Ammo Ballistics Test

[GeorgeP]

I've heard so many stories about how ineffective small caliber bullets are. Recently, my friend and I did a very un-scientific test. We put 4 layers of heavy denim behind 8" paper plates and then shot them with 22lr ball & HP, 32 acp ball & hp, 380 acp ball & hp. The results were that every shot of every caliber when through the denim cleanly and continued the remaining 25 yard to the safety berm. It appeared that even 22s did not drop and kicked up it's puff of dust. The 22s and 32s had less than 3" barrels. The 380 was nearly 3" (LCP and Bodyguard).

Not scientific, but loads of fun....
George

 

[rich642z]

I have heard the same stuff on socalled MOUSEGUNS. I myself,wouldn't be wanting to stand in front of any gun that was pointed at me. There are true police stories that victims or criminals have been killed by them because they [ammo] have hit something vital.

 

[Gumby]

Didn't John Hinckley us a .22 in his attempt to kill Reagan? I recently read that Reagan almost died from all the blood he had lost. He was just lucky that he got to the hospital so quickly.

Gumby

 

[Code-Red-1]

A .22 cal round has been used in assassintions. Aim right and the .22 will enter a skull then bounce arround. No coming back from that, or a heart shot.

 

[jim52]

Which one again re-enforces the idea that it's all about shot placement...

 

[Code-Red-1]

Which one again re-enforces the idea that it's all about shot placement...

Agreed, when it comes to people, and most game, its all shot placement. Sure, some bullets will hit harder but where they hit is the most important...

 

[khutch]

Wish I could remember where I read this recently so you could look it up and judge its veracity for yourselves but supposedly in the civilian world the 22 LR kills more than any other caliber. You are more likely to be killed by a gun that your assailant actually owns than by the one he "should be using". Of course if you are in a position to shoot back I think you would prefer something larger....

Ken

 

[ArmedinAZ]

There's a world of difference between killing ability and stopping ability. You can probably kill someone with a .177 pellet gun with proper shot placement.

A self defense weapon is about stopping someone or something from causing you grieveous harm or death. All things being equal would you rather have a .22 or a .45 to get this done?

Of course any weapon is better than none, that's a given.

 

[Code-Red-1]

There's a world of difference between killing ability and stopping ability. You can probably kill someone with a .177 pellet gun with proper shot placement.

A self defense weapon is about stopping someone or something from causing you grieveous harm or death. All things being equal would you rather have a .22 or a .45 to get this done?

Of course any weapon is better than none, that's a given.

If I had 1 shot the .45 but multiple? I love my SR40 but my PMR 30 could easily get the job done...

 

[gatorhugger]

There's a world of difference between killing ability and stopping ability. You can probably kill someone with a .177 pellet gun with proper shot placement.

A self defense weapon is about stopping someone or something from causing you grieveous harm or death. All things being equal would you rather have a .22 or a .45 to get this done?

Of course any weapon is better than none, that's a given.

If I had 1 shot the .45 but multiple? I love my SR40 but my PMR 30 could easily get the job done...

I know I am in a minority, but never would I feel afraid carrying a .22
Even in the worst of places, if I did have to pull the trigger, EVERYBODY within 50 yards is going to be diving for cover or running the other way. That is stopping power. Gun noise just has that effect on people.
22's are very loud in little guns.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

There's a world of difference between killing ability and stopping ability. You can probably kill someone with a .177 pellet gun with proper shot placement.

A self defense weapon is about stopping someone or something from causing you grieveous harm or death. All things being equal would you rather have a .22 or a .45 to get this done?

Of course any weapon is better than none, that's a given.

If I had 1 shot the .45 but multiple? I love my SR40 but my PMR 30 could easily get the job done...

I know I am in a minority, but never would I feel afraid carrying a .22
Even in the worst of places, if I did have to pull the trigger, EVERYBODY within 50 yards is going to be diving for cover or running the other way. That is stopping power. Gun noise just has that effect on people.
22's are very loud in little guns.

How ya doing gator?

Thing is, there's probably only 1 imminent threat within 50 yards that caused you to fire your weapon. Who cares what everyone else in earshot is doing?

This is one of those subjects that a few think differently about and there will never be agreement.

I'm still trying to figure out the "ballistics test" using paper plates and denim. If I'm attacked by a pack of crazed paper plates it's good to know a 380 is up to the task. :wink:

 

[Elfego El Gato]

You can probably kill someone with a .177 pellet gun with proper shot placement.

True, dat!...

