EXACTLY so! It was a legitimate question and deserved an honest answer. But the OP as much as said that he didn't believe the (correct) answer he already had to the question. That was the source of whatever "problem" there was in this thread. :wink:Precision32 said:
10-22 dry fire
- Thread starter smokndav
- Start date
rodsanlsutigerfan
Bearcat
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2013
- Messages
- 7
Precision32 and Snake45, I understand your points you have made. If I ever have a question, rest assured it will always be framed in a polite manner, it's the way I was brought up. Perhaps the OP could have framed his question in a different manner. I look forward to learning from all on the forum. As I earlier said, my gun knowledge is not what I would like it to be. I am impressed with the experience of others on this forum as well as other forums. Precision32, I appreciate you taking the time to teach others on your own time as part of that Appleseed program---I realize it takes time from your own family to do so. Ya'll have a great day.... 
Precision32
Blackhawk
rodsanlsutigerfan said:Precision32, I appreciate you taking the time to teach others on your own time as part of that Appleseed program---I realize it takes time from your own family to do so. Ya'll have a great day....
Find a Project Appleseed event near you and GO. You'll learn how to make shots out to 500 yards using a service grade rifle and surplus ammo.
Most of the training is done at 25 meters using 22s. Distance is simulated by using reduced targets. We teach you to shoot standing, 3 setting positions and prone; the 6 steps of making the shot, how to calculate where your groups are and how to adjust the sights to make your rifle hit where you point it.
You'll also learn about the true events of April 19, 1775, the day of "The Shot Heard Around the World" and the heritage of marksmanship in the founding of this nation.
Go to www.appleseedUS.org to learn more.
rodsanlsutigerfan
Bearcat
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2013
- Messages
- 7
Thanks for the information Precision32.....I will look into it.
looking back at all this, you are correct that I should have ask if it was ok to dry fire a 10/22, period. I tried my best to explain that I was not calling anyone a lier, just trying to get information as to which was correct. You ask why I ask the question to this forum. It says at the top of the page, Rugerforum.com. I figured that was the place to get an answer and never thought twice about telling the whole story. I could care less if I am right or wrong, just want an answer from the socalled experts, which I am not. As I said several times, I do not take everything I am told or everything I read as gospel. Just following up trying to get the facts, not some smart ass response. Some on this thread understand and some do not. Thanks to those that do.
To answer your question go to this site and then scroll to page 17. https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/1022.pdf
Sgt Garcia
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2004
- Messages
- 404
Fox Mike said:
Correct. Ruger would be the right and logical place to go, not RugerForum or any other for that matter.
JMO and I'm sticking to it...... :wink:
Dennis.
Ol'Freak
Bearcat
If you push on the back end of the firing pin, same spot the hammer smacks, until its forward travel ceases from having bumped against the firing pin stop pin then you could observe that the firing pin tip cannot protrude beyond the bolt face, unless something’s really wrong needing fixing.
Sgt Garcia said:
I did eventually go to Ruger and they did confirm that it is ok to dry fire a 10/22. The instructors were right and now I don't flinch every time I accidentally dry fire my 10/22.I am not devastated that I was wrong but actually glad to find the correct info from the experts (Ruger)
Ain't it wonderful when we learn something. Should have went with Ruger and avoided this forum and all that has transpired. Again, thanks to all that saw that I was just trying to get the correct info.
Just out of curiosity, smokndav, did the Appleseed instructors tell you anything else that you didn't believe or disagreed with? Not trying to start a fight, I'm genuinely interested in the answer. :? :? :?
Snake45 said:
Things to bring to an Appleseed event, the 1st thing on the list, as I remember, is a willingness to learn something new.
I did that and learned a lot, with the only disagreement being the dry fire thing.
Actually, I did disagree with shooting so many targets on Sunday after lunch. This 65 year old man and several others younger than me were very tired, hot, sore and just simply ready to call it a day. Each target score was worse than the one before and just wasting ammo. None of us said anything about this to the instructors, we simply kept going until they ask us if we wanted to shoot more. At that point it was a resounding NO from everyone there except for 1 young kid.
I thought the instructors did a very good job.
Precision32
Blackhawk
We generally find people get higher scopes when put through the "AQT grind" on Sunday. You should have your NPOA established during the preparation period and the fast pace forces you to rely on your NPOA rather than "fussing" the shot.
Yes, if you're not used to it, the pace of the Sunday venue can be a little rough. However, you can set out any part of the event you need too. Some times just taking a break for one AQT cycle will give you your second wind. The Instructors WILL try to push you, but it's not boot camp. The goal is to help people earn their Rifleman patch by shooting as many AQTs as can fit into the time. I've instructed at events where we pulled the firing line down in twilight.
