#1B or V in .243?

[Yosemite Sam]

I'm considering getting a #1 soon. I have a #3 in .45-70 and it needs a companion. I have other rifles in .243, .223, and .30/30, and I load for them all.

I like the B and V models the best, as I prefer the beavertail forend. I think I want to get my #1 in .243. I do all my shooting from a bench, don't hunt, and don't shoot much beyond 200 yards, so carrying weight isn't an issue, and bullet weight not much more so. I do value accuracy quite highly, and have come to expect quite a bit out of my Savage .243 as well as my .223 with its custom made White Oak Armament barrel.

Did Ruger make #1Vs in .243? How about Bs? I can get a #1A Light Sporter on Davidsons right now, but I would prefer to find a used B or V that I can check the wood on, etc.

OTOH, if that is going to be a fruitless quest I might just spring for a new #1V in .223.

Does anyone do custom barrels for #1s? I'm thinking I could find something close in a used gun and rebarrel it, if need be.

Thanks for any info or suggestions,

-- Sam

 

[chilidog]

The #1V in 243 is hard to come by,probably less than a hundred made. A lot of #1 collectors are still looking for one so it would probably be pretty expensive if you found one.

 

[mattsbox99]

I'll be the first to admit that the No. 1 probably won't impress you at the bench. They just aren't sub MOA shooters, they'll shoot more than well enough to hunt with, and are a unique firearm. Even rebarreling and doing a lot of work to one may not yield a sub MOA shooter.

Now, you may get a tack driver as well, but most likely it'll be a MOA shooter. Both of mine are MOA to slightly sub MOA shooters if I do my part, but I hunt with mine so sub MOA isn't important. I enjoy mine for a lot of reasons.

The B .243 is much more common than the V, but keep an eye on the auction sources and see what pops up.

 

[picketpin]

Yosemite: As mentioned the 243 "V" is a rare critter. It was cataloged from 1982 till 1985 The best guess is that there was one "RUN" which would have been 100 rifles less whatever failed QC. We have the serial numbers on eight or nine. I paid $1200+ for one I bought off BG last year and it wasn't perfect.

That being said, the 243 "B" is the second most common caliber/configuration and has been made from 1967 right up till now. Not listed now as the "B" has been discontinued in the 2011 catalog.

There are lots of them out there and the prices are pretty reasonable.
Several on GB right now with pre warning barrels etc at $700+- a bit.

I bought a 243 "B" off GB in February for $650 plus shipping. The good part it was a 130-02xxx. The earliest barrels on #1s were match grade Douglas barrels. They didn't swap over to the Wilson barrels till 1973/1974. If you find a 243 "B" with a serial number below 130-05xxx it probably got a Douglas barrel.

I have two 243s in "V", two non prefix 243s and another early 130 with the Douglas barrel and all shoot well at or under MOA.

If you are looking for pure accuracy there MIGHT be better choices in caliber BUT as far as reasonable accuracy and hunting medium game or varmints the 243 would be hard to beat.

My buddy Dan still uses a non prefix 243 "B" as his primary varmint rifle.

As far as the choice between a "V" or a "B" I don't think it makes any difference. There are too many other variables that effect #1s.

I'd just look for a good used 243 "B".

The best

Ross

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

Frankly, spending money on one rifle, I would seek a 6MM and capitalize on the added case capacity.........Just saying........ 8)

 

[picketpin]

Michael: Me too, BUT he mentioned he already hand loads for the 243.

I think I even own a few #1s in 6mm Remingtons, a non prefix "B", 130-02xxx "B" the 132 "B" I got from you and a "V". ;-)

The best

Ross

 

[roofinspector]

Sam,

As in previous postings, the 243 No.1V would be available only for spec type money. Not too many made by the factory. The No.1B 243 is pretty prevalent.

The Ruger action is the same for all calibers/configurations. Everyone that makes aftermarket barrel blanks can make the factory tapers, usually at no cost if they have the taper in their database. With an aftermarket barrel, one can chose a lot of variables that the factory barrel does not offer for what that is worth.

Lots of folks never look past the factory offerings in rifles or ammo; some do.

If you can do your own work, the donor gun(500) plus a Shilen C.M. barrel (150ish), might fit your bill. The No.4 taper Shilen will fit the No.1B wood, whereas the No.1V taper is fairly straightforward on the lathe or just use the 5.5 Shilen in the No.1V forearm with a bit of wood work.

The No.1's are not on par with most bolt guns in accuracy, but have other attributes. A good barrel and bedding along with the trigger update/rework goes a long ways...........in most rifles.

If you only purchase factory rifles, they are out there. I personally like the updated rifle; as they say here I am not a collector type; but do enjoy this rifle type a lot. Really changing calibers in these rifles is not a big deal, caliber update is basically the barrel work and a new ejector(sometimes). I finished one a few weeks ago, a 17 bumble bee with ruger sights, Shilen barrel blank, and a rust blue job. Certainly not for everyone, the brass forming is a chore, but like most things, always wanted one, and the only way to get it was to do it.

Roof

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Thanks for all the well considered replies.

As to the .243's inherent accuracy: When I got my Savage I looked into various calibers and went with the .243 for the balance of commercial availability, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, case capacity, etc. It seemed to offer a very good selection, and I've done pretty well getting MOA and some sub MOA groups with the Savage. It particularly likes Nosler 95gr b-tips and IMR 3031.

What would be your recommendation for a truly accurate round? In general, not specifically for the #1 in this case. Yes, I realize this is a big question/can 'o worms type thing, but I am interested. I have been playing around with the idea of a 6mmBR barrel for my Savage, but as far as I can tell the main advantage there is the smaller case.

Now, as to the #1 itself: Thanks for the comments about inherent accuracy. I did know about their reputation, and that's why I ended up with a bolt gun when I bought the Savage. I should have clarified that in my original post: I don't expect my #1 to be a tack-driving one-holer. I'd be happy with MOA or slightly sub. My eyes aren't that great any more, anyway, and I have no designs on competition, etc.

I have a number of firearms, and I want the #1 for the elegance and uniqueness it will bring to the collection. It does have to shoot "acceptably", but I've learned that "acceptable" has different meanings in different guns.

I do have to ask: What is the #1's primary accuracy issue? It seems to me you've got a pretty solid lockup at the breach, and a tube. Is it wood/metal contact, chamber dimensions, or gremlins that keep it from performing at the level of (some) bolt guns?

From all the above I can gather that a #1V in .243 is out of the question for me, as I just don't want to pay a premium. The B is more likely. But then, what about the .223?

There happens to be a .223 V at Davidsons now, as well as several .223 Bs, and the price on the B is a good deal less than the price of all the other #1 models, for some reason. In fact, it looks like I can get a brand new .223 B for what some people are asking for used ones. But then, there's still that question of "new, factory" wood...

Decisions, decisions...

-- Sam

 

[mattsbox99]

The one thing that just can't be fixed is the atrociously long trigger sequence. The mechanics of it just don't allow it to be reduced. The hammer imparts a considerable amount of harmonics through the action and barrel. That is probably the single thing that drives people nuts about No. 1s. It doesn't bother me, because both of mine shoot just fine.

As to an accurate cartridge, I don't really know of a cartridge that is 'inaccurate' so whatever you pick will be fine. Mine are in 6.5x55 Swede and .25/06. I don't really care for the .243, but a .223 would be fun.

 

[picketpin]

The single biggest issue is the design. While the #1 may "Lock up tight" in reality the breach block is forcing the action AWAY from the barrel as you cam the action closed.. You are forcing a wedge between two stationary planes to lock things up.

IN contract a bolt gun is camming the surface together and getting the action/barrel junction tighter as you cam the bolt closed. Essentually, if the lugs are properly lapped and the action is true, you are making the action/barrel into one piece/homogenius as you close the bolt.

It just locks up tighter. Add to that the two piece stock of the #1 versus the one piece stock of a bolt gun.

Most #1s shoot well. The very best #1s will shoot as well if not better than MOST bolt guns. The best #1s will NOT out shoot the best bolt guns.

You can tune your #1 to reduce some of the issues, after market trigger, speed hammer and or a target hammer that has been lightened with a different spring to reduce lock time and hammer rebound/vibration. Some work better with a Hicks accurizer and pressure at the barrel tip. MOSTLY it's about barrel harmonics. Many #1s seem to be entities unto themselves.

I have 5 #1s in 243 Win. NONE of them use s the same accuracy load!!!
Some shoot the same load well. On the other hand in some the best load in one 243 "B" is is the worst in another rifle that for all intent and purposes looks identical.

Cousin Wayne and I both have #1s in 17 Mach IV. They were chambered and barreled by Shilen at the same time with the same reamer. I worked up the load for mine first. The assumption was that Waynes would shoot thee same load. WRONG!!!! Mine shoots IMR 4227, his shoot H335. Mine shoots 25 grain Remingtons and his shoots 20 grain Bergers. Mine uses a Rem 7 1/2 primer and his uses a CCI BR4.

Now we are talking the BEST load. Not one that works in both rifles.

It just depends what you are working towards.
If a guy started out with a well balanced cartridge and did the same things as he might do with a bench rest bolt gun including loading technique it's possible to get a #1 down under .500 groups.

My 22BR "B" which is actually a factory 218 Bee rechambered to 22BR (with the factory barrel) shoots into the .4s if I do my part. So does my factory (But tuned) 22PPC. The first semi custom #1 I had built was a 257 Roberts "V" in 1970. The work was done by Shilen using a 28" "V" barrel on the factory profile. It was designed specifically to shoot rockchucks with a 75 grain Sierra HP. The best group to date and the best group I've ever fired out of a #1 is .315 for 5 shots at 100 meters with that rifle.

So, they can be accurate. You can certainly re-barrel but frankly unless you are changing calibers/cartridges I'm not sure it's worth the time and effort. Sure I've re-barreled with custom barrels over the years but NEVER for accuracy. Rather it's been to get a cartridge the factory did not make and that a factory barrel couldn't be re-chambered for.

After all up until 130-05000 or slightly above the #1 was made with a match grade Douglas barrel. Some of the Wilson barrels were iffy but not many/all by any means. I have #1s from the late 70s and 80s with Wilson factory barrels that shoot as well as any of my #1s with custom barrels be it Douglas, Shilen, Hart, Lillja, Krieger ................................. The Ruger made, hammer forged factory barrels from the early 90s to date are uniformly good.

It really depends on what you want, and what you expect. I personally enjoy all the tinkering a reloading and enjoy all that's involved to get a #1 to work at it's optimum. Others don't

Bottom line it was designed and marketed as a premier single shoot big game/hunting rifle. It was never designed or thought of as a serious bench rest rifle.

They are however lots of fun.

Nothing wrong with the 6mm BR. On the other hand you could simply buy a 6.5 Creadmore "V" and tweak it a bit and might just end up with a tack driver. :-)

More information and loading and tuning tips over in the files section of the Ruger #1 Group on Yahoo.

Ross

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Thanks for the very detailed post, Ross! You can't ask for more than that.

6.5 C, eh? That was in my original thoughts too, but I moved away thinking about commonality. Maybe I should rethink that.

-- Sam

 

[BearStopper]

I only have one #1B and it's in 22-250. Bone stock it is sub moa easily. I dont shoot long strings but it will come darn close to same holeing with my handloads and three slow shots

 

[6mm Remington]

I have a #1B in 6mm Remington and I'm a much bigger fan of the 6mm than the 243, but they both are good rounds. I just prefer the 6mm as I feel it's a better designed case, has a longer neck, more powder space, and is a little faster than the 243.

I have a fixed 6x Leupold on my 6mm and had my gunsmith work a little magic doing some bedding on the front fore-end piece. It shoots consistently 1/2 inch 3 shot groups with it's favorite load when I do my part. Great gun and the #1B has to be one of the classiest rifles out there period. I love hunting with mine and shoot a lot of coyotes, deer, antelope, and have taken one spike bull elk with it and a 100 gr. Nosler Partition. I'll see if I can find some of my groups and post a photo.

I would get the #1B in 6mm!
David

 

[6mm Remington]

Here are two groups with two different powders but both using 100 gr. Partitions. Good things are possible, especially if you reload! Hope this picture works as I've never posted one on this forum yet.
David

 

[mattsbox99]

Thats a good shooting 6! I like the 6mm too, even though I don't own one yet.

 

[6mm Remington]

Thanks mattsbox99. I sure do like those #1's. I forgot too, come to think of it I have posted a picture before. I put a photo of my kid with his elk from this year with a .................. 6mm Remington no less. Not a number one, but a 6mm non-the-less!

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Could somebody please supply me with the Ruger model number of the #1B in .243? Since no "B" models are listed this year I can't find the info online. Having it may increase my odds of searching for one.

Thanks in advance,

-- Sam

P.S. I'm still considering the (NIB) .223 option, since I can actually get one of those. Opinions?

 

[mattsbox99]

If you are just shooting paper, the .223 would be my choice, lower recoil and cheaper to reload/shoot.

 

[DavidMc116]

On a positive note, 35 years ago or so, I shot pirmarily Belgian Brownings and Sakos. I somehow landed my first #1 which was a .270. It consistantly shot sub MOA with factory ammo. I have no idea if it was a Douglas barrel. I didn't own another #1 for 30 years as 3 precious little girls came into my life. The #1 would outshoot my heavy barreled Browning Safari in 243, but my Sakos would clip the Ruger.