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/passaic_county_woman_killed_by.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2162904/posts

 

[rugerguy]

Nice job, good test, you had "fun"...and of course "your milage may vary"

as said above, shot placement, comfort, ease of carry, and just "how good are you with it...." :roll:

been carrying a .22 lr ( mouse gun?) for over 30 years, the very few times I HAD to use it for whatever purpose, did the job for me..........
its 'self defense,not going hunting OR into combat................ 8)

 

[khutch]

22's are very loud in little guns.

Until recently the only handguns I have ever shot were 45 ACPs. I just bought a Colt Scout and a Ruger Mark I from my father in law and I have taken them to the range once so far. Yes, they are indeed surprisingly loud and they actually kick! I would not dismiss either the noise or the muzzle flash from discouraging the "one person" you have to discourage. Even if he does recognize a 22 LR when he hears one he is going to be asking himself if he really wants to be full of 22 holes or if he would rather pick a softer target. In many cases he will choose the latter option. That is the best result no matter what caliber you are toting because if he decides to press his attack your survival becomes much less certain too. The best result you can get from any gun is that the mere sight of it sends the bad guy off to consider his other options.

Ken

 

[ArmedinAZ]

I would not dismiss either the noise or the muzzle flash from discouraging the "one person" you have to discourage. Even if he does recognize a 22 LR when he hears one he is going to be asking himself if he really wants to be full of 22 holes or if he would rather pick a softer target.

Ken

This sounds like you're describing a warning shot. In a life threatening situation where split seconds may very well mean everything you're going to add making the decision where to safely discharge your weapon (of any caliber) to warn your attacker? Good luck with that.

Wonder why Gunsite didn't tell me about SD .22s and warning shots?? :?

 

[axisofoil]

Gunsite didn't tell you about it because gunsite is here with us in AZ.

Where you go a little bit further south from them... and maybe a little bit outside of phx towards the expansive desert in any direction... and you may be inadvertently caught up in a combat zone before you know it.

Up in Ohio, probably not as many illegals or drug-runners that would just as soon kill you instead of giving you the chance to fire a warning shot.

I would not dismiss either the noise or the muzzle flash from discouraging the "one person" you have to discourage. Even if he does recognize a 22 LR when he hears one he is going to be asking himself if he really wants to be full of 22 holes or if he would rather pick a softer target.

Ken

This sounds like you're describing a warning shot. In a life threatening situation where split seconds may very well mean everything you're going to add making the decision where to safely discharge your weapon (of any caliber) to warn your attacker? Good luck with that.

Wonder why Gunsite didn't tell me about SD .22s and warning shots?? :?

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Yeah, you're probably right. Heading to Lynx Lake for the weekend, think I need something more than a .22 out there?

 

[khutch]

I would not dismiss either the noise or the muzzle flash from discouraging the "one person" you have to discourage. Even if he does recognize a 22 LR when he hears one he is going to be asking himself if he really wants to be full of 22 holes or if he would rather pick a softer target.

Ken

This sounds like you're describing a warning shot. In a life threatening situation where split seconds may very well mean everything ...

I am not talking about a warning shot and I am not advocating for the superiority of the 22 LR as a self defense round. If you feel that you need to carry a gun for SD then choose what you will, if I felt that need I would choose at least a 9 mm. If you are caught in such a situation without the weapon you would choose but there is a 22 LR close to hand then in the real world there are a huge number of cases where that would be sufficient. A bigger gun stacks the odds further in your favor so there is good reason to choose something bigger.

I don't feel that need. While I am not terribly old by modern standards I have likely outlived more than 90% of all the human beings who have ever lived already and I have never needed a gun to defend myself. Doesn't mean that it can't happen. Doesn't mean that I have anything at all against anyone who chooses to carry (I don't). In fact in Illinois none of us are allowed to carry and so most of us do not. And we don't die in vast numbers because of this even though it is true that in the majority of states that have allowed citizens to carry the gun violence rates have dropped a bit.

The only times I have been in any danger of being killed by gunshot have come when I was fully armed and utterly without justification for returning fire. I am talking about deer hunting season in the woods of Wisconsin when I was a boy. Several times my dad and I would be walking a trail and had to hit the dirt when bullets started whistling by. The worst occasion came when we were in a clearing between a deer that popped out of the woods on the far side and the, this is no joke, pastor of our church! That man was faster than you could believe with his lever action and would go berserk with buck fever at the sight of a deer. We barely ducked in time and I don't think we ever hunted with him again.

Ken

 

[axisofoil]

Yeah, you're probably right. Heading to Lynx Lake for the weekend, think I need something more than a .22 out there?

Depends on how stupid you're going to be.

Nothing more than that necessary to defend against 2-legged critters up here.

However, it IS the time of year that Javelina are raising their young, so leave them pig-lookin things alone and you will be fine.