Anyone rebarrel a 77/44?

[Elric]

My apologies, the search function says "77/44" is not a valid search...

I have someone with significant health issues that can't use manly-man guns, or drag out deer anymore. Tom turkey is about the upper limit. He actually quit deer hunting during the 2016 deer season and went to the emergency room...

He now has a disabled hunter permit, so he can (finally!) shoot out of the window legally. He dropped a nice 8 pointer in 2017, which yours truly got to clean and skin in 20mph wind and temps of mid 20s....

He needs a scope. No pistolero or scout rifle with an EER scope. Can't use a lever or pump, as using the window as a rest sorta restricts him.

The 77/44 looks interesting because it is relatively light and short. Maximum range where we hunt is about 200 yards. I would like to rebarrel the 77/44 with a .357 tube and rechamber it in the .357/44 Bain & Davis... Why? The 357/44 B&D is the ballistic equivalent to the 357 Maximum... He has a 357/44 Encore rifle, which is heavy for him, plus opening the action in the cab will be difficult.

The 357/44 uses the 44 Mag case and necks it down at the front, so the body diameter and OAL of the loaded round fits into the 44 Mag dimensions.

I have heard of a 77/357 to 256 Win Mag conversion, but I want to go the other way. If I can get a new tube made for it, that would be good, second choice would be a 77/357 barrel that could be rechambered for the 357/44. Just not into a front sight band.... :?:

http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/Cast_Bullet/357-44_Bain-Davis/357-44_Bain_and_Davis.html

 

[JFB]

I understand the desire for that extra down range whop, but would the 77/357 be enough gun

 

[Alan in GA]

I would get a 77/357 (*and use full power loads 'as is' in 357 Mag). I've had both rifles (77/44) and thought many times about building a 357 B&D, in fact I even have a form die for it. One possible drawback to the B&D is the very short neck.
I'm guessing the factory 77/357 would fulfill the need, but maybe not quite out to 200 yards, more like 125-150(?).
Although I love the quality of aftermarket barrels, I think it also would be cool to have an 'all Ruger' 357 B&D using a 77/357 barrel with the chamber easily opened up to 357 B&D. I would have to find one as a take off though, as I also like keeping my 77/357 Mag 'as is'.
I really messed up not buying a pawn shop 77/44 for $325 - the only flaw was some rust only at the muzzle,... a perfect candidate for a rebarrel to 357 B&D!

 

[jjas]

Why not get something like a Ruger American predator in .308https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/6974.html. It's short, not too heavy and should do the trick. If your friend is unable to shoot standard .308 ammo, Hornady offers .308 reduced recoil ammo that is a breeze to shoot https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/308-win-125-gr-sst-custom-lite#!/.

 

[22/45 Fan]

Why not get something like a Ruger American predator in .308https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/6974.html. It's short, not too heavy and should do the trick. If your friend is unable to shoot standard .308 ammo, Hornady offers .308 reduced recoil ammo that is a breeze to shoot https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/308-win-125-gr-sst-custom-lite#!/.

+1 Since you are obviously planning to handload for the .357 B&D, just handload a .308 down to 30-30 power which will greatly reduce both recoil and muzzle blast. Your friend will have a much wider selection of suitable bullets and better range options than a .357 anything.

Now, if you are looking forward to this 77/44 conversion to .357 B&D as a fun project, forget the above advice.

 

[rangerbob]

Rebarreling a 77/44 should be a snap for anybody that does that kind of work. Or one could just get a 77/357 and open up the bolt face, rechamber, and use the 44 magazine. Another alternative, since you mentioned the 357 maximum, would be to simply rechamber a 77/357 to Maximum for the round in the barrel and a magazine full of 357's in reserve. A much less expensive way to go would be for your friend to acquire an American Ranch Rifle in 7.62x39 with an appropriate scope. Lots of training(practice) ammo available, not to mention really good hunting ammo perfectly suited to out to 150/200 yard shooting. Hardly no recoil and all the performance one could ask for the task at hand. My 2 cents worth! Bob! :mrgreen:

 

[Elric]

I understand the desire for that extra down range whop, but would the 77/357 be enough gun

The 357/44 is a short 357 Maximum that fits within the envelope of the 44 Mag. My usual stand is about 30 yards to the east, and if I had seen something within 150 yards, I'd sure be making noise with a 41 Mag S&W 657 with a 6" barrel.

