Expectations too high for $400?

[revhigh]

I'd rather buy a better gun, used, than a "lesser" gun new.

Absotively !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REV

 

[Al James]

The SA trigger is still like dragging a bag of sand through a gravel pit, but it works.

WOW !! That sounds nice !!

REV

Meh... they're all like that. Something to do with the magazine safety. I didn't really know how bad it was till I fired a 46YO S&W wheelgun.

FWIW the DA trigger is awesome.

KP90=No magazine safety=no affect on trigger pull.

 

[waynejitsu]

Has anyone else considered that maybe we're expecting too much of a $400 weapon? The SR9 has settled in at that number and the 9c is going to be there too. The Sigma is in that range (or less) and the Taurus striker guns are around there. Probably others I forget too. Point is that for $400 what can one reasonably expect? Flawless operation? A 1911 type trigger pull? Pinpoint accuracy? Probably not.

For $400, $1000, $200, $600, $300, $2500, etc, etc.
I don't "expect", I "demand" RELIABILITY.

If it does not shoot every time, to me, it is WORTHLESS.
I buy a gun..., why? to shoot..., if it does not shoot, why bother with "I hope it fires "this time".

No matter the price of the gun, it HAS TO operate and do it reliably and accurately (as in, accurate for defense).

As an example, I own an expensive audio system. (($10,000+)
I expect it to turn on and play..., every time I push the on button..., and it does.
I also own cheaper audio, say $50. It also turns on every time I press the on button.
BOTH play- every time. I expect nothing less.
If it does not work every time, it is, IMO, worthless and needs to be trashed and buy something that does work properly.

Now, the $50 audio does not have the sound or features of the nice system, but both work as designed.

I also have a $2 light switch on my wall (guessing at cost, but know it is just a cheap, flip on light switch).
Every time I flip the switch, the light comes on..., and for $2.
If it did not, I would get a new, $2 switch..., I want it to work..., EVERY TIME.

$400 for a gun, same thing, I expect it to work.
$300 for a gun, same thing, I expect it to work.
$200 for a gun, same thing, I expect it to work.
$100 for a gun, same thing, I expect it to work. (just saying
$4000 for a gun, same thing, I expect it to work.

If a product is designed and sold to the public "to work as advertised",
I for one EXPECT IT TO, price is not even entered to the question.
IT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.
You can not make an excuse and say "well, it only cost so-and-so, so it is expected not to always work.
Why would you buy something that does not work?
Just because it was cheap?
To me, that makes NO Sense.

It MUST function properly, or it is worthless.
I do not expect the trigger to be as smooth.
I do not expect the finish to be as good.
I do not expect all the "bells & whistles", fancy grips, lasers, lights, tritium sights, etc, etc...,
However, I DO EXPECT IT TO PROPERLY FUNCTION.
I never make excuses because it was at a certain "price point".

When purchasing something..., anything new,
If it is audio, I expect it to play, at any price.
If it is a car, I expect it to run, at any price,
If it is a lawn mower, I expect it to run, at any price,
and on and on and on and on..., etc, etc...,

WHY would I expect less from an emergency piece of equipment that has the potential to save me, my family, neighbors, friends, etc, etc.
If I buy something..., anything..., I open the package, I expect it to work as advertised, not "have to" spend hundreds to make it work.

Yes, I have many custom guns. Not because I "had to spend money to make them work", but only because I wanted to spend money to make them more personalized, to make them how I would have designed them from the beginning or to make them more fun to shoot, etc, etc.

If we, as consumers "allow" companies, not only a gun company, but any company, to make substandard equipment, new, out of the box, that WE "have to" repair before being able to use it, it is then our fault for supporting said company and allowing them to "get by" with selling junk and not being held to a higher standard.

If my audio system goes out, I miss my favorite song.
If my new gun that I buy does not function properly, it may cost me (or someone else) a LIFE.

MANY people can not afford a custom built pistol.
Many do not want a custom built pistol (for example, my mother).
Many can not afford a custom built pistol and it takes everything they have (or can borrow) to buy a $200 gun for home protection.
They can not afford thousands of rounds to "break in" a defense weapon.
They buy a NEW gun and count on it to function, 100% when or if it is needed..., just like their $15 radio, $100 TV or $5 pocket knife.

Those people are not like "US". They do not have a gun collection, every gun magazine, etc. They are not even interested in guns, other than they bought one to protect themselves and their family.

Would anyone expect this person to "have to" spend more money on a NEW item in order for it to function as it should, new, right out of the box?

If I buy something..., ANYTHING..., and it does not work properly, I return it for and exchange.
If the next one does not work properly, I get a refund and buy something else that does work.

WHY would we expect less from a gun company?

