Doolittle Raid - 74 years ago today

[CGDustDevil]

Not much of a strategic strike, but it was worth its weight in attitude!

Lieutenant Colonel James H. Doolittle had always been a maverick of sorts in his career. He liked to be daring, thinking of military maneuvers that no one had yet done before. It was not surprising to see him taking on the task of lightening up B-25 bombers in order to allow them to take off from carriers. Beyond targeting the strategic manufacturing centers, he, like those in Washington D.C., wanted to hurt the Japanese morale, too. Doolittle's call for volunteers was met with ample calls. In Eglin Field, Florida, United States, Doolittle installed catapults in shortened airstrips, training the pilots to take off using as little space as possible. Landing was not practiced, as the plan was for the bombers to fly into friendly Chinese territory, where Chiang Kaishek's Nationalist troops would welcome them at airfields 1,100 miles from Tokyo. The pilots were not told of their targets, only that it was a dangerous mission which the rewards reflected the hazards. The pilots' only hint was that they were taught navy etiquette by US Navy Lieutenant Henry L. Miller; from this clue the pilots concluded they were going to hit a target in the Pacific. Most guessed wrongly at the Philippines, while Doolittle told them simply not to venture any guesses and keep their mouths shut, lest any spies began to piece things together. Interestingly, their B-25 bombers were parked atop atop USS Hornet, which was to bring them toward Japan, without any covering.


http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=26

 

[737tdi]

Well, you are right. It was a psychological win. Prove the US could reach out and touch the homeland. It was really the beginning of the end for Japan. It motivated the civilians, proved to the military that, yes we can, in fact, bomb Japan. Not to get to political, Obama is supposedly going to apologize for us beating them into submission. Argghhh, pissed. He wasn't alive and he is apologizing for something he had nothing to do with. It makes me puke. They started, we finished. Period. Done. Get over it. Oh how I hate the pussification of the current leadership. JMO.


Karl

 

[Selena]

When I first started volunteering at IVH one of the residents had served on a cruiser that helped escort the carrier for the Dolittle Raid. His story was that just before the planes were launched a Japanese ship found the group and his ship met it and fought it off while Dolittle and his airplanes took to the skies. Perhaps the brave sailors of that ship (the Nashville, I think) made no difference in the success of the raid or perhaps they saved it, not for me to say. But rest assured if Obama apologizes to Japan he will not be speaking for my TOB or me either. In fact, in his eyes Obama will be giving aid and comfort to an intractable enemy after the fact.

 

[Fox Mike]

I am confused about the "In Eglin Field, Florida, United States, Doolittle installed catapults in shortened airstrips, training the pilots to take off using as little space as possible." comment. To my knowledge, and from what I have read, they simple learned to get they RPM at max, use as much flap as they could, and haul back on the yoke. Why use catapults since at that time there were none installed on our carriers

 

[CGDustDevil]

I am confused about the "In Eglin Field, Florida, United States, Doolittle installed catapults in shortened airstrips, training the pilots to take off using as little space as possible." comment. To my knowledge, and from what I have read, they simple learned to get they RPM at max, use as much flap as they could, and haul back on the yoke. Why use catapults since at that time there were none installed on our carriers

Fox Mike - I believe the Hornet was fitted with hydraulic catapults.

 

[Fox Mike]

Fox Mike - I believe the Hornet was fitted with hydraulic catapults.

Here is a photo of one of the B-25s taking off. There is no catapult.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid#/media/File:Army_B-25_%28Doolittle_Raid%29.jpg

 

[mohavesam]

Balls of steel. Those were different times, different men.

With the first known act of "political correctness", FDR specifically would not let Doolittle target the Imperial Palace of the Emperor.
Think of what might have been if it was burned to the ground that day under the Raiders... :roll:

 

[Bob Wright]

Balls of steel. Those were different times, different men.

With the first known act of "political correctness", FDR specifically would not let Doolittle target the Imperial Palace of the Emperor.
Think of what might have been if it was burned to the ground that day under the Raiders... :roll:

Thinking was at that time that the death of the emperor would elevate him further in the god-like chain of command, making him a martyr and further solidifying Japanese resolve. One of Gen. MacArthur's first acts after the surrender was to humanize the emperor.