My preference has always been a rifle. Easier to hold steady....

 

[Elric]

I would get a 77/357. I've had both rifles (77/44) and thought many times about building a 357 B&D, in fact I even have a form die for it. One possible drawback to the B&D is the very short neck.
I'm guessing the factory 77/357 would fulfill the need, but maybe not quite out to 200 yards, more like 125-150(?).
Although I love the quality of aftermarket barrels, I think it also would be cool to have an 'all Ruger' 357 B&D using a 77/357 barrel with the chamber easily opened up to 357 B&D. I would have to find one as a take off though, as I also like keeping my 77/357 Mag 'as is'.
I really messed up not buying a pawn shop 77/44 for $325 - the only flaw was some rust only at the muzzle,... a perfect candidate for a rebarrel to 357 B&D!

That would require a 44 Mag magazine, and either opening the boltface up to a 44 Mag case, or finding a 44 Mag bolt.

The rechambering would be straight forward. My #2 option after a new barrel... $325, where the heck is my wallet???

 

[Elric]

Now, if you are looking forward to this 77/44 conversion to .357 B&D as a fun project, forget the above advice.

Sorta yes on at least two counts. We do and have converted 44Mag cases into 357/44 cases. Not hard at all.

Downloading a 308 gives you a 308. Another cartridge to load for. Eh, not at the top of my list...

Fun project? Yup, that it would be, a 1.290 case length action (loaded, @ 1.590 OAL) replicating the performance of a 1.610 (loaded, @ 1.990 OAL) long case. The .308 Win OAL is about 2.800?

This is 'Murica...

 

[Alan in GA]

"... would require a 44 magazine..."
What I meant when I recommended a 77/357 is to leave it as is and load full power 357 Mag ammo.
I too would start with a 77/44 if building a 357 B&D. I would try to get a factory Ruger 77/357 BARREL to rechamber to 357 B&D and fit to the 77/44 action. If a factory 357 barrel could not be found, just go with a quality barrel blank as the 77/44 action is an easy one to fit to.

I built my Ruger 77 Mark II 458x2" using a take off Ruger #3 barrel in 45/70 to end up with an 'all Ruger' rifle.

Another project I've wanted to do is rebarrel a 77/44 with an aftermarket match quality bull barrel in same 44 mag, as the max diameter of a 77/44 barrel at the chamber is not that large to begin with and might result in a 'not too heavy' barrel if kept to 20"-22".

 

[roofinspector]

I suspect that most would equate the power of the 357 Bain & Davis to the 357 Maximum. As you know, one pass of 44 mag brass thru a B&D sizing die forms the B&D case pretty well. There has been two B&D's as I recall, only difference in shoulders.

I have not done a B&D on a rifle, but do have a B&D converted(extra cylinder reamed) S&W 27 with the 8 3/8 barrel, no problems with it so far and I like it. It has some zip if you want it. I have only shot in my revolver a 158gr as the heaviest, but do know that heavier bullets are out there.

Finding Ruger 77/44 or 77/357 parts might be difficult. Not that many out there and most guys think they have an instant collectable for some reason, if one peruses pricing a time or two on parts or rifles.

If I wanted a 357 B&D on a Ruger 77 two piece bolt series, I would choose the 77/44 and rebarrel using a name maker barrel blank. The barrel shank is simplistic as shanks go, so should not be too bad.

I like the B&D enough that I am pondering changing a 357 No.1 to that.

I think the procurement of the 77/44 will be the hard part unless you already have one in hand. The barrel blanks are out there in chrome moly or stainless, putting a barrel on these rifles is not difficult for any working smith.

The barrel length will give some speed advantage one would think over a handgun conversion in most cases.

Read the specs on the cases and rifles, ought to be fun.