"If" I was going to expect less (and I don't) from a company, it sure would not be from a company that makes a product that has the potential to save my life or the life of my family and friends.
If anything, they should be held to a higher standard than a $15 Chinese radio..., heck, if we paid $15 for a radio and it did not work, we would return it for a refund or exchange.
Why do people expect less from life saving equipment?
Why would you feel the "need" to have to work on a NEW gun because it does not work properly?
That is the gun company problem, not yours...,
Yes, if you "want to" modify it, that is one thing, but to "have to", that is not happening with me and should not with you.

A NEW item sold in America is expected to function properly or as advertised, at ANY price.
If not, RETURN IT-
They will eventually get the picture.
You want an item that "WORKS" when it is still NEW.

OK,
end of rant
(maybe someone got something out of it..., true story and no charge, LOL!!)

 

[Mike J]

First off Fishslayer you've got me wondering what is up with that P-90 now. I have never heard a P series single action trigger described that way. My P944 has a lot of take up but once you get to the actual trigger pull it is short & crisp. The trigger was kinda rough when I first got the gun but after a couple thousand rounds it smoothed out nicely.

As far as expectations for $400 dollars. For that amount of money it better work. I bought a Kel Tec for less than that & I had some minor difficulties with it. Most of which were caused by me. Kel Tec customer service worked with me even though I caused the problem. It is reliable now.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Uh, you may want to think about decaf there Wayno :?

 

[waynejitsu]

Uh, you may want to think about decaf there Wayno :?

Maybe I should have shortened it to-
Why would anyone be stupid enough to pay for and keep something that does not work correctly.

Sound better armenian?

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Uh, you may want to think about decaf there Wayno :?

Maybe I should have shortened it to-
Why would anyone be stupid enough to pay for and keep something that does not work correctly.

That's a good question with a lot of different answers. Bit O/T though.

You did have a good point about something, most gun buyers are not "us". I bet most handguns are bought, shot a few times, then go live in the safe or closet or whatever, never to see the light of day again. If that's true, most handguns might be bought with the intent of defense but really are never used for it. A gun in a safe or in the closet in it's original plastic box is not a defensive tool. Most people will never know that their gun will peen the barrel or the slide release isn't or the serrations are too sharp or the trigger too stiff etc etc. I completely agree with you that any new gun should go bang every time. The reality might be that a $400 gun is at the very bottom of the heap (think about how many 9mm semi-autos cost less and how many cost more...it's near the bottom of the list) and truthfully to expect it to be stone reliable, combat ready might be too much to ask. That was the original intent of the thread and the idea has been explored thoroughly and thoughtfully.

Scot and german descent here BTW, not armenian :wink:

 

[Fishslayer]

First off Fishslayer you've got me wondering what is up with that P-90 now. I have never heard a P series single action trigger described that way. My P944 has a lot of take up but once you get to the actual trigger pull it is short & crisp. The trigger was kinda rough when I first got the gun but after a couple thousand rounds it smoothed out nicely.

Probly the MOST common description of the P90's SA that I've heard is "gritty." And it is.
Mine never surprises me when it goes off. Mind, I only have several hundred rounds through it and I AM comparing to one of the finest triggers going that has had 46 years of break in. Not really fair, but...

People who own them say that Ruger fixed what was wrong in the P345.

 

[Fishslayer]

Uh, you may want to think about decaf there Wayno :?

Maybe I should have shortened it to-
Why would anyone be stupid enough to pay for and keep something that does not work correctly.

Sound better armenian?

I've kinda wondered why the gun shop is off the hook when it leaves the building? If my Chinese radio doesn't work it goes back to Walmart.

The reality might be that a $400 gun is at the very bottom of the heap (think about how many 9mm semi-autos cost less and how many cost more...it's near the bottom of the list) and truthfully to expect it to be stone reliable, combat ready might be too much to ask.

Yeaaaaaah.... I'm gonna haveta go ahead and disagree with you there.... M'kay? :wink:

 

[ArmedinAZ]

I've kinda wondered why the gun shop is off the hook when it leaves the building? If my Chinese radio doesn't work it goes back to Walmart.

This was discussed at length a while back, many different opinions about how to best deal with a New In Box Broke Gun.

The reality might be that a $400 gun is at the very bottom of the heap (think about how many 9mm semi-autos cost less and how many cost more...it's near the bottom of the list) and truthfully to expect it to be stone reliable, combat ready might be too much to ask.

