Beaver tail, it not just for dinner anymore.
Depends on which side of the muzzle your on.
1911 recoil spring guide?
- Thread starter M118LR
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GunnyGene
Hawkeye
We were talking about the shooter, not the shootee.Beaver tail, it not just for dinner anymore.
Depends on which side of the muzzle your on.
Yaworski
Hawkeye
Oddly, I've never been bitten by a 1911. I'm either doing something right or doing something wrong.
Interestingly, I have a scar on my right (non dominant) hand, but not on my left hand. Go figure.
Paul B
Hunter
I've never had a hammer bite from a 1911A1. the 0riginal 1911 with the short tang of the grip safety could bite on occasion. There's a reason they made changes to the original 1911 and I think it's a better gun because of those changes. It's the Commander version that draws blood and bites the hand that feeds it. Just a simple change of the grip safety removes all chance of hammer bite.It seems to me that something that makes shooting more comfortable is worth doing.
PJ
PJ
Notice raised square on grip safety to ensure weak grip can deactivate. I've had more than one shooter fail to deactivate the flat grip safety on the 1911A1 AMT.
Different flavors, but in my opinion the S&W 1911 with external extractor is the most advanced of the group. YMMV.
The Kimber and AMT have Bomar Style adjustable sights. (Old School)
The Tarus and S&W have Novak sights.
Different flavors, but in my opinion the S&W 1911 with external extractor is the most advanced of the group. YMMV.
The Kimber and AMT have Bomar Style adjustable sights. (Old School)
The Tarus and S&W have Novak sights.
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Bookends of a distinguished service.
One of the very first issued in WWI and a clone of the last 1911 issued the M45A1
Neither has a FLGR.
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Beavertail grip along with raised square on grip safety. Enlarged operational controls, Novak Sights. Seems even the USMC requested some FLUFF on their peanut butter pistol? LOL
Does that make the M45A1 a Fluffernutter?
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Externally this one is a 1911. I'm not sure what lock works Colt used as a base. But it doesn't bit me. Then again, my hands aren't what you would call fleshy.
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Easy test. Take a small punch. Push the firing pin if it moves there isn’t a firing pin block. So series 70.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
No. And I've never seen one on any 1911's.
I too have never been bitten by the raging malevolent hammer, in fact I put a standard thumb spur hammer and zero beaver tail on my light weight officers with no ill effect. With hot loads the hammer touches my web but does not grab and bite. Note, I put skateboard tape on the front strap and that cheap hack makes for a very easy to control 1911.
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DGW1949
Hawkeye
And when they did, the stuff that they wanted also did away with some of JMB's intended design features....To start with, a beartail safety almost prevents your 1911-style pistol from being thumb-cocked, and absolutely prevents the hammer from being lowered with one hand...The "raised square" that you speak of is only needed by those that don't care to learn how to properly hold the pistol, or those that try to force it into too high of a position thinking that doing so will somehow enable them to shoot better. And BTW, too high of a grip causes hammer bite...And while I'm at it, adding a shorter trigger for "comfort" is just begging for one's shots to get pushed to the side....Beavertail grip along with raised square on grip safety. Enlarged operational controls, Novak Sights. Seems even the USMC requested some FLUFF on their peanut butter pistol? LOL
Does that make the M45A1 a Fluffernutter?
On a different but related note; the external extractor which is in use on some clones is/was a cost saving measure, not an improvement. The original was designed to also assist with feeding, which is something the external extractor lacks. Cheaper to make though, if that's what matters.
Just saying that "change" does not always equate to "improvement", and the mere fact that this or that government entity decides something would be "better if" doesn't necessarily make it so.
DGW
Guess those Marines had no clue what they were doing when they specified all those modifications to JB's original sidearm? Oh well, government training is probably to blame.
