Another bisley grip question

[Sacramento Johnson]

Hi all!
I have a 44mag SBH new model and have found the standard plow handle grip tends to slip down in my hand when shooting 44 mag. (I don't have this problem with less powerful rounds, just 44mag.) I don't have the option to make my hand bigger or my grip stronger. I've tried different grips, but haven't done the ugly rubber ones, yet. Would going to a bisley grip frame decrease the likelihood of slippage?
If so, where might I be able to obtain the parts to make the conversion? Thanks!

 

[EDK]

Another option would to try and find a set of EAGLE GRIPS Gunfighter Model grips. They are slimmer and better contoured than factory. About $60 plus shipping. Do some looking on custom grips from various makers. Caryc makes a gunfighter grip that is some different from the EAGLE GRIPS model, but tries to achieve the same results in a different configuration. (I need to send him some money and a grip frame for grip fitting.)

I like BISLEYS...got a bunch of BISLEY VAQUEROS in 357 and 44 both. RUGER allegedly has changed its policy on spare parts....they don't have a bunch sitting in a warehouse anymore. Years ago I got both BISLEY and HUNTER grip frames plus hammers, etc directly from RUGER with no back order...it ain't happening now, according to most sources. Get on the list at midwayusa or brownells and wait awhile. OR be prepared to pay $200+ for a set of BISLEY parts in the white IF YOU CAN FIND THEM, $? for fitting and then re-finishing your gun.

IF you're not financially challenged....like most of us...go to gunbroker or gunauction and look for the BISLEY version of your SBH. They aren't that pricey yet and you can buy one cheaper than convert your gun! NOW you have some logical reasons to buy another gun...see how the logic works on SWMBO. In my case, I worked a bunch of overtime; took my playing money and bought a 44 BISLEY; then shipped it to Jim Stroh (ALPHA PRECISION) and he cut it to 5.5 inches and did a trigger job....back in the stone age when you could ship via UPS for less than $10 insured....1997?

By the way, does your gun have a XR3-red grip frame...4 5/8 or 5 1/2 inch barrels....or a DRAGOON (square back) trigger guard.

Lots of options. All they take is a pocketful of yankee dollars and/or a gunsmith...plus some hard to come by parts.

 

[Sacramento Johnson]

Hi,
I'm not sure smaller grips will help. I have used Eagle Gunfighter grips in the past on some 45 colt old model Vaqueros and went back to the standard dimension ones. Have also had some slimmer ones made by Caryc for the same; ended up giving them to a friend as they fit his hand better.
As I don't shoot 44spec/mag very often, I'd prefer not to get another gun, but rather find a way to make this one usable for those rare times I want to shoot 44mag. (Yes, it's the XR3-red grip frame, with a short barrel.)

 

[stevem]

Both the Bisley and Dragoon frame wack my middle knuckle. I had Jack Huntington do his gripframe modification to a Dragoon gripframe I had in my parts bin. He rounded the trigger guard and reshaped and extended the gripframe and made a set of grips. It feels perfect in my hand and doesn't wack my middle knuckle.

 

[Sacramento Johnson]

Hi Stevem,
I'm worried about that knuckle getting banged with the bisley grip also. I think I'll see if I can find a local shooter with a bisley vaquero and test shoot it with some peppy rounds and see how it feels.

 

[bigboredad]

Both the Bisley and Dragoon frame wack my middle knuckle. I had Jack Huntington do his gripframe modification to a Dragoon gripframe I had in my parts bin. He rounded the trigger guard and reshaped and extended the gripframe and made a set of grips. It feels perfect in my hand and doesn't wack my middle knuckle.

this mod has been getting rave review that have had it done. I'm not sure of the cost but I believe it would be about the same as if you bought all the parts to change to a bisley configuration. Also the Huntington mod is designed to keep your knuckles away from the trigger guard.

A cheaper and temporary fix would be to get some hogue rubber baby bumpers the ones with the finger groove. This will show you 2 things one if it sort of mimicks the Huntington mod and will also will also let you see if a longer grip would help

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

One solution to not getting your knuckle battered by the trigger guard is to not place your knuckle right behind the trigger guard.

Take a look at the shape of just about any modern semi-automatic pistol. You will never get your knuckle whacked because it is physically impossible to get a finger behind the trigger guard.

Unfortunately, revolvers are different, they are designed to have a finger on the grip behind the trigger guard. The standard Ruger grip pretty much duplicates the Colt Single Action Army grip, which in turn is the same as the Colt 1851 Navy grip.

