Why "hot loads" ?

[Flyover_Country]

Question for the masses . Why "hot load" a cartridge ?
I see this all the time "interested in a hot load for a (fill in the cartridge).
Why not buy a bigger rifle or pistol ?
If you want to "hot load" a 45 colt why not buy a 454 Casull .
Just asking because I don't understand this concept .
Never "hot loaded" anything . I just went and bought a larger caliber .
Maybe it's just me but if you understand this philosophy enlighten me .
pulaski

I think it is because of four things:

1. Many older cartridges chambered for older firearms have a SAAMI pressure limit that is much less than what the modern firearms they are currently being fired from are capable of. An excellent example is the .45-70, which since it is so old and has been chambered in so many different types of firearms, has book-published loadings of 16k PSI (black powder pressure loads), 28k PSI (SAAMI spec "safe for all rifles" loads), 40k PSI (for modern lever-action .45-70s), and 50k PSI (for Ruger and Browning single-shots.) The .45-70 loaded to 40k PSI has significantly different possible applications than the 16k PSI load so loading to a higher pressure lets them use their firearms safely for different uses than they would have otherwise been able to.

2. Somebody has (or thinks they have) too small of a cartridge to do what they want to do, and instead of buying a new firearm chambered in a larger cartridge, they want to "get more" out of their current firearm.

3. Some people just like to push the envelope.

4. There are very specific cases such as IDPSA where somebody has to comply with a certain set of rules and their current firearm is just short of meeting some breakpoint (e.g. major power level). They would rather push their current firearm/cartridge a little hot to cross that breakpoint than get a different firearm or a different chambering.

Personally, I have never loaded rounds hot. I picked chamberings such that full-power SAAMI spec loads were at least powerful enough for what I wanted to do and if anything, load down rather than up. I reload for all of my centerfire firearms. Virtually all of the rounds fired from my shotguns are "reduced" as full-powered 1 3/4-2 ounce 3" magnum 12 gauge rounds have limited usefulness compared to a standard 2 3/4" 1-1 1/8 ounce load, ditto with the 20 gauge and 1 1/4 ounce 3" magnum vs. 7/8-1 ounce 2 3/4" loads. Most all of my .44 Magnum loads are slightly warmer than a .44 Special and not full-bore rounds. Most of my .30-06 rounds are full power or very close to it since I mainly use my '06 for deer hunting and use the other firearms for lower-powered applications such as pest control, but I still have even loaded the '06 down to .30-30 power levels for some of the range practice (although it shoots 10" low at 100 yards compared to full-speed loads.)

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Because:

Rugers are built strong enough to handle magnum loads. OK to hot rod. Hence the manuals list "Ruger Only" loads.

Colts and their clones are NOT built to handle magnum loads. NOT OK to hot rod. Do not use "Ruger Only" loads.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Because:

Rugers are built strong enough to handle magnum loads. OK to hot rod. Hence the manuals list "Ruger Only" loads.

Colts and their clones are NOT built to handle magnum loads. NOT OK to hot rod. Do not use "Ruger Only" loads.

Clarification:

SOME Ruger single-actions can handle "Ruger Only" loads and some cannot. The current crop of "mid-frame" guns should stick with the loading manuals for proper loads for the