Cimarron Model P (old model) Knowledge--UPDATE: Got IT

[Delbert]

Went to town yesterday and had time to stop at one of the local LGS's. One store had the usual plastic semi's and a few Single Six's, BUT I'm looking for a big bore six shooter to have fun with and well, to just have.

Found at other LGS and right beside a polished stainless Schofield which was not of my interest was a very nice looking blued/case-hardened frame Cimarron in 45LC. Just what I was searching for, but it had a birds head gf. Not my style or look, but looked very interesting for about $550 which is on the upper end of these guns. It had 4-3/4" barrel, action was tight and smooth w/very nice trigger.

What made me very interested in this model after looking up some reviews and more knowledge is this Model P has the lock screw at front of lower frame for the base pin which people say is the best one to get as it imitates the Colt Peacemaker the closest and is made by Uberti, which we know makes clones.

I do see some folks refer to (this) base pin model as a "Swiss Safety", which I don't understand the reference, but do understand that the pin can be slipped further rearward to block the hammer from slam firing. Did the old Colts also have this feature for safety?

Also, if I do get this model P, where is best place to get a plow handle type gf. I see them on some sights in schematics, but don't know what they call this type as it comes in 3 pieces. The trigger guard, top rear and underside front back straps, which are all held together by screws. Do I need to get all 3 pieces (plus wooden grips) to change to a plow handle grip?

Help me, Wizards of Six Shooters
Del

 

[Yaworski]

I do see some folks refer to (this) base pin model as a "Swiss Safety", which I don't understand the reference,

Back in the 70s there was a SAA clone, I think made by Hammerli, that had a base pin which functioned as a safety. They called it a "Swiss Safety." If memory serves, the pistol was called "The Virginian."

 

[Cholo]

Did the old Colts also have this feature for safety?

No.

 

[bedwards]

I have a fairly new models Cimarron in 45LC made by Pietta that has the same safety.

 

[Delbert]

I have a fairly new models Cimarron in 45LC made by Pietta that has the same safety.

Have you found 45LC ammo easy to find in larger stores like BPS, LGS, or other gun stores that also sell ammos.

I also understand that 45 Schofield and 45 S&W can be substituted for 45LC to shoot? How are these ammo's for finding as I've not heard of them before. NOT, 45 ACP.

 

[bedwards]

No, 45LC is hard to find unless you want critical defense which is really expensive. So I'm reloading mine.
I don't know about the other two cartridges.

 

[arfmel]

.45 Schofield and .45 S&W are generally harder to find than .45 Colt.

Look for “Cowboy Loads” for slightly more economical shooting with a .45 Colt.

https://sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammo-sale/45-long-colt-ammo/

 

[GYJ44]

The Schofield has never been made in stainless so it had to be nickel.

The guns with the screw basepin retention are the so-called "blackpowder frames", which Colt made from 1873 to about 1896. Loosely coinciding with the switch to smokeless. They do not have the basepin safety notch but may have the one in the hammer, which I always ignore.

I have a ton of Uberti single actions and just ignore the various safeties. Except the newer retractable firing pin, I just avoid those.

Why do you need to change the grip frame? They are two pieces, not three.

I have a fairly new models Cimarron in 45LC made by Pietta that has the same safety.

No they don't. Piettas either have the traditional action or a transfer bar.

 

[Yaworski]

I have a fairly new models Cimarron in 45LC made by Pietta that has the same safety.

According to the Interwebs, Cimarron revolvers are made by Uberti which is owned by Beretta. I have an Uberti SAA and it has the base pin safety.

 

[Gator89]

The Model P should be a 4 clicker.

Upgrade to a Be!t Mountain base pin and toss the OEM pin in the empty box.

 

[Gator89]

According to the Interwebs, Cimarron revolvers are made by Uberti which is owned by Beretta. I have an Uberti SAA and it has the base pin safety.

You are correct.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Beretta makes (made?) an SAA clone with a more grotesque transfer bar type safety but the Uberti Cimarron guns have a nearly undetectable pin safety. $550 isn't too much in my opinion. I had an Evil Roy that was very well made and sold it for $650 with little trouble. .45 Colt is a reloader cartridge but so are all straight wall "revolver" rounds in my opinion.

 

[bedwards]

This one has the 4 click action and no transfer bar. The cylinder pin can be pushed back to stop the hammer from going all the way down. 2019 date of manufacture.

 

[usmc69]

Went to town yesterday and had time to stop at one of the local LGS's. One store had the usual plastic semi's and a few Single Six's, BUT I'm looking for a big bore six shooter to have fun with and well, to just have.

Found at other LGS and right beside a polished stainless Schofield which was not of my interest was a very nice looking blued/case-hardened frame Cimarron in 45LC. Just what I was searching for, but it had a birds head gf. Not my style or look, but looked very interesting for about $550 which is on the upper end of these guns. It had 4-3/4" barrel, action was tight and smooth w/very nice trigger.

