Carrying 6

[writwing]

How real are the chances of an AD if you carry one in the chamber with the hammer down on a US Firearms SA?

 

[ElrodCod]

Depends on the odds of it landing on the hammer if dropped. $hit happens, it's not worth the risk for the sake of one round.

 

[DeletedMember275]

Seems like Elmer Keith wrote about things like a stirrup slipping off the saddle horn and striking the hammer of SAA Colts and causing ADs while tightening the cinches on his horse that made him a believer in only loading five.

Murphy's Law being what it is, the only part of a revolver that will hit the ground when it's dropped are the hammer, or possibly the sights.

Since none of us is likely to become involved in a gunfight with our SA revolvers, why take the chance? What are the odds of an AD? Probably not very high. What are the odds of that bullet striking someone or something that you dearly wish it hadn't? Probably very high.

 

[street]

The chances of hitting the lottery is what 15,000,000 to one? Someone hits it every few weeks. 15,000,000 to one!!! Do you play, if so you are taking a chance that you are going to hit and it only cost you a dollar. I don't know the odds of a AD but you are not taking a chance for a dollar, it's your life that you are betting, or a loved one. Think about it. Is it worth it to take a chance just for one extra shot. If it's that important to have that extra shot, buy a second gun. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I would say the chances of a unwanted discharge are just too great to justify that extra round. Im such a worry wart that I even carry the transfer bar equipped Rugers with a empty chamber under the hammer, just a habit I guess.

 

[J Miller]

If you feel you just must carry six at all times, buy a New Vaquero or New Model Blackhawk. Lots of choices there, and there is no question of the safety factor.

If you just don't think the chances of an ND are really high enough and are questioning us to see what we'll say, well:

LOAD ONE, SKIP ONE, LOAD FOUR, PULL THE HAMMER BACK TO FULL COCK THEN LOWER IT ON THE EMPTY CHAMBER.

Then your US Firearms SA is as safe as a New Model Ruger.

Joe

 

[flatgate]

There are enough examples of "things going wrong" that it's, IMHO, foolish to even consider carrying "six" in a traditional sixgun.

flatgate

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

The chances are very real. Ruger completely redesigned their entire single action line of revolvers to the current transfer bar design in the 1970s specifically because they lost at least one very expensive law suit after an accidental discharge with one of their old 3 screws.

I remember reading in one of the gun mags an account of the writer showing up at a range to find a man lying in a pool of blood, shot in the chest with his own revolver. The man died.

It has been a well known fact since the first SAA was produced in 1873 that even with the hammer set at the so called 'safety notch' a strong blow will either shear off the sear, or snap off the overhanging lip of the 'safety notch'. In that situation, an AD is almost guaranteed. Take a look sometime at the hammer and sear on a Colt or other colt style action. The geometry of the parts is such that they are not very strong. It does not take too much to break the 'safety features' clear off. Not just by accidentally dropping it either. You know how cowboys throw one stirrup over the saddle while they cinch it up? A heavy stirrup falling just right on the hammer of a holstered SA can cause it to discharge too. Happened plenty of times.

This was so prevalent that early in the 20th Century most Double Action revolvers incorporated mechanisms specifically designed to prevent this type of accidental discharge. Iver Johnson even had their 'hammer the hammer' logo demonstrating how in contrast to the single action revolvers of the day, theirs was safe to wallop the hammer with a hammer.

 

[COLT_45]

Trust Me-Don't Do It With A Colt or USFA SA - Get Yourself A New Vaquero. Alot less expensive than a funeral.....

 

[BearBio]

Years ago. in my previous (pre-biologist) life, I worked in the title insurance field. One day, I was instructed to teach another searcher how to abstract a court case to determine whether it would/could affect title to real estate.
I took him to across the street to the archives for the L.A. Superior Court and grabbed a file at random from the "put back" cart.