From my experience, most Instructors average 3 events to earn their Rifleman patch. Some earn it on the first event, but that is not the norm. Persistence does pay off.
Yes, if you're not used to it, the pace of the Sunday venue can be a little rough. However, you can set out any part of the event you need too. Some times just taking a break for one AQT cycle will give you your second wind. The Instructors WILL try to push you, but it's not boot camp. The goal is to help people earn their Rifleman patch by shooting as many AQTs as can fit into the time. I've instructed at events where we pulled the firing line down in twilight.
From my experience, most Instructors average 3 events to earn their Rifleman patch. Some earn it on the first event, but that is not the norm. Persistence does pay off.
I do understand but will not drive 3 hrs and stay in a motel for 2 nights to try again for the rifleman patch. If an event is scheduled in my neck of the woods I will try to attend the Sunday only event to try for the patch. I think with what I learned and being fresh I can earn the patch and will be proud to have it.
I do understand the NPOA is important but find it difficult to use during the timed sessions. I know, practice, practice.
Please understand, I never intended to knock the program, just expressing my opinion. One instructor did mention more than 1 time that participation was down for several events. Everyone that I work with said they would never attend an event after I told my story and showed my scabbed up elbows. That is a telling statement. Ease up a bit and appeal to more folks. Hope you understand.
I do understand the NPOA is important but find it difficult to use during the timed sessions. I know, practice, practice.
Please understand, I never intended to knock the program, just expressing my opinion. One instructor did mention more than 1 time that participation was down for several events. Everyone that I work with said they would never attend an event after I told my story and showed my scabbed up elbows. That is a telling statement. Ease up a bit and appeal to more folks. Hope you understand.
Precision32
Blackhawk
I displaced a rib at my first Appleseed, didn't stop me. :wink: I continued coming back until I earned my Rifleman patch. I've had shooters on the line who's elbows were bleeding through their shirts and they just kept on going. I've been to shoots when the heat index was well over 105 degrees. It got down to two ladies that had what it took to continue shooting when every "man" sat on the side lines and watched.
Yea, it's tough, but what's the old proverb? "When the goings gets tough, the tough get going." Wear elbow pads if you need to or toughen up your elbows. Knees take a beating also, so wear knee pads to protect them if your knees are tender. With time you will toughen up to meet the challenge. I'm 62 with five bad discs in my low back and I still get into every position. When I started I could not get into the crossed legged setting position; with time I could do so. Even the military allowed buck recruits to use padding until their elbows and knees toughened up. That's why we tell you to practice and practice some more.
If we drop our standards to make it "easy" what do we gain? What would we have to do next, drop the qualifying score because a 210 out of a possible 250 score is too hard to do? That's a 84% grade, about a "B-" in most grading systems. Should everyone just get a patch simply for showing up? :roll:
It takes perseverance to Adopt, Improvise and Overcome; to do whatever it takes to make the grade.
You don't wait until the "FIRE" command is give to find your NPOA, you find it during your preparation period. If you don't learn to relax into your sling and find your NPOA, you are likely not going to make Rifleman. The first thing your body does under recoil is RELAX. If you don't find your NPOA (Natural Point of Aim, where your rifle points with the body relaxed) the rifle will come off target. If you use any muscles to pull the rifle onto target, you don't have NPOA and WILL miss the target.
We used to shoot some targets with our EYES CLOSED. After your rifle was loaded and your NPOA was established, you were told to close your eyes and the "FIRE" command was given. Those that had not fooled themselves and had found their NPOA would put five rounds into a 1-1/2" square. These that had NOT established NPOA would have shots stringing all across the target.
Shooting is down across the board due to the shortage of ammo and the economy. The weather has a lot to do with it also. Summer events are always of lower attendance than the ones during the cooler Fall, Winter and Spring events. At our local public range there were two gents that picked up brass for sale and reloading. They were there every time I went to the range. They don't even bother to show up now because the number of people shooting and leaving brass behind is so low that it's not worth the gas to get there and back.
Yea, it's tough, but what's the old proverb? "When the goings gets tough, the tough get going." Wear elbow pads if you need to or toughen up your elbows. Knees take a beating also, so wear knee pads to protect them if your knees are tender. With time you will toughen up to meet the challenge. I'm 62 with five bad discs in my low back and I still get into every position. When I started I could not get into the crossed legged setting position; with time I could do so. Even the military allowed buck recruits to use padding until their elbows and knees toughened up. That's why we tell you to practice and practice some more.
If we drop our standards to make it "easy" what do we gain? What would we have to do next, drop the qualifying score because a 210 out of a possible 250 score is too hard to do? That's a 84% grade, about a "B-" in most grading systems. Should everyone just get a patch simply for showing up? :roll:
It takes perseverance to Adopt, Improvise and Overcome; to do whatever it takes to make the grade.