What made me very interested in this model after looking up some reviews and more knowledge is this Model P has the lock screw at front of lower frame for the base pin which people say is the best one to get as it imitates the Colt Peacemaker the closest and is made by Uberti, which we know makes clones.

I do see some folks refer to (this) base pin model as a "Swiss Safety", which I don't understand the reference, but do understand that the pin can be slipped further rearward to block the hammer from slam firing. Did the old Colts also have this feature for safety?

Also, if I do get this model P, where is best place to get a plow handle type gf. I see them on some sights in schematics, but don't know what they call this type as it comes in 3 pieces. The trigger guard, top rear and underside front back straps, which are all held together by screws. Do I need to get all 3 pieces (plus wooden grips) to change to a plow handle grip?

Help me, Wizards of Six Shooters
Del

You will need to get the entire lower frame (grip frame). Also a set of wooden grips. I changed out a birdshead grip frame on a New Model Vaquero. Much refer the way it is now to the birdshead.

 

[Rclark]

I really like my .45 Colt Cimmaron Model P even though it has the floating firing pin safety. You don't notice that unless looking for it. Of course I'd prefer a Model P like it came out of the factory in 1873, but too many people turn to lawyers when an accident happens, so safety it is.... Mine has the cross pin base pin latch. There is another version with the base-pin front screw (which came first back in 1873). Keep meaning to pick one of those up. Action is nice. Also have a .44 Special Model P. I do have a shorty birds-head .32-20/.32 H&R Magnum which is ok as well... It has the silly long base pin safety though.

As for cartridges. The .45 Colt is a reloader cartridge unless you have deep pockets and a good source of ammo if you shoot a lot. It can be harder to find.

Following is the Model P, holstered, and size compared to a Walker.

 

[GYJ44]

Cimarron has guns made by BOTH Uberti and Pietta. The Frontier models are Pietta and don't have any safety contraptions.

Some Uberti's have only three clicks and a retractable firing pin in the hammer. It is not a "floating firing pin" (that's what Ruger uses.) The "Old Model" guns do not and have traditional four click actions. Easiest tell is the shape and placement of the trigger in the triggerguard. Using Rclark's example, the trigger is further forward and more curved with the retractable firing pin. These guns have proven problematic for some folks. I have an 1862 Pocket .380 with it that is all but useless. I've been collecting hammer/trigger sets that have no safeties whatsoever in preparation for the day when we can't buy them without this nonsense.

Gas Guzzler's Evil Roy has the traditional four click action. The trigger is straighter and more setback in the triggerguard.

The Cimarron Frontier (among others like the El Malo) has a traditional action.

 

[GYJ44]

The Beretta Stampede was made by Uberti and had a transfer bar. It hasn't been made in years.

 

[Yaworski]

When I got my Uberti I found that you can buy a replacement base pin that is shorter and doesn't function as a safety. I didn't see the need for the expense.

I got the Matt Dillon version with the 7 inch barrel. I wish that I had opted for a shorter barrel. Actually, I wonder why I bought it since I have no interest in cowboy shooting.

 

[bedwards]

I don't cowboy shoot, but this was a bargain and its very pleasurable to shoot. I can reload for it also.

 

[GYJ44]

When I got my Uberti I found that you can buy a replacement base pin that is shorter and doesn't function as a safety. I didn't see the need for the expense.

I got the Matt Dillon version with the 7 inch barrel. I wish that I had opted for a shorter barrel. Actually, I wonder why I bought it since I have no interest in cowboy shooting.

I got several of them but haven't even put one in yet.

I've got a bunch of these guns but have never even attended a CAS shoot.

 

[Mitch47]

Have you found 45LC ammo easy to find in larger stores like BPS, LGS, or other gun stores that also sell ammos.

I read an article a day or two ago by some fellow shooting a CAS Wild Bunch meet with his SR1911 among his three guns. I had not heard of them so I found their website & shopped. I ordered 3 boxes as shown below. They are riding a UPS truck & should be here next week.

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Item	Name	Description
167928	44-40 WCF 200 Grain RNFP BLA...	SKU: 200RNFPL4440WCF50CCB
167929	.45 ACP 230 Grain "Wild...	SKU: 230RNL45ACPWB50CCB
167930	.45 Long Colt 250 Grain RNFP...	SKU: 250RNFPL45LC50CCB

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$47.99 (USD)​

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$37.99 (USD)​

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$45.99 (USD)​

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$45.99 (USD)​

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[model70man]

The Model P should be a 4 clicker.

Upgrade to a Be!t Mountain base pin and toss the OEM pin in the empty box.

Sir...Is Belt Mountain still in business? I have been searching for them on the 'net. Thank you!

 

[GYJ44]

Sir...Is Belt Mountain still in business? I have been searching for them on the 'net. Thank you!

Skinner Sights now owns the basepin business.