It was the originally testimony by Bill Ruger and others on the lawsuit concerning someone dropping a SAA Colt and shooting himself in the leg. Seems the weight will cause it to land on the heel of the grip frame and then rotate back onto the hammer. So, it isn't random but a factor of the design.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Seems the weight will cause it to land on the heel of the grip frame and then rotate back onto the hammer. So, it isn't random but a factor of the design.

Whoa. Not hardly. I do not advocate carrying any SA revolver with the colt style mechanism loaded with a live round under the empty chamber, but that is just incorrect.

Any object released to free fall will remain in the exact same position it was released in unless

A. There are significant features on it to aerodynamically change its attitude, like fins on an iron bomb, and

B. There is enough time for said features to do their work. An iron bomb dropped from ten feet is not airborne long enough for the fins to point it down.

For a short distance, such as the distance from a man's hand to the ground, what is more significant is the amount of spin imparted to the object at the moment it is released. Most probably, the majority of ADs happening with dropped SA handguns had just enough spin when released to rotate them so the hammer struck the ground first. Or there was enough spin that if the grip struck first, the gun then rotated around and the hammer struck the ground hard enough to discharge the weapon.

Its like the old thing about why does toast always land on the ground butter side down. Nothing to do with aerodynamics, or the extra weight of the butter on one side. There is simply enough time for a buttered piece of toast to flip over once before it reaches the ground.

 

[mattsbox99]

Rugers always land on the front sight.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Load six when going to meet trouble gun in hand....Otherwise never. (Keep money to bury ya in the empty hole :shock: )

Worked in the old west.. :wink:

 

[contender]

The lawsuit Ruger lost was due to a lawsuit about the OM's and AFTER they had built the NM's. The judges ruling was along the lines of; "Ruger knew he had a defective product because he built the New Model to correct it. It wasn't about someone getting shot with an OM before the NM's were built.

But to add to all the others, in ANY SA that the design allows direct contact with the firing pin and the primer, KEEP AN EMPTY CHAMBER UNDER THE HAMMER.

Remember; SAFETY FIRST!!!!!!!!

 

[gak]

Good thread. My NM Rugers are for using, the SAA-designs for admiring and more occasional use, and then with 5 loaded only--always. Then...along the lines the one gent said about being a worry-wort, with a healthy dose of paranoia I frequently still check that the empty chamber's aligned correctly.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Using the transfer bar system I feel completely safe carrying a Ruger single-action or double-action revolver with a fully loaded cylinder. I can't say that about other guns though. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[Cholo]

On a similar topic, one of our members related the story about dropping an OM Ruger and getting shot pretty badly. We all need to realize that it can happen to us if we choose to carry a live cartridge under the hammer of an older SA design.

www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=102169&start=0

 

[CraigC]

It is stupid beyond words to even consider carrying a traditional single action with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. Or to make it a habit of relying on the safety notch.

 

[BearBio]

Seems the weight will cause it to land on the heel of the grip frame and then rotate back onto the hammer. So, it isn't random but a factor of the design.

Whoa. Not hardly. I do not advocate carrying any SA revolver with the colt style mechanism loaded with a live round under the empty chamber, but that is just incorrect.

Any object released to free fall will remain in the exact same position it was released in unless

A. There are significant features on it to aerodynamically change its attitude, like fins on an iron bomb, and

B. There is enough time for said features to do their work. An iron bomb dropped from ten feet is not airborne long enough for the fins to point it down.

For a short distance, such as the distance from a man's hand to the ground, what is more significant is the amount of spin imparted to the object at the moment it is released. Most probably, the majority of ADs happening with dropped SA handguns had just enough spin when released to rotate them so the hammer struck the ground first. Or there was enough spin that if the grip struck first, the gun then rotated around and the hammer struck the ground hard enough to discharge the weapon.

Its like the old thing about why does toast always land on the ground butter side down. Nothing to do with aerodynamics, or the extra weight of the butter on one side. There is simply enough time for a buttered piece of toast to flip over once before it reaches the ground.

1) If a person is drawing/pulling a gun from a holster, the handle would be lower than the barrel.