I discovered a long time ago that if I leave about 1/4" of space between my knuckle and the rear of the trigger guard, it leaves enough space that the trigger guard does not strike my knuckle. The secret is to not try to cram the entire hand onto the grip. Instead, try holding the gun with the pinky curled under the grip frame. This frees up enough space so that the shooter can slide his hand down just a little bit on the grip, leaving that magic 1/4" of space between knuckle and trigger guard. Yes, this is just the opposite of what we have always been told about grasping a pistol. We have always been told to hold as high as possible, to help prevent muzzle lift from recoil. But it really is a moot argument if the trigger guard is whacking us with every shot and calling us to flinch.

The SAA grip, and the standard Ruger grip, was designed to roll in the hand with recoil. Once one understands this, it becomes pretty easy to grab the revolver low enough on the grip every time so the the gun rolls in recoil, and the knuckle does not get battered. At that point, it really does not matter how much the gun recoils, the amount of bullet rise will be consistent from shot to shot. It can be allowed for with fixed sights, and it can be adjusted for with adjustable sights.

I shoot Colt, clones, and Rugers with full power 45 Colt Black Powder loads. They may not have the same recoil as a 44 Mag, but it is still a pretty respectable recoil. When I first started shooting Black Powder in CAS I was convinced I would need the Bisley grip to help me combat the increased recoil. So I bought a Bisley Vaquero. I only shot it at one match, I discovered I preferred the standard grip and I held it as described. I do not hold a death grip on the pistol. That is a great prescription for flinching. Instead I grasp the pistol rather lightly, with my pinky curled under the grip, and that magic 1/4" of space between my and the trigger guard. I can shoot full powered Black Powder 45 Colt loads this way all day long, I never get my knuckle whacked, and because I keep flinching to a minimum I usually hit what I am aiming at.

Try it, you might like it.

 

[paochow]

I bought a set of the ugly hogue rubber ones for $14 and it was money well spent. They do a great job at giving me a better grip and make full power 44 mag loads easier to shoot. They are ugly and I really liked the look of the black laminate, but after a trip to the range, they are staying on.

 

[Sacramento Johnson]

Howdy Driftwood,
I have never been able to comfortably curl a pinkie under a SA grip. My hand is small enough that all the fingers comfortably fit on the Ruger Vaquero grip. If I stretch my pinkie to curl under the bottom, not only is it uncomfortable, but under recoil, it actually hurts, as the grip can then slightly slip down in my hand upon firing (2 fingers on the grip isn't a strong enough grip for me to prevent slippage), and stretch my pinkie finger even farther; Ouch!
I understand the concept of allowing the gun to recoil and have the barrel rise up, and allow my 45colt and 44-40 full BP loads to do so in my Vaqueros; I have enough hand strength (with 3 fingers on the grip), so that there is no significant grip slippage when I shoot these. The 44mag is a step up in power from those loads, and I think I'm going to need some ergonomic tinkering to be able to handle it, like a different grip design, or the hogues. The other option is to just avoid the 44mag and stick with 44 spec (unless something higher up the food chain is after me!)

 

[EDK]

Just because the casing says MAGNUM is no reason to load it to maximum levels. A lot of people, myself included, load mid range loads in the 44 and enjoy it a lot more. Your gun, wrists and hearing will last a lot longer if you do so. Elmer Keith, patron saint of handgunners, was quoted as saying he used 600 rounds of factory 44 magnum loads in the first year he owned one...probably in a Model 29.

Load the bullet of your choice to around 1000 feet per second for a good utility load. Use it for most of your shooting and either load or buy some hotter stuff to try once in awhile. A lot of people won't agree, but for a defensive field gun, I have a 5 inch 629. I love my VAQUEROS/BISLEY VAQUEROS and shoot them every day most of the year, weather permitting. I want a double action to save my hide...using a single action is too d*** slow and complicated in a stressful situation....like something getting ready to chew on me. A handgun is for surprises....a weapon of opportunity. IF I knew I was going to be in a situation, I'd have either an AR-15 or my M1A SQUAD SCOUT and enough full magazines to win the contest; more likely, I'd be somewhere else far, far away!

 

[MikeMcD]

Blackhawk is right... 1000 fps does most jobs, even defense stuff. I think, also, that the 44 with a wadcutter at 800 or 900 fps is a very decent indoors home defense option. Less blast and less penetration. Big Hole for intimidation. Any hear of any reports regarding big bore wadcutters and defense?