Displeased with Federal's response after ammo problems

[Erich]

I don't usually gripe about customer service -in fact, my experience with firearms-related customer service - and reloading related customer service in particular - have been very good. But I had a bad experience with Federal just now, and thought I'd share it, because it was so unusual in relation to the service I've gotten on other ammunition issues.

So, yesterday I had brought a brand-new silver box of Federal Classic ammo to the range to try in my new-to-me pre-Model 30 Improved I-frame. The Federal Classic ammo was 98-gr RNL .32 S&W Long, part no. C32LB, lot number 3 19J155. Federal ammo is more expensive in this caliber than Eastern European stuff, but I figured the good thing about using big maker ammo from Federal would be that I'd be able to reload the empties. Based on decades of past experience, I figured I'd get quality brass after firing the low-pressure .32 S&W Long factory loads.

The ammo shot well enough (group at 10 yards), though was pretty tame (M 667.8/ES 78.95/SD 32.31).

But wait! Upon firing, I noticed that one round did a very odd spurt of stuff out of the bbl/cyl gap, and was surprised to find that I had to hammer on the ejector rod to get the rounds out of the cylinder. Out of five rounds, four split - and one had its primer pop out the back.

This was NOT the fault of the gun - I fired four other loadings on the same outing (two handloads - ironically in Federal cases, and two factory loadings by S&B and Aguila) with no problems whatsoever.

So, since this ammo wasn't going to give me the reloadable cases that I'd been after, I figured I'd contact ATK; on advice of friend, I went to their site and filled out a contact form:

Four out of five cases split on a new silver box of Federal Classic .32 S&W Long ammo, part no. C32LB, lot number 3 19J155. One primer protruded. The cases had to be forcibly extracted by hammering the ejector rod. This was not a problem with the gun, as several other loadings performed flawlessly.

Here are some photographs:

i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/2013-03-10_11-34-34_709.jpg

i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/2013-03-10_11-34-51_820.jpg

I deliberately purchased what I thought to be quality Federal ammo because I wanted the spent cases for reloading. Please contact me about this.

I was really surprised when Federal wrote back a terse, "Go Away" email:

You bought old ammo, it has been sitting on the shelf. The brass split due to stress corrosion cracking. It was manufactured in 2003.

Thanks
Federal Ammunition

I was pretty amazed by this, and responded:

Are you kidding me, or are you just insulting me? I've been happily reloading much of the same brass since the '80s, and you're going to tell me that your new, never-fired brass from only ten years ago will split when fired in a low-pressure factory loading in the .32 S&W Long cartridge.

I've not heard back. I'm not pleased with Federal/ATK's handling of the situation; I would have expected that Federal/ATK would stand behind its products or care more about its customers.

 

[SweetWilliam]

That response would've made me mad all so.
In my eyes it doesn't matter if factory ammo is 10yrs. old or 20yrs. old it sure shouldn't have done that. So what they are saying is that Federal Ammo has a shelf life??? If that's the case they should put an experation date on all their ammo boxes & when it expires you should be able to send it back for a refund.
This is redictulous & the response you recieved back is a joke.
And if you want to copy & post my response in your next email you have my permission.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Oh Cripe, I think some of my ammo may be over-ripe as we speak. :evil: :evil:

 

[Erich]

Thanks, gents - a friend who knows people very kindly offered to intervene with Federal to try to get me made whole, but I turned him down because think it's important that hobbyists see how they can expect to be treated when they have problems with an ATK product.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Can someone help get me up to speed on this stress corrosion cracking thing?

10 years is hardly an unusual shelf life for ammo, and it seems to me IF the brass was corroded sufficiently to crack it, the OP might have noticed something odd. What am I missing?

Rick C

 

[SweetWilliam]

That was my point to. If federal wont stick behind 10yr. old ammo I won't be buying any. A couple of weeks ago I shot some of my reloads that were 20yrs old with no problems. And I'll bet they'll be good in another 20yrs.

 

[Erich]

It wasn't corroded in any way - I've still got 20 rounds of the 25-round box that I'm stuck with.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I had the exact same situation with some .32 H&R ammo from them, but in a slightly different manner.