You don't wait until the "FIRE" command is give to find your NPOA, you find it during your preparation period. If you don't learn to relax into your sling and find your NPOA, you are likely not going to make Rifleman. The first thing your body does under recoil is RELAX. If you don't find your NPOA (Natural Point of Aim, where your rifle points with the body relaxed) the rifle will come off target. If you use any muscles to pull the rifle onto target, you don't have NPOA and WILL miss the target.
We used to shoot some targets with our EYES CLOSED. After your rifle was loaded and your NPOA was established, you were told to close your eyes and the "FIRE" command was given. Those that had not fooled themselves and had found their NPOA would put five rounds into a 1-1/2" square. These that had NOT established NPOA would have shots stringing all across the target.
Shooting is down across the board due to the shortage of ammo and the economy. The weather has a lot to do with it also. Summer events are always of lower attendance than the ones during the cooler Fall, Winter and Spring events. At our local public range there were two gents that picked up brass for sale and reloading. They were there every time I went to the range. They don't even bother to show up now because the number of people shooting and leaving brass behind is so low that it's not worth the gas to get there and back.
you said you did not want to pick a fight, you might have been right about that but you sure did want to get up on the soap box. And what a speech it it was. Nothing to do with what I have said on prior post or even what the original question was about. You sir, are a blow hard and I think most folks that are following this post might agree.
You certainly need to go back and read from the beginning. I did not quit, even when I was told it would be ok
I NEVER said anything about dropping the standards, where did you read that ? I shot a 201 on Saturday and was sure I could better that, but because of soreness, heat, old age, being out of shape, etc, I could not. No problem, I might try again someday. The program is supposed to be mostly about history anyway, if you want to believe the instructors
Now sit down, shut up, and quit ruining my life. Like the man said, I just ask a question.
You certainly need to go back and read from the beginning. I did not quit, even when I was told it would be ok
I NEVER said anything about dropping the standards, where did you read that ? I shot a 201 on Saturday and was sure I could better that, but because of soreness, heat, old age, being out of shape, etc, I could not. No problem, I might try again someday. The program is supposed to be mostly about history anyway, if you want to believe the instructors
Now sit down, shut up, and quit ruining my life. Like the man said, I just ask a question.
Precision32
Blackhawk
smokndav said:
I never said any such thing. If I did, please point me to where.
smokndav said:
Just HOW am I ruining your life? Must not be much of a life if this mildly testy discussion is ruining it. :roll:
Coop
Blackhawk
What a waste of bandwidth.
Barf.
Barf.
mohavesam
Hawkeye
Rule #4. Then again, rules not enforced are not really rules.
Major T
Blackhawk
If Ruger says it is fine to dry fire all models, fine. The manual infers that may only apply to the target model, by placing the info under the heading of ..."target models only". Even if the guy had read the manual, he may have still had questions if he was using a field model. Jack
pedropcola
Bearcat
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5
Wow. No where did he call the Appleseed guy a liar. He questioned the mans statement. Which Americans would be a lot better off if we did this more often instead of just blanket acceptance. Try that with the TV news some night. He asked the Ruger forum for clarification one way or the other and got it. Backed up by the manual, and by an explanation of why this particular .22 is ok to dry fire. He also got a lot of crap from guys who are way too sensitive about their own Appleseed experiences. If you go around believing everything someone says because they have a title, "instructor", you are going to be sorely disappointed many times in life.
I will turn this around. Some will listen, some will decide to call me names. Whatever. I made a living for a long time instructing Naval Aviators how to fly. Tough, great, best job ever kind of work. When I first started I repeated things I knew to be true. Some guys questioned the hows and whys. Sometimes I had an answer and sometimes I was left scratching my head, "I'm not quite sure why". After a bit I came to the idea that if I was going to spout off something I had two choices, I could say "because I said so and I am the instructor" or I could actually do my homework and explain the hows and whys. Not surprisingly the latter method produces a better product. As an added benefit it also makes for fewer errors downstream when he is telling his buddies the answer because he understands why, he doesn't just parrot an answer by rote memory.
My point is this. If you choose to "educate" someone you should be prepared to be able to explain the why. It makes you smarter, more credible, and it is a better teaching technique. Of course there are plenty of things that are beyond our understanding and then "Just because" might be the correct answer.