Bob Wright

 

[Bob Wright]

An interesting story about the USS Hornet: When President Roosevelt was asked where those bombers took off from, his reply was, "Well, they came from Shangri-La." For some time afterward the Hornet bore the name Shangri-La.


Shangri-la was a mythical place of paradise in a movie.

Bob Wright

 

[FastEd]

Fox Mike - I believe the Hornet was fitted with hydraulic catapults.

Here is a photo of one of the B-25s taking off. There is no catapult.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid#/media/File:Army_B-25_%28Doolittle_Raid%29.jpg

That famous photo is hanging in the A/F Museum.
It was actually the second B-25 in line.

 

[Rook]

Balls of steel. Those were different times, different men.

With the first known act of "political correctness", FDR specifically would not let Doolittle target the Imperial Palace of the Emperor.
Think of what might have been if it was burned to the ground that day under the Raiders... :roll:

It would have cost at least a million American lives and extended the war until every last one of the Japanese were killed had they killed the emperor. He's the only one that could have and did convince them to surrender. Otherwise they would have fought until their death no matter how many bombs we dropped.

 

[SAJohn]

As I have mentioned before, I had the pleasure of talking to Rex Barber some years ago while were we both in line at a local grocery store. He was wearing a ball cap with the Navy Cross insignia on it which is what got me talking to him. He told me that cap was a gift from his family so he had to wear it.

 

[CGDustDevil]

An interesting story about the USS Hornet: When President Roosevelt was asked where those bombers took off from, his reply was, "Well, they came from Shangri-La." For some time afterward the Hornet bore the name Shangri-La.


Shangri-la was a mythical place of paradise in a movie.

Bob Wright

Bob - You are absolutely correct. The movie was "Lost Horizons" from 1937 and starred Ronald Coleman, Jane Wyatt, Sam Jaffe among others. It's actually a pretty interesting film! Although it was nearly lost... There are parts of it that were lost and the 'modern' copies feature stills in place of the lost footage. Well worth a look!

 

[coach]

Well, you are right. It was a psychological win. Prove the US could reach out and touch the homeland. It was really the beginning of the end for Japan. It motivated the civilians, proved to the military that, yes we can, in fact, bomb Japan. Not to get to political, Obama is supposedly going to apologize for us beating them into submission. Argghhh, pissed. He wasn't alive and he is apologizing for something he had nothing to do with. It makes me puke. They started, we finished. Period. Done. Get over it. Oh how I hate the pussification of the current leadership. JMO.
Karl

I can't remember, but has Japan ever apologized for anything the did in the war? I think I know one presidential candidate who might say something like "and we'd do it again if we had too". Apologize for what, saving the world?
The bravery of those men should never be forgotten.

 

[Bob Wright]

t
One other little tidbit, if I may:

The B-25s carried extra fuel in five gallon cans. Not the usual "Jerry can" but in square sealed "tin cans". These had to be punched to open and the fuel poured into fill pipes. Crews were cautioned to keep the empty cans on board the plane. The Navy didn't want a trail of empty cans directing Japanese planes back to the Hornet.

And the Hornet's next mission was to deliver Army P-40s to North Africa.


Bob Wright

 

[Wyandot Jim]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance

There was another anniversary on Monday, April 18th. The 73rd anniversary of Operation Vengeance,
the shoot-down of Admiral Yamamoto, over Bougainville in the Solomon Islands. Sixteen hand picked pilots
flew their P-38 Lightnings to an intercept of Yamamoto and blasted him out of the sky on this date, April 18.

The last surviving pilot from this mission, Doug Canning (who broke radio silence to announce, "Bogies, 10 o'clock")
died this past winter at age 96. I had the pleasure of taking Doug to see Dinesh D'Souza's "America" a while back,
on his birthday, the Fourth of July. He loved it!