SHOK-BUFF, RECOIL BUFFERS, 1911, PACKAGE OF 6 https://share.google/nY5xvsKnaH9hs6y96
Just for fun:
SHOK-BUFF, RECOIL BUFFERS, 1911, PACKAGE OF 6 https://share.google/nY5xvsKnaH9hs6y96
Just for fun:
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So we probably are coming to the question of spring weight? Since I have multiple 1911's I can afford to set them up with differing spring weights to match their intended purpose and loadings.
So your standard 5 inch government model probably comes with a 16 lb spring that doesn't provide consistent tension but usually performs capably with 230 grain FMJ hardball, although slide battering of the frame is usually evident as round counts increase.
Feeding your government model a diet of Fed HST 230 grain hollow points or Gold Dot 230 grain hollow points ( standard defense loads that are hotter than military hardball) only reduces the round count required for frame failure. With a FLGR and consistent tensioning of the spring, a 18 1/2 pound spring aids cycling and prolongs pistol service life with hotter than hardball loadings.
I'm not sure how many folks with a single government model 1911 have a collection of springs that they change prior to switching loads?
Edited for punctuations.
So your standard 5 inch government model probably comes with a 16 lb spring that doesn't provide consistent tension but usually performs capably with 230 grain FMJ hardball, although slide battering of the frame is usually evident as round counts increase.
Feeding your government model a diet of Fed HST 230 grain hollow points or Gold Dot 230 grain hollow points ( standard defense loads that are hotter than military hardball) only reduces the round count required for frame failure. With a FLGR and consistent tensioning of the spring, a 18 1/2 pound spring aids cycling and prolongs pistol service life with hotter than hardball loadings.
I'm not sure how many folks with a single government model 1911 have a collection of springs that they change prior to switching loads?
Edited for punctuations.
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DGW1949
Hawkeye
No one spring can slow something down in two different directions. And to make matters even worse, if it slows the slide velocity in one direction, it increases it in the other.....That's how a spring works. No getting around that, nor the physics that are involved...And BTW, you do know that the slide of a 1911 doesn't unlock from the barrel until after the bullet has exited the barrel regardless of what "weight" of spring you install, eh?...So tell us, why would want to decrease "battering" in one direction only to increase it in another?...Somebody is trying to sell you some ocean front property in Arizona. Oh yeah, I almost forgot...the faster that heavier spring moves the slide back into battery, the more force is acting against the firing pin spring when the slide slams to a stop. So be careful when playing around with springs or you might even create a slam fire situation.
Just sayin' that you might know a lot about being in the U.S.Navy, but you ain't no JMB when it comes to (re)designing the 1911 pistol.
DGW
Just sayin' that you might know a lot about being in the U.S.Navy, but you ain't no JMB when it comes to (re)designing the 1911 pistol.
DGW
Let me see if I remember this right? Both the barrel and the slide move together for approximately the first 1/8 inch of slide travel. As the slide continues back from like one eighth to 1/4 of an inch the barrel is pulled down by the link and out of the lock position. From one quarter to 3/8 of an inch of rearward slide travel the lugs are already in the clear and the barrel continues to draw down to the frame bed this only leaves the light barrel top slide contact.
The greater the recoil force the more momentum is incurred by the slide.
Loads that produce significantly less recoil than hardball may cause short cycling.
My memory isn't what it once was. Perhaps a video can help?
The greater the recoil force the more momentum is incurred by the slide.
Loads that produce significantly less recoil than hardball may cause short cycling.
My memory isn't what it once was. Perhaps a video can help?
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
Matt has several of these animations covering various firearms. Great resource that ought to be force fed to the anti's, to prove to them that they are just precision machinery. There is no part of them that could be interpreted as some evil demon within them. :)
https://www.youtube.com/@mattrittman
Yaworski
Hawkeye
Given p = mv, a = dv/dt, and F = ma.
It follows that dp/dt = m dv./dt. and F = m dv/dt
Ergo F = dp/dt.
It all comes down to F=ma and "you can't push a string."