I will turn this around. Some will listen, some will decide to call me names. Whatever. I made a living for a long time instructing Naval Aviators how to fly. Tough, great, best job ever kind of work. When I first started I repeated things I knew to be true. Some guys questioned the hows and whys. Sometimes I had an answer and sometimes I was left scratching my head, "I'm not quite sure why". After a bit I came to the idea that if I was going to spout off something I had two choices, I could say "because I said so and I am the instructor" or I could actually do my homework and explain the hows and whys. Not surprisingly the latter method produces a better product. As an added benefit it also makes for fewer errors downstream when he is telling his buddies the answer because he understands why, he doesn't just parrot an answer by rote memory.
My point is this. If you choose to "educate" someone you should be prepared to be able to explain the why. It makes you smarter, more credible, and it is a better teaching technique. Of course there are plenty of things that are beyond our understanding and then "Just because" might be the correct answer.
True. And I in turn questioned why he would believe anyone here--and here we are all just 1s and 0s on a screen--when he obviously didn't believe the flesh-and-blood AS instructor, with whom he spent a number of hours, and whom he later stated hadn't told him anything else untrue or that he disagreed with.pedropcola said:
He asked a legitimate question, to which he got legitimate answers. But he already had the right answer when he started, he just didn't want to believe it.
And BTW I've never been to an Appleseed program and have no connection with them whatsoever.
pedropcola
Bearcat
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5
I can't believe I have to explain something this simple to a grown man but here goes. Re read what I wrote. Just because someone at an Appleseed meet or here on this forum says something does not make it true nor does it make it gospel. He was looking for answers and this is the perfect place to get them, or should be.
What he was looking for and got, was the answer to both where to find it in the Ruger manual and a simple explanation of the mechanics of why. Both of which is what he came to the Ruger forum to get. Both of which was lacking from his experience at the shoot. You hide behind this I'm a straight shooter, no bs kind of guy shtick. What you really have been is useless. On your first post you could have pointed to the page in the manual (someone else did that) or you could have explained why it is ok in this particular rifle (someone else again). All you have done is been and continued to be a dick. If it makes you feel better you weren't the only one. Not helpful not useful. Before you think I am all sore and bent out of shape, save it. I'm not, this is not my forum of choice and now I remember why.
Sorry, I guess I am a "straight shooter, no bs kind of guy" as well.
What he was looking for and got, was the answer to both where to find it in the Ruger manual and a simple explanation of the mechanics of why. Both of which is what he came to the Ruger forum to get. Both of which was lacking from his experience at the shoot. You hide behind this I'm a straight shooter, no bs kind of guy shtick. What you really have been is useless. On your first post you could have pointed to the page in the manual (someone else did that) or you could have explained why it is ok in this particular rifle (someone else again). All you have done is been and continued to be a dick. If it makes you feel better you weren't the only one. Not helpful not useful. Before you think I am all sore and bent out of shape, save it. I'm not, this is not my forum of choice and now I remember why.
Sorry, I guess I am a "straight shooter, no bs kind of guy" as well.
He could have asked the question straight-up, without any mention of Appleseed or anyone else giving him the answer that he found questionable. He chose to ask the question in a confrontational, argumentative, "Drama Queen" way.pedropcola said:
You sound like yet another Drama Queen type of guy to me. Why else dredge up this weeks-old thread, to which you've added no value whatsoever? :? :lol: :lol: :lol:
pedropcola
Bearcat
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5
And you sound like an idiot who can't admit you should have just answered the mans questions instead of getting your panties wadded over some "offense" over Appleseed.
I give up, you win. You are right, I was wrong. I came over to this forum to get some information about my new TD 10/22. I am leaving because the mods let assholes like you run the place.
Enjoy your fiefdom douchebag.
I give up, you win. You are right, I was wrong. I came over to this forum to get some information about my new TD 10/22. I am leaving because the mods let assholes like you run the place.
Enjoy your fiefdom douchebag.
A reasonable person has to wonder why you didn't just do that instead of dredging up this old thread and trying to pick a fight with it. (But that's not what a Drama Queen would do, now, is it?) :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:pedropcola said:
That'll save the mods the trouble of banning you for your repeated foul language. :wink: :lol:
Wow, I've been lurking on this site soaking up some great knowledge, but this thread threw me for a loop...
If I didn't know and better I'd think that this site has a bunch of liberals on it just waiting to be offended.
Being a first time poster it's not my place to tell you how to operate, but geez, lighten up a bit, it was a simple question asked inelegantly -- no need to flame the guy!
If I didn't know and better I'd think that this site has a bunch of liberals on it just waiting to be offended.
Being a first time poster it's not my place to tell you how to operate, but geez, lighten up a bit, it was a simple question asked inelegantly -- no need to flame the guy!
mohavesam
Hawkeye
+1 Capt. Dan. Well said.
Richbaker
Blackhawk
pedropcola said:
Pot, meet Kettle...... :roll:
