are directly related to the tree huggers "save the tress" ideology. A decade ago, it was very plain to even a flatlander from the Midwest that a problem was looming due to regulations(and public outcry) limiting the harvest of overgrown and beetle killed timber in Colorado and many other areas of the West.
In 2010, there was a big wildfire in the "4 corners area of SW Colorado that was the topic of much concern for the future of the Arkansas River valley since a large amount of beetle kill was present and just waiting for ignition. Hundreds of square miles of dead, tinder dry lodgepole but the regulations prevented even cutting up fallen dead trees w/o a permit and "logging" was a cuss word among the same folks who complained about the fire hazard.

 

[Colonialgirl]

Generally speaking, those yearly fires are directly related to the tree huggers "save the tress" ideology. A decade ago, it was very plain to even a flatlander from the Midwest that a problem was looming due to regulations(and public outcry) limiting the harvest of overgrown and beetle killed timber in Colorado and many other areas of the West.
In 2010, there was a big wildfire in the "4 corners area of SW Colorado that was the topic of much concern for the future of the Arkansas River valley since a large amount of beetle kill was present and just waiting for ignition. Hundreds of square miles of dead, tinder dry lodgepole but the regulations prevented even cutting up fallen dead trees w/o a permit and "logging" was a cuss word among the same folks who complained about the fire hazard.

And the "Logging Roads" (AKA: Fire Roads ) are no longer allowed to be maintained thus making it difficult to reach even a small blaze before it grows and spreads.
Thank You moronic "climate change" people.

 

[Rick Courtright]

And the "Logging Roads" (AKA: Fire Roads ) are no longer allowed to be maintained thus making it difficult to reach even a small blaze before it grows and spreads.
Thank You moronic "climate change" people.

Hi,

I've gotta do my homework, Pamela, but aren't you referring to the "Roadless Initiative" that came in sometime during the Clinton administration? I was active on a couple of outdoor boards/forums at the time, and the Yellowstone fire was still fresh in everyone's mind (1988 or so?), so there was a lot of discussion about "everything fire" going on at the time, and we're seeing a lot of the predictions coming true now. A coworker's brother had been on a fire crew in Yellowstone, and pretty much drew us a map of "how we got here" and "where it's gonna take us" as to the effects of too much political action and not enough biology and other scientific input.

Rick C

 

[dougader]

So, this morning a friend from Gaston called and they are on alert for evacuation from a fire.

We have a 5 acre fire on private timber land just outside town. Eugene is getting hit with wildfires, too.

What or who is starting all these fires? No mention in the related news stories.

 

[WAYNO]

So, this morning a friend from Gaston called and they are on alert for evacuation from a fire.

We have a 5 acre fire on private timber land just outside town. Eugene is getting hit with wildfires, too.

What or who is starting all these fires? No mention in the related news stories.

And Hwy 22, Lyons to Detroit. And that's Praying the three fires don't merge.


And just when we think we have it bad, California is unimaginable...

 

[dougader]

It's been dark out here, with a yellow haze all day long. Fine ash coats our cars...

Lucky not to be in the path of these fires.

 

[krw]

Aint never been to Ca. Have no desire to go either. But there has to be windows in ‘wetter’ season to hav controlld burns. You cant hav these huge fires every yr. Dont know why any insurance co would sell home ins where there is any risk at all of fires

 

[WAYNO]

Aint never been to Ca. Have no desire to go either... Dont know why any insurance co would sell home ins where there is any risk at all of fires

Not much different than selling insurance in the tornado and hurricane belt.


:wink: .

 

[bogus bill]

Anywhere you go there is good and bad things about it.

 

[WAYNO]

Anywhere you go there is good and bad things about it.

Exactly. :wink:

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Aint never been to Ca. Have no desire to go either... Dont know why any insurance co would sell home ins where there is any risk at all of fires

Kind've how we feel about the tornado and hurricane belt.

Yep I do believe that everyplace in the US has some type of REAL bad whether and Arkansas also has it.

 

[Robb Barnes]

Wind blew down trees which took out powerlines and started fires in the Santiam Canyon last night. My farrier evacuated at 1:30 this morning and got out with all the animals but his place is gone as is the home of several other folks I know. The arena just down the hill is taking in displaced animals and if they get full they will bring a couple up here to our place. The sky looks like what Tolkien describes in Middle Earth where the ring has to be tossed into the fire.

 

[WAYNO]

And since this afternoon...

We are housing a cousin who is evacuated.

And my neighbor is housing a family who lost an entire farm today, including their livestock.

This is incredible. Fires popping up everywhere, and just exploding in size.

 

[Robb Barnes]

I just heard my pastors daughter in law lost a parent and has a 12 year old brother missing. He panicked and ran into the forest when the house caught fire and has not been seen or found yet. I got a call earlier today from a friend saying they needed wheelbarrows and pitchforks at the fairgrounds where the evacuated horses are staying. Made a trip to the feed store and about wooed out their pitchfork and wheelbarrow supply and took the load over just an hour or so ago.

Decided a few items need to in the classifieds to raise some funds to help out in a more substantial way.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=289578

Link added . . . Moderator

 

[Heliman]

I have lived in the PNW my entire life and do not recall ever having this many fires simultaneously. Pretty devastating. Hi winds and single digit humidity. We will still have several more days of choking smoke. Wish the folks here good luck!

Dave

 

[Robb Barnes]

Just read the boy was 13, not twelve and he did not make it out. It was his grandmother who also died and his mom is in critical condition. The dad had gone to find a generator since he heard high winds were coming and probable power outages. i can not imagine his grief, regret and pain. The sister, who is married to the pastors son was at our house for a wedding last summer and she just had a baby. Her world is ripped apart.

 

[Mobuck]

"But there has to be windows in ‘wetter’ season to hav controlld burns."

You know what they say? It's always sunny in southern California. Regardless, one would think there should be a time when the scrub brush could be burned off in a more controlled fashion. I really don't have any sympathy for folks who live in the middle of a tinderbox jungle.
I'm sure there are many places where it won't work but many of the newsreel scenes are showing land on which a couple of 4WD tractors with heavy discs could easily "contain" the sagebrush fires. I've done some controlled burns and fought some "out of control" burns and a bunch of guys with rakes and axes may not always be the right tool for the job.

 

[Pat-inCO]

After the CO Hayman fire (330K acres IIRC) there was a big push for "mitigation".
While it took a few years, a whole lot of people took a look at the burn patterns and
decided to do what they should:

1) No low hanging limbs (less than six feet)
2) Clean out the slash (dead limbs and brush)
3) NO FIREWOOD near the house (some had it stacked on the side of their house)
4) NO tree limbs overhanging the house - - - Some even went so far as to not have
trees within twenty to thirty feet of the house.

Strange ( :roll: ) fewer and fewer houses are lost in the fires since then. :roll: . :roll: . :roll:

In fact, there was one fire (don't remember the name) that was West of the
Air Force Academy (CO Springs) where there was some video shot as the fire
started of a high end neighborhood and the commentary was something like
"look at how some of those houses have NOT done their mitigation". Video shot
after the fire had passed showed that all of the houses using mitigation techniques
were untouched, those that didn't were just rubble. - - Golly-Gee! It works.

 

[blackhawknj]

On another board someone noted that a major source of conflict will be-WATER WARS !
A combination of building-overbuilding in desert and near desert areas, areas of inadequate rainfall, in California's case prolonged drought combined with inadequate snowfall and snowpack in the mountains, resources that really can not be tapped.
The Colorado River seems to be past its peak. Several lawyers said they found riparian rights the most confusing aspect of legal studies, one noted that in Colorado water rights and property ownership are often separate-buying the land does not give you the water. MJ cultivation is very water intensive, there will be battles between MJ cultivators-and food producers.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Aint never been to Ca. Have no desire to go either.

Hi,

That's ok. It's been tough, but we've managed without you. But if you'd like to open your mind, come out for a visit, and spend enough time to see the State from the Mexican to the Oregon borders, you might get an idea how these things happen.

As for controlled burns, there's a local joke that the most dangerous person in the forest is a USFS employee with a book of matches. When you don't have a "wet season" to speak of, it's hard to find that window. Now it's the "dry season" (the other 364 days of the year) and I'm sitting a half block outside a mandatory evacuation area as I type this. 12,000 acres burned so far, started by some idjit with a pyrotechnic device in 2-3 foot high dry grass. My niece is waiting on pins and needles to see if her home is ok after being evacuated for six days. Somebody on Twitter posted a satellite image of the smoke with the caption: "Imagine being so dumb, your stupidity can be seen from space!" So please excuse me for being a bit edgy.

On a good note, for the aviation buffs, most of the terrain in this fire is inaccessible by ground, so it's almost all being fought from the air. Watching DC-10 and 747 tankers at work is a tribute to people who really know how to fly! Just a quickie: https://twitter.com/i/status/1302379494758465536 Watch the beginning carefully and you'll see a small aircraft ahead of the 747. He's the guide/spotter who gets the tanker lined up for a drop. Unlike a lot of the smaller tankers, these guys can't maneuver quickly so everything has to be well planned and timed to work. BTW, I know that house...

Rick C

 

[Rick Courtright]

On another board someone noted that a major source of conflict will-WATER WARS !
A combination of building-overbuilding in desert and near desert areas, areas of inadequate rainfall, in California's case prolonged drought combined with inadequate snowfall and snowpack in the mountains, resources that really can not be tapped.
The Colorado River seems to be past its peak. Several lawyers said they found riparian rights the most confusing aspect of legal studies, one noted that in Colorado water rights and property ownership are often separate-buying the land does not give you the water. MJ cultivation is very water intensive, there will be battles between MJ cultivators-and food producers.

Hi,

Around 1850, Mark Twain said "In California, whiskey's for drinking and water's for fighting over!"

Jump forward 170 yrs or so, change "California" to "the West", and nothing's changed...

BTW, that "what's above the ground is yours, what's below it isn't" idea is pretty common in this part of the country. My parents lived on top of an oil well for a few years before they retired. Standard Oil owned the mineral rights to huge chunks of the Los Angeles South Bay cities. They slant drilled much of it. It was about 3/4 of a mile from the house to the closest "grasshopper" in the parking lot of a huge mall. That was in a straight line on the surface. I've no idea how far it was from the grasshopper to the actual oil.

Rick C

 

[dougader]

Just read the boy was 13, not twelve and he did not make it out. It was his grandmother who also died and his mom is in critical condition. The dad had gone to find a generator since he heard high winds were coming and probable power outages. i can not imagine his grief, regret and pain. The sister, who is married to the pastors son was at our house for a wedding last summer and she just had a baby. Her world is ripped apart.

Very sad. Found out today a legal secretary at work is related to this family. Just awful.

My son and his family were evacuated from their place up on the far side of Oregon City towards Estacada. I hope they don't lose their place. They are glad to be out safe.

Prayers to those hurt so terribly by all of this.

 

[dougader]

For you in Oregon: ORS 161.225

You see someone trying to set a house on fire... that's a shooting offense. Especially if it's your house.

 

[Heliman]

Our friend WAYNO is currently hurriedly getting ready just case. His area in Clackamas county has moved to level 2 for potential evacuation. Prayers for all our friends in Oregon and elsewhere dealing with these fire threats.

Dave

 

[kmoore]

Please cut and paste ORS 166.225. It's not a number in current ORS code. Or just explain the law. I am not sure what your attempting to point out.