But you can pull it. Is this part of the opening door problems?
Those shock buffs can do more damage than they prevent if you don’t change them out regularly. Which of course makes an expensive continual maintenance item and profit for the seller.
Shok Buffs and Dwyer Group Grippers........I love some 1911 fluff, and I love Wilson Combat.....but boy they saw some yahoos coming with those gadgets back in the day.
I will admit, there is a place for the Shock Buffs on certain builds on high round count frames or specialized race 1911s...but I highly doubt there are very many folks here in that type of shooting discipline with such high round count frames. Average Joe Schmo slides one on and thinks gee whiz the recoil is softer like they said (most likely not). Then they keep the thing on forever not knowing they should replace at a certain round count (hype for more profit).
...and, before someone rants "but the jarheads used them on the MUESOC pistol"....yes, but that was the first phase when they had to work with extremely high round count weapons that were usually more than twice the age of the jarhead Quantico armorers building them and had been rebirthed at CRANE a few dozen times.
I will admit, there is a place for the Shock Buffs on certain builds on high round count frames or specialized race 1911s...but I highly doubt there are very many folks here in that type of shooting discipline with such high round count frames. Average Joe Schmo slides one on and thinks gee whiz the recoil is softer like they said (most likely not). Then they keep the thing on forever not knowing they should replace at a certain round count (hype for more profit).
...and, before someone rants "but the jarheads used them on the MUESOC pistol"....yes, but that was the first phase when they had to work with extremely high round count weapons that were usually more than twice the age of the jarhead Quantico armorers building them and had been rebirthed at CRANE a few dozen times.
With properly matched recoil spring for the round used shock buffs are probably fluff, but they may be more usable on aluminum framed 1911's that have standard frame lives of 20K rounds? But rail lubrication is probably more critical. JMHO YMMV.
What is a 1911? Some kind of new fangled pistol?
Just kidding. having had a Colt Gov't in the distant past I very much prefer the beavertail grip safety.
Just kidding. having had a Colt Gov't in the distant past I very much prefer the beavertail grip safety.
Since y'all have been talking about spring weights I have a question. I recently saw a video with the owner of Buffalo Bore talking about using 45 ACP +P 255 grain hardcast ammo for woods carry. I had thought about getting a couple of boxes of it from Buffalo Bore or Underwood to play with & using it for that purpose. If I recall correctly I believe the SR-1911 comes stock with an 18.5 pound recoil spring which is what is recommended for this round. Is that true or should I switch to a heavier spring if I decide to play with it.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
I have a few boxes of the Underwood. I tried it out in my Springfield TRP, but not something I'd recommend in a 1911. They didn't feed reliably and the coating scrubbed off on the feed ramp which aggravated the feeding problem. So I've relegated it to my Ruger LC Carbine. Runs fine there, but it's pretty stout so not something suitable for a steady diet.
I have found the Wilson Combat spring caddy to be a valuable addition to my 1911 maintenance bag. YMMV.
SPRING CADDY https://share.google/o5ay6LfgLPcthLJvX
Monitoring the distance your ejected brass flies can aid in determining if your recoil spring matches the load, is to strong for the load, or is to weak for the load.
Each variant of the SR-1911 comes equipped with a different weight recoil spring. When in doubt, change the spring with a new spring of known # weight. Springs will loose tension as round counts increase. If an 18# spring is recommended for the load, start with a new spring known to be 18#. JMHO YMMV.
SPRING CADDY https://share.google/o5ay6LfgLPcthLJvX
Monitoring the distance your ejected brass flies can aid in determining if your recoil spring matches the load, is to strong for the load, or is to weak for the load.
Each variant of the SR-1911 comes equipped with a different weight recoil spring. When in doubt, change the spring with a new spring of known # weight. Springs will loose tension as round counts increase. If an 18# spring is recommended for the load, start with a new spring known to be 18#. JMHO YMMV.