Yeaaaaaah.... I'm gonna haveta go ahead and disagree with you there.... M'kay? :wink:

Well OK, but in the plastic frame semi-auto 9mm arena:

Sigs - more
Glocks - more
XDs - more
S&W - Sigma less, M&P more
Taurus - even
Hi Point - less
EAA - even (plastic)
Kahr - more
Walther - more
FN - more
Beretta - more
CZ - more
STI - more
Jericho - more
Stoeger - even/more
Wilson - WAY MORE :shock:

Fill in any I missed. Throw out the Hi Point at the rock bottom and the Wilson at the top and the SR9 is still near the bottom pricepoint. Not dissing the SR9, it's where it is.

That is an AWESOME dog BTW. Son has one, our next dog for sure when there's room. Wife loves the merle coat.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I guess I don't get the SR9 being called inferior because it doesn't cost as much, maybe someone needs to enlighten me on this.
If you know how to shoot there is no need to blame the gun. This is not a cocky statement, just the truth.

 

[leejack]

I expect rock solid reliability from every gun that I purchase.

Many things affect the price. Ironically, reliability isn't always one of them.

Internet hype has contributed to keeping prices down on some guns and helped others to draw top dollar.

Lot's of good out there.

Lee

 

[Texasgunner]

I expect rock solid reliability from every gun that I purchase.

Many things affect the price. Ironically, reliability isn't always one of them.

Internet hype has contributed to keeping prices down on some guns and helped others to draw top dollar.

Lot's of good out there.

Lee

I agree -
I have a Daewoo DP51 that i'd put against any "standard" out the box 9mm as far as accucacy/dependabilty but its Korian/Military so most read about it & decide its a "$300 gun" at most - Would'nt take that for mine :roll:
This internet craze (short lived i'm sure) has really done wonders for the "word of mouth" thing :lol:

 

[waynejitsu]

I guess I don't get the SR9 being called inferior because it doesn't cost as much, maybe someone needs to enlighten me on this.

I don't believe it is inferior because it cost less no more than a Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic or Nissan Sentra was inferior because they cost less (many moons ago they cost "less")
The quality was the same, actually, I believe it was better "back when", however, word got out that you could not wear out one and reliability was through the roof, so prices go up..., based on REPUTATION for reliability and less cost, both for the initial purchase and maintaining them.

(you get what you pay for is a good rule of thumb, but not "law" or always the way it is)

If you know how to shoot there is no need to blame the gun. This is not a cocky statement, just the truth.

I agree 100%
I love my SR9..., I did not think I would, but I do

When purchasing, I compared it to EVERYTHING in the gun store (Huge amount of guns, I would dare say thousands, very nice selection. If you want to see a gun, that is the place to go, they have one)

Comparing everything there, I could have bought ANY gun I wanted at the time and went there with full intentions to buy a Walther PPS.

After checking everything out, I got the SR9.
IMO, it was a "Best Buy".
After shooting it, hundreds or maybe thousands of rounds now, I have had 2 FTF and BOTH was the ammo- Russian, bad primer.
Other than that, it is 100%.

"If" the gun was unreliable..., AT ALL, it would have been returned and I would have something else (I do not want a gun I have to "guess" if it will shoot or not)
That being said, I still have the SR9

(PS, the "reason" I wanted a "9" was 45's were eating through my cash and 9's are less than 1/2 price, plus the SR9 operates similar to the 1911 (I am a lefty and the thumb safety is basically in the same place, the mag release and the slide lock, so practice is a lot cheaper and I still have a "feel" for the 1911's

 

[ArmedinAZ]

I guess I don't get the SR9 being called inferior because it doesn't cost as much, maybe someone needs to enlighten me on this.
If you know how to shoot there is no need to blame the gun. This is not a cocky statement, just the truth.

CW, I didn't call the SR9 inferior because of it's price, didn't call it inferior at all. Just wondered out loud if we expect too much of a $400 gun. It looks like it comes down to expectations of the individual consumer. Especially if your gun runs 100% :wink:

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Didn't say you did but others have at a very annoying rate at times on this forum. Do you have a clue how many times I have heard someone blame a gun when it was the craptastic shooter all along? I own some pretty damn good and well regarded guns but my SR9 has been just fine thank you.

 

[proscene]

My SR9c meets MY expectations and quality ammo is the key

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Hmmmmm . . . new guy has good answer!!

 

[Rodney72]

Waynejitsu's "rant" was right on. I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't care if it's $400 or $4000, the end result had better be the same; bang. The way it handles, the finish, grips, those are all things that affect the price but the mission should remain the same. I spent a whopping $310 for my P95, and it now sits in my glove compartment and could be called upon to save my life or someone else's.

 

[snakespit]

For 400 dollars I expect perfection. :!: No penning, no trigger-reset issues. All the factory mags should work. Basically it should go bang every time unless it's filthy. I would not mind taking it apart to polish parts but I should not have to add aftermarket parts to make it acceptable. I think 400 is a lot of money. By the way what does this Ghost trigger sell for?