 

[Elric]

No hits on the barrel shank thread, either pitch or diameter. Plenty of hits on threading the muzzle. For subsonic, I'd rather load down.

Pardon me, but when folks tell me that "any" gunsmith can rebarrel it, I cringe. Hey, Jo-Bob, grab a 1" round 1018 steel tube and make me a spankin-new barrel for ol' Betsy here....

I'm sure that pulling an existing tube would answer the pitch and diameter right away, but I would much rather have the blank delivered before the barrel is pulled. Much better chance for the smith to have all the parts to re-assemble it if everything is ready...

Twist? Length would be 18-21, sporter taper, maybe a bit heavier, but NOT a full bull....

Numrich does not have the Bolt Head, or bolt, available. I think the bolt face would be as hard as woodpecker lips.

Hmm, a rebated rim 44 Mag case. 357 rim, use 44 Mag magazine. Simple solution... Right?

 

[Alan in GA]

Well darn,,.. it IS difficult to find the thread/shank dimensions for the 77/357 and 44 rifles. I've got an action wrench and barrel vice but surely someone has these specs listed somewhere without me having to pull the barrel off mine! LOL !
You have rekindled my interest in these rifles with these posts. Now I'm thinking new match quality barrel projects, but at age 67 I just sold my two 12x36 lathes that made these projects affordable and 'doable' at home. I do have a couple of buddies with quality machinery that can do the work for me...... hmm...
Finding a factory stainless take off 77/357 barrel would make things interesting and easy for the 357 B&D on a 77/44 rifle idea. I have a switch barrel rifle on a Ruger 77 Mark II action already,... might do the same with these 77/357 and 77/44 rifles.

 

[22/45 Fan]

According to the Ruger web site brand new 77/44 and 77/357 rifles are available so if the $1000 or so entry fee isn't a concern, your raw material is available right now.

I wonder if a call to Ruger's Customer Service would get you the shank diameter and threading for these.

 

[pickerandsinger]

I just bought a brand new 77/44 built in Jan 2018 from Buds for around 715.00...Walnut stock, blued barrel...Did some trigger work and sight work ( a Henry peep sight will fit in the 3/8 dove tail and put a fiber optic on the front...Also adapted a rail Burris/weaver two piece with see thru ironsight rings and a crossfire with the red dot in the center of the cross hairs 3/9/40...The rifle supposedly weighs 5.2 pounds, 18.5 inch barrel...I love the darn thing...Shoots the bullseye out at 25 and 50 but a little low on the 100....I need to reload some appropriate rounds...I was shooting what I had reloaded for the Super Redhawk which were real light..( 8g or Unique , with a extreme 200 in a Mag Cartridge....Not what you asked but FYI in requard to the last answer of your post...Sorry if off subject....

 

[Elric]

Wow. Went to Bullberry. They do chamber for the 357/44, but... wait for it... about $550 for a stainless rifle barrel.

I always start off with the "ideal", and after the horrendous beating by reality, I might change my mind... For us old enough to remember the song about an attitude adjustment, it sure rings true....

 

[Elric]

I do have a couple of buddies with quality machinery that can do the work for me...... hmm...
Finding a factory stainless take off 77/357 barrel would make things interesting and easy for the 357 B&D on a 77/44 rifle idea. I have a switch barrel rifle on a Ruger 77 Mark II action already,... might do the same with these 77/357 and 77/44 rifles.

If your buddies can do good metalwork, me too!

357-44 Bain & Davis Floating Pilot Chamber Reamer
http://www.reamerrentals.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=357-44BD.f

Finishing reamer. If they can bore a chamber out of the 35 caliber barrel, this might fill the bill. No need for a front sight.

Wonder if the rim on a 44 Automag can be rebated enough to work with a 357 Mag boltface. Then it is the same boltface for a 256 Win Mag, 357, and then the rebated 357/44. Switch barrel mania.

GA? Any recipies for Peach Bread Pudding? Down in Columbus in '91, and a nice young lady put out a sheet tray of it... Western Sizzler? Almost 30 years, and it still makes me think of yuummm.