A question for our aviators

[5of7]

I am curious about geese flying in that "V" formation that they seem to like. As a recovering bicycle rider, I know about riding close to the bicycle in front of you and the principle of so-called "pace lines" when riding as part of a team, but geese fly in a V pattern, not in a pace line.

Now, I have considered that since birds empty their bowels on the fly, they don't want to be directly behind the goose in front of them, but Somehow I can't believe that not getting splattered is the reason for this evolutionary trait.

So I am left with the conclusion that it must be an energy saving tactic and pilots would be the ones to ask. So, to you pilots here; what would be the advantage of the V formation? 8)

 

[Geoff Timm]

It is an energy saving practice, an ornithologist gave a lecture about how the geese switched out leads. One person in the crowd asked how birds could computer the positions required. The lady gently explained, the geese live in the sky and could feel the effect and know the flying was easier.
Geoff
Who thought that would be obvious, even to the Disney cutesy generation.

 

[mishtub]

very similar to the dolphins "surfing" on a bow wave of a ship at sea

 

[whichwatch]

I am curious about geese flying in that "V" formation that they seem to like. As a recovering bicycle rider, I know about riding close to the bicycle in front of you and the principle of so-called "pace lines" when riding as part of a team, but geese fly in a V pattern, not in a pace line.

Now, I have considered that since birds empty their bowels on the fly, they don't want to be directly behind the goose in front of them, but Somehow I can't believe that not getting splattered is the reason for this evolutionary trait.

So I am left with the conclusion that it must be an energy saving tactic and pilots would be the ones to ask. So, to you pilots here; what would be the advantage of the V formation? 8)

Please don't empty your bowels while riding your bike!! What exactly is a "recovering bicycle rider"?

 

[pete44ru]

It is an energy saving practice, an ornithologist gave a lecture about how the geese switched out leads. One person in the crowd asked how birds could computer the positions required. The lady gently explained, the geese live in the sky and could feel the effect and know the flying was easier.
Geoff
Who thought that would be obvious, even to the Disney cutesy generation.

IOW, geese fly in a "Vee" pattern so each goose can fly in undisturbed air, adding to easier flying.

If they flew one behind each other, the air in front of the following geese would be disturbed, requiring more energy to fly.



Now, you can think about which came first: the goose or the goose egg ? . :mrgreen:



.

 

[5of7]

Please don't empty your bowels while riding your bike!! What exactly is a "recovering bicycle rider"?

A "recovering bicycle rider" is an attempt to inject a little levity into the discussion. 8)

 

[5of7]

IOW, geese fly in a "Vee" pattern so each goose can fly in undisturbed air, adding to easier flying.

If they flew one behind each other, the air in front of the following geese would be disturbed, requiring more energy to fly.

Now, you can think about which came first: the goose or the goose egg ? . :mrgreen:

OK, but I can testify from experience that in a pace line, the riding is easier. And we traded places with the leader every so often depending on conditions. I always thought that it got easier because the air for those behind the leader was moving, to some degree, in the direction of the line. Geese, on the other hand, don't fly in anything resembling a pace line. 8)



.[/quote]

 

[SAJohn]

Bird flight is complicated because of the flapping wings. Wing tip spinning vortexes are generated. The birds position themselves a little off set from each bird in front to catch the updraft of that vortex. They also adjust their wing flap cycle. Induced drag is also reduced and all told the birds can almost double their flying range.

"V" formation aircraft flying can also increase overall range.

SAJohn, a tired and retired Aerospace Engineer

 

[Bull Barrel]

Geese cannot empty their bowels while flying as they tuck their feet under their tails.
This is why wherever you see geese on the ground the goose poop is everywhere.

 

[Bob Wright]

I've seen pelicans fly in an "O" formation, and snow geese fly in line astern formation.

My staid sister once observed that the goose at the apex of the "Vee" rotates his position with another goose at times.

Her observation? "Breaking wind is very tiring."

Bob Wright

 

[kmoore]

As someone who has spend 40 years with weekly trips for the 3 month season duck and goose hunting. I must say the release when flying. Very common on a large flock during take off to see S### fly. Over water some might think it's raining poop. Sometimes before landing, not so much seen as they are in the V pattern. Then they are flying to high for me to watch or care.

 

[pete44ru]

"Breaking wind is very tiring."

I represent that ! . :mrgreen:


.

 

[JFB]

I think "natural selection" would take care of the goose that let loose in front of the flock


Maybe the lead changes so he can go to the back and go

 

[32shooter]

Anyone know why the one side of the "V" is usually longer than the other??



Because there are more geese in it.

 

[5of7]

Bird flight is complicated because of the flapping wings. Wing tip spinning vortexes are generated. The birds position themselves a little off set from each bird in front to catch the updraft of that vortex. They also adjust their wing flap cycle. Induced drag is also reduced and all told the birds can almost double their flying range.

"V" formation aircraft flying can also increase overall range.

SAJohn, a tired and retired Aerospace Engineer

Well that explanation, at least, sounds sensible. 8)

 

[SamV]

Just saw something about this on TV the other day. The narrator explained that they can save as much as 20 per cent of their energy by flying in the vee pattern.

 

[Aqualung]

Geese cannot empty their bowels while flying as they tuck their feet under their tails.
This is why wherever you see geese on the ground the goose poop is everywhere.

This is not quite true, as I've experienced it first-hand.

The scene was Christmas, 2009. My father in law was letting me drive his brand new, limited edition convertable, 2009 Mustang GT. As we were opening it up on a MD back country road, a huge flock of snow geese took off from one of the fields. The flight path took them directly over the road and over us.

FIL: "I hope none of those geese have to crap"

Me: "I don't think they can sh*t when they fl...."

I didn't even finish getting the words out of my mouth when we were hit with no fewer than 25 "bombs" that splattered from front to rear bumper. Good thing the top was up!

That poor car was just plastered! We were laughing so hard, yet horrified at the same time....I had to pull over we were laughing so hard.

Then, we hauled back to the house to wash the car.

We still laugh about it.

Aqualung

 

[caryc]

OK, I give up. What is a pace line?

 

[Jeepnik]

OK, I give up. What is a pace line?

A single file line of riders. The lead rider does, in fact “ break the wind”. And I imagine sometimes breaks wind. The lead rider also sets the pace.

In racing, teams change the lead to give the former leader a breather.