Bench vs. Offhand

[S3]

OK, this has me completely perplexed.

So I got my .45 Colt Bisley back from Ruger last week. This weekend, I went to the range to test it out. I have a bear hunt coming up next month, so I wanted to try it with 265 gr WFN's and 300 gr LFN's over H110. I also had some light 200 gr/Unique loads with me.

Shooting three shot groups through the chronograph, velocity was completely in line with what I'd expect. I was shootingt off of a sandbag, just resting the front of the frame on it and resting my forearms/wrists on a folded up blanket.

I figured the sights would need to be adjusted, but was I in for a surprise. The first three shots I fired had about two feet between them at 25 yards. As I continued to shoot, bullets were flying everywhere. Before I had this gun "fixed," I was able to shoot offhand groups of 4-5 inches at 25 yards. There was literally feet between the holes in the paper.

When I got home, I loaded up a bunch more ammo and went back to the range this morning. Once again, shooting off the bags, bullets were flying every which way.

In frustration, I thumbed back the hammer and took an off-hand shot which landed inside the 9-ring on the target. Another offhand shot landed about an inch from the first. I emptied the cylinder and printed out about a four inch group, centered right where I wanted it.

I know that shooting off of a rest can change the point of impact, but has anyone ever had it mess up accuracy before? It makes no sense to me, as shooting off the bags has to be steadier than offhand. All I can think of is that my bench form must be really bad!

Pete

 

[Cholo]

"All I can think of is that my bench form must be really bad!"

That's all it is. You're consistant offhand, inconsistant off a rest. The key is to sight in and practice where you're most likely to use it in the field on your bear hunt.

 

[c.r.]

Welcome to the forum

I tend to get large "patterns" (aka groups) anytime i let any part of the revolver touch something when bench shooting. the only way i can get consistent groups off a bench is with only my forearms resting on anything.

especially the butt of the gun resting on a sandbag. it just doesn't work for me.

maybe try shooting from the bench with only your forearms supported.......just to see if this changes anything.

just a thought.
~c.r.

 

[BlackEagle]

Practice dry firing with the gun supported. You should have much more concentration on your trigger pull when using a rest, and you should be able to see the sights moving around that much when you are dry firing.

 

[mt]

+1 what c.r. said.

mt

 

[S3]

Thanks guys. One thing I forgot to mention was that in between shooting off the bench and shooting offhand, I fired about a dozen rounds sitting from a back supported position, forearms resting on my knees. While that gave me better results than the bench, it was still "patterning" rather than grouping. I guess shooting hard recoiling loads like that, I really need to practice consistent grip and squeeze.

Pete

 

[Cholo]

I never could understand "Pistol Perches" like the Outers I wasted my $ on. I never got any groups with either the butt or barrel restng on anything; fair results with the frame. I rest my elbow on a flattened sandbag, my wrists on a slightly higher sandbag and my gun totally unsupported except for my little finger barely hitting the bench. I've shot my best handgun bench groups this way.

It still doesn't take the place of practicing the way you'll use it in the field, but it's close.

 

[CraigC]

Sounds like something fishy is going on with your bench technique. IMHO, it takes a lot of concentration and practice to develop a good bench technique with hard kickers. I do as Brian Pearce wrote of recently, nestle the sixgun into a pile of sandbags (leather!) right where the barrel meets the frame. Let the forearms rest on the edge of the bench and the butt should NEVER contact anything. Especially if your pinky finger is wrapped under, don't ask.

 

[s4s4u]

One thing most folks do when going from bench to off-hand is grip differently. On the bench you don't have to hold the weight of the gun so your grip may be weaker if you don't make the concious effort to firm it up. Grip tension is paramount to consistancy. One other thing that can really screw up groups is resting the butt on anything, at least for me, especially with short barrels. I get my best results when I hold the gun with a normal two-hand grip and lower the frame onto the sandbag gently, just enough to steady my 49 year old hands. A bench zero isn't necessarily a hunting zero, so be sure to check your sights while shooting from your field positions, on sticks or pod, as well as off-hand, before the hunt.

 

[targetshootr]

I fired about a dozen rounds sitting from a back supported position, forearms resting on my knees. Pete

That's my best position but from a chair and with arms unsupported.

 

[Pal Val]

My bench procedure is to first get my grip as if I were to shoot offhand and then bring down my wrists to the rest. That way no part of the gun contacts the rest and the grip is consistent. I get good results that way. It may not look pretty, but it works.

 

[Montelores]

"Before I had this gun "fixed," I was able to shoot offhand groups of 4-5 inches at 25 yards."

Is this not the same as your more recent experience? Offhand?

What was done to the gun? What was it doing previously that needed attention?

I am really curious about the relation between offhand and rested shooting, especially the effects of recoil and velocity.

Thanks, and I hope you get it figured out.

Monty

 

[WESHOOT2]

I've enjoyed my Millett rest.

But POI is different for me when shooting from an unrested position, which is how I adjust my sights.

 

[Rclark]

I don't do very well bench rest either. When I do shoot this way, my wrists are what is on the bag/block with gun and hands hanging over. However I found just 'leaning' my arm against a post (or a tree) is how I like to shoot....

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Strangely enough, I have seen folks have a great deal of trouble shooting from a rested position. A different grip technique is one possibility. One thing that can really screw up groups with a handgun is having the butt contact a hard surface during before or during firing. Resting on the barrel rather than the frame also causes problems for me, but contact with any hard surface seems to be the most damaging to group size.

 

[Montelores]

New gun, first time at the range with it this week. A USFA 12/22, 7 1/2" barrel. Fixed sights.

As has been my practice with a new gun, I "bench-rest" first, to adjust the sights. By this, I mean that I grip the gun with my 2-handed hold, rest my hands (not the gun) on the bench, shoot some groups, adjust the sights (or, in the case of fixed sights, note any correction, if necessary), then shoot to confirm adjustment. Performed at 50 feet.

The 12/22 was giving me varying groups while "rested", although I did determine that it shoots about 2"-3" low from point of aim. After about 12 reloads (12 rounds X 12 reloads = 144 rounds), I became impatient with the wide groups.

I then fired off-hand, standing, two-handed hold, and at 50' got a 2 1/2" group (1 in the 8-ring, 4 in the 9-ring, and 1 in the bulls-eye), and at 25 yards a 3 1/2" group (7 1/4 " diameter circle target, 1 shot almost dead center). I was correcting on both targets by raising the front sight visually about 1/16".

The gun works very well off-hand, although I was concerned about the fixed sights. I will most likely file the front sight down a smidge (tough to do on a brand new gun).

I also fooled around shooting off-hand at the 100 yard berm on the rifle range. Correcting a bit more with the front sight, I fired at what appeared to be a 2x4 laying in the dirt. Of 12 shots, I hit it (no dust puffs in the dirt from the bullet) 3 times, possibly 4. 10 of the 12 shots were within 1 foot of the 2x4.

Anyway, this taught me something about resting the gun on anything. I will most likely continue my sighting-in regimen, but what really matters is how the firearm shoots off-hand.

Monty

 

[Short Barrel]

I bench rest similar to Craig C.I rest the front corner of the frame,just in front of the trigger guard,against a leather sandbag.My better hunting handguns will do 1" groups at 25 yds like that and the point of impact doesn't change when I shoot from hunting positions.