They don't make them like these old boys anymore, and America is the worse for it. God bless them all. - DixieBoy

This mission is without a doubt the best in Navigation and Timing that has ever been done. Remember at the time it was all by dead reckoning and radio silence. No GPS They also had to fly quite a few miles out of their way over open Ocean to keep from be spotted by the Japs. They were on target by one minute of their ETA.
More info and shows the route they took at 50' Incredible!!!
http://www.donhollway.com/yamamoto/

Little known fact. Ted Lawson author of "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo" forgot to lower his flaps for takeoff. His plane is the one you see that comes close to hitting the water. I don't know how the launch guy or someone didn't notice. His book is very good and tells what a hard time some of the crews had. He had to have his leg amputated while in China.
I also have another book about the raid that list all of the crews with pictures and it is signed by about a third of them. The last living crew member and Doolittle's copilot Lt. Col. Richard “Dick” Cole, lives in Comfort Texas and is 100 years old.
There has been a display case with a bottle of Brandy and glasses with the crew members names on them. The last two living were supposed to toast all of the ones that had Gone West. Don't know if that took place. Anyone know??????

 

[mohavesam]

For anyone who reads Craig Johnson - he keeps the Doolittle Raiders' flame alive through his character Lucian (the pre-Longmire Sheriff) in his stories. Lucian Conally was a Doolittle Raider B25 pilot, mentioned several times.

 

[RKB]

At their reunion in 2013, three of the last four (the fourth could not attend) opened the bottle and had that final toast, with all of them agreeing that there may not be two surviving at their advanced ages to fulfill the final toast.

 

[737tdi]

At their reunion in 2013, three of the last four (the fourth could not attend) opened the bottle and had that final toast, with all of them agreeing that there may not be two surviving at their advanced ages to fulfill the final toast.

That is heartbreaking to me. I don't think I could stand to be one of the final members. It would just be too emotional. Although they lived during a very hard time in our history, they also lived some of the best times in our history. Imagine surviving the hell of WWII, coming home, participating in the greatest economic rise of any country in history. My dad was a teenager during WWII but saw his brothers return home. Yes, they had problems but they continued their heroism in putting the USA at the forefront of technology, science, medicine, education. They did much more then just win a war, they won a nations future. To bad that most of the younger generations (including me) have a hard time understanding this.


Karl

 

[Wyandot Jim]

At their reunion in 2013, three of the last four (the fourth could not attend) opened the bottle and had that final toast, with all of them agreeing that there may not be two surviving at their advanced ages to fulfill the final toast.

Thank you so much for the info. I saw the case when there were still quite a few up turned classes. What a shame we loose heroes and most of the population don't even know.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

At their reunion in 2013, three of the last four (the fourth could not attend) opened the bottle and had that final toast, with all of them agreeing that there may not be two surviving at their advanced ages to fulfill the final toast.

That is heartbreaking to me. I don't think I could stand to be one of the final members. It would just be too emotional. Although they lived during a very hard time in our history, they also lived some of the best times in our history. Imagine surviving the hell of WWII, coming home, participating in the greatest economic rise of any country in history. My dad was a teenager during WWII but saw his brothers return home. Yes, they had problems but they continued their heroism in putting the USA at the forefront of technology, science, medicine, education. They did much more then just win a war, they won a nations future. To bad that most of the younger generations (including me) have a hard time understanding this.


Karl

Karl,
If you read the book by Brokoff /SP "The Greatest Generation " You will get a pretty good understanding of what our parents went through and why. My Dad was the typical WWII Vet. Come back to make things better and be a workaholic. As a kid of the 40s-50s we did without a lot of stuff because of it. That is the way it was. They did with so little they wanted it better for us

 

[flyerdoc]

Apologize? "Nuts", as one general once famously replied...here check out this article on Kerry/Obama
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/04/obama_apology_may_follow_kerry_hiroshima_visit.html

 

[737tdi]

Apologize? "Nuts", as one general once famously replied...here check out this article on Kerry/Obama
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/04/obama_apology_may_follow_kerry_hiroshima_visit.html

Well, kind of. It wasn't Apologize, which I suspect you may know. It was surrender.


Semper Fi:

Karl

 

[RSIno1]

The concept for the attack came from Navy Captain Francis Low, Assistant Chief of Staff for anti-submarine warfare, who reported to Admiral Ernest J. King on 10 January 1942 that he thought twin-engine Army bombers could be launched from an aircraft carrier, after observing several at a naval airfield in Norfolk, Virginia, where the runway was painted with the outline of a carrier deck for landing practice.

Low later became an Admiral. A lot of his Naval memorabilia was donated to the Sons of the Revolution Library & Museum in Glendale, CA.