 

[needsmostuff]

Cimarron in 45LC. Just what I was searching for, but it had a birds head gf. Not my style or look, but looked very interesting for about $550 which is on the upper end of these guns.
Also, if I do get this model P, where is best place to get a plow handle type gf. I see them on some sights in schematics, but don't know what they call this type as it comes in 3 pieces. The trigger guard, top rear and underside front back straps, which are all held together by screws. Do I need to get all 3 pieces (plus wooden grips) to change to a plow handle grip?

Hey Del, couple of thoughts.
First is a small point. The Cimarrons I have seen that are round of butt are actually not Birdsheads . They are a Thunderer or Lightning style.
Subtle difference but a more pronounced hump toward the top of the butt. Cimarron MAY have a true Birdshead that I have not seen but that is usually more of a Ruger thing.
Second, If the gun is close to the top of the value for that gun and you spring for all the conversion parts you will be way over the top. Maybe better to wait till you find what you want.
OR,,,, find some one local to swap parts with . I believe (and I my easily be wrong) the trigger guard/front strap can stay on the gun and the wood and backstrap is all that need changing. But there may be fitting issues between these parts as these guns have been made for a lot of years and changes happen.

 

[model70man]

Skinner Sights now owns the basepin business.

Thank you very much, Sir!

 

[Gator89]

Thank you very much, Sir!

Link to the base pins on the Skinner website:

https://skinnersights.com/collections/accessories-1/products/belt-mountain-base-pins

 

[Delbert]

Hey Del, couple of thoughts.
First is a small point. The Cimarrons I have seen that are round of butt are actually not Birdsheads . They are a Thunderer or Lightning style.
Subtle difference but a more pronounced hump toward the top of the butt. Cimarron MAY have a true Birdshead that I have not seen but that is usually more of a Ruger thing.
Second, If the gun is close to the top of the value for that gun and you spring for all the conversion parts you will be way over the top. Maybe better to wait till you find what you want.
OR,,,, find some one local to swap parts with . I believe (and I my easily be wrong) the trigger guard/front strap can stay on the gun and the wood and backstrap is all that need changing. But there may be fitting issues between these parts as these guns have been made for a lot of years and changes happen.

@needsmostuff, thanks for the info. I'm going to town tomorrow and see if LGS still has the pistol to verify. I did see some pics where the Thunderer looked like what I found, but the store's owner said it was a Model P and it did say so on the gun, but the Thunderer could be same framework, but with different grip frame of what looks like a modified birds head and not the normal plow handle like most cowboy guns are.

Don't know difference between the Lightning and Thunderer that you've mentioned as I'm still new to SAA type pistols, but I do like to learn.

 

[Delbert]

Well, I picked up my new Cimarron 45 Colt and 2 boxes of ammo. One box is 250gr and other is 200gr Cowboy Action for softer shootin.

The gun is a genuine 4-clicker. I researched a bit on this model and like @needsmostuff stated IS the Thunderer model, which does have the special birdshead grip w/the bump rise on upper top rear of grip frame and was designed by Cimarron's owner to be used only on Cimarron models for its uniqueness that Uberti/Pietta doesn't get for their models.

The Thunderer "old model P" is built on the older BP framework of 1873-1877 style Colt models, but using a base pin held by a threaded, knurled knob head screw to not require a screwdriver. I've seen some pics of these models using a simple machined screw w/simple screwdriver slot to remove for takedown. Don't know if original screw lost and replaced or if this is now the way the gun is being sold. Also, this old model P CANNOT be converted to the newer base pin side-frame spring loaded cylinder release system as framework is not drilled for conversion.

The grip frame on the Thunderer from info I've read about, also uses the larger width GF, whereas the Thunderstorm and Jr P models which looks exactly like the Thunderer, but slightly different in calibers used, are based on the newer "post war model P of 1877 to 1940) uses a spring loaded, side-frame base pin release, 3-clicker hammer and slightly smaller width GF, while the Jr. P's are built for up to (I believe) 38SPL only.

Unable to show pictures as I still don't know how to use my smart phone to set up onto this forum, sorry.

I believe I got a very good deal at $500 OTD, ($600 w/2 boxes ammo) and having a (new) MSRP of around $800+/- for this used Thunderer which didn't even show any cylinder pawl drag lines, ammo flash on cylinder or force cone. If it was shot, it couldn't of been more than a cylinder or two. Did not come w/box or any paperwork.
Del

 

[GYJ44]

Well, Taylor's has one with the Thunderer grip as well. They erroneously call it "flat-top".

I like the Thunderer grip frame better than the birdshead. I got one last year in .44Special with the factory aged finish.

Taylor's also has a regular birdshead.

And this thing, which looks longer.

 

[needsmostuff]

Thunderer grips, they are around and like GYJ they are bearable for me where the standard birdshead is not.
I got this ole Beretta,,,,,,,,

And I even put one on my snubby Ruger