I bought a new box of ammo, fired it without anything unusual happening, and then cleaned and reloaded them with less-than-magnum charges. I put these in my ammo cabinet for nearly a year and then decided to fire them. Upon taking them out of the box, I discovered that all -- all -- of them had split cases. These were not "abused" in the reloading process and were certainly not split at that time.

I fired them, and they all went "bang" but with a large variation in performance which I fully anticipated.

I contacted Federal and told them about what I had observed. They told me that the cases had split from "corrosive fatigue" and that I had obviously contaminated the cases with ammonia! Absolutely not true. There are no ammonia-containing materials in my reloading/shop area . . . none. The original fired cases had been cleaned by tumbling in pure crushed walnut shells that have cleaned many cases before and since. They offered me no satisfaction whatsoever, and were, in fact, kinda snotty about the whole thing.

I have since read of several similar instances. Apparently Federal had a problem with their brass for a while. I haven't bought any Federal stuff since.

JMHO

 

[gmartinnc]

There is something about that brass that isn't right. You still have the unfired rounds for evidence but I don't know what to advise you to do with them. Sounds to me like a recall is in order and Federal knows it, but are hoping it will go away.

 

[mattsbox99]

What a cheap reply from ATK/Federal. I've shot plenty of old military 30-06, Greek HXP that is at least 40 years old still goes bang every time and it happens to be more accurate than new production ammo.

 

[SweetWilliam]

It has to be defective brass. Why would those primers back out that way? Loose primer pockets on new brass?
It looks like brass that was loaded beyond max, and loaded 20 times.

 

[Erich]

You know, I recall that sometimes primers back out when pressures are too low - you ever fire those primer-only wax bullet loads?

The cracks are what bothered me, though. And the absolute indifference of the reply to the fact that I deliberately chose their ammo thinking that the brass would be good to reload.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Hmmmmm.

Bad brass = no reloading = must buy new ammo.

Hmmmmm.

Yeah-yeah . . . I know . . . paranoia much??

 

[6gun]

There is nothing corrosive in the ammo, plain and simply bad brass or loaded with to high of presser, ATK also owns RCBS which has top notch service wonder what the problem is in the Federal part of the company? I think I would ask the person at Federal who their supervisor is and ask to speak with them and see if you get the same answer could be one jerk employee and maybe not the whole company that gives poor service.

 

[loaded round]

My suggestion would be to search the net (Google?) to find a Federal/ATK CEO or similar officer and write him a polite letter or email and include your original response. I'm certain that you will get a quite different reponse. It has worked for me twice, but never contacted Federal/ATK however. Good luck to you.

 

[mattsbox99]

My spidey sense would lean towards this being a case of improperly annealed brass. I had some Winchester .204 Ruger brass that split the necks on the first firing. Winchester replaced the brass and I had no more problems. I kept the "extras" back when they still gave you one or two extra pieces in a bag and annealed those and did not have any split necks.

 

[Erich]

I appreciate all the supportive posts, folks. A friend who knows people offered to bring the matter to the attention of bigwigs at ATK/Federal, but I'm kind of beyond trying to get myself made whole - it's just not that big a deal. On the other hand, the shooting fraternity ought to know about 1) the problem with the brass and 2) the remarkably uncaring attitude about this product's not being fit for its intended purpose.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

We see problems like this with brass from time to time and with different manufactures. I am surprized Federal didn't offer to replace the ammo. Perhaps the representative was having a bad day and his first reply to anything was TS.

Now if you had several boxes it would be worth sending it back to them, otherwise I would just shoot it up and throw the brass in the recycling bucket.

 

[Erich]

I think that's what I'm liable to do, Jimbo - just shoot it and plan on throwing the brass. Oh well . . .

 

[Ruger Packer]

Back in the mid-80's when the Ruger Single-Six came out in .32 H&R mag, I got one along with two 50 round boxes (the red box) of ammo. Shot it all the same day and noticed some of the cases were split. I wrote Federal a letter and sent all 100 pieces of brass back with the letter. About two weeks later I got 4 boxes of new brass (200 pieces) and a letter apologizing for the quality and thanking me for bringing it to their attention.

Its 30 years later and I'm still reloading those 200 pieces of replacement brass.

I think you're making a mistake in not letting your friend intervene on your behalf.