2) If a gun "fell" out of the holster, the handle would be falling first. This would also be influenced by "drag" (frictional coefficient) as the barrel left the holster.

3) If a piece of toast has time to rotate ("flip"), why wouldn't a pistol? Since initial velocity is zero and acceleration would be the same (32 feet per second squared), they would hit at the same speed. If it took one second to go from hand to floor, both would hit at 32 ft per second (32x1x1). The force would be different as that is mass times velocity. The pistol (assuming 3 lbs) would initially hit with 96 foot pounds of energy (3 x 32) and the toast (assuming 2 ounces) would hit with 4 foot pounds (2 x 32 divided by 16 = 64 ounces). Admittedly this ignores air buoyancy but that would be negligible.

 

[mindustrial]

Two have slid out their shelf in the safe, they both landed on the rear sight blade on the metal door edge. Lucky, that is a replaceable part.

 

[welder]

I knew a man when I was in my late teens who wore a scar in his mid section where a .22 Bearcat left it's mark. He told me he kept it on a shelf in his closet and once while retrieving a box it was setting on, he dropped it. He was wearing the belt that had the notch cut out where the bullet went through as he told me the story. He was lucky, some surgery to repair his lower innards and retrieve the little slug, and he was good as new.

 

[forindooruseonly]

It's bad enough to have an accident and shoot yourself, but imagine shooting someone else? It is not worth the risk, as noted many times above. At worst you kill someone or yourself, or even if they survive, you could face lawsuits, ect.

Load 5.

 

[sigp220.45]

The brother of a cop I know carried an Old Model .45 Blackhawk in a cheap shoulder holster while ice fishing. He bent over to clear ice from the hole, the gun slid out, hit the ice next to the hole, and discharged. The bullet hit him under the chin at an upward angle with the expected results.

 

[Rclark]

Conversations like this remind me why Ruger 'had' to add the transfer bar.... I like the old action, and 5 in the field is just fine with me.... I understand it, and respect it, and don't wonder about 6. When I get a SAA, I will want it without a transfer bar. Load 1, skip 1, load 4 more is just dandy!

 

[Hondo44]

How real are the chances of an AD if you carry one in the chamber with the hammer down on a US Firearms SA?

Looks like you got unanimous responses, a rare occurance on the forum!

Think about how many times things just fall or get dropped unintentionally or someone gets bumped? And then think about the fact that when wearing the gun a person is moving all around.

So let's analyze the odds:

When it falls the chance of landing butt down is almost a lead pipe cinch;

When it does an AD is virtually certain. That's the short answer to your question.

But to analyze further:

Whether or not the bullet hits the gun carrier or someone else if anyone is near, odds are clearly in favor of hitting the carrier since the gun barrel will be pointing up at them and are even greater of hitting them or another person.

Frankly with those realities, one would be safer to play russian roulette with 3 chambers loaded!!

At the height of the Ruger law suit craze, Bill Ruger was quoted as saying they budgeted $1,000,000 every year for law suits and that was way back in the '70s when that much money was worth a whole lot more than now.

I recognize that you didn't say you were, but personnaly I wouldn't even think about doing it.

 

[32magfan]

I do not own any SAA's or clones but I did buy Dad a Cimmaron 32-20 a few years ago. He loves it but only loads 5 in the 1-Skip-4 sequence.

I know of a fellow here in Kentucky back in the 80's that carried 6 in a Colt SAA around the farm. In the course of the daily chores, something hit the hammer and the gun fired in the holster. The bullet hit his thigh and shattered his femur. He almost lost his leg. :shock: 18 months of rehab to walk with a noticeable limp. No thanks, I'll buy NM Rugers or carry 5 in an SAA or clone.

Buy a transfer bar SA or carry 5: Anything else would be foolish IMO.

BTW, It always bothered me when the Cowboys in the movies drew and cocked their Colts and then when the "threat" was over they let the hammer down and re-holstered on a live round. They should index the cylinder back around to let the hammer down on an empty chamber. Important to remember when shooting this type of handgun.

Shoot safely and have fun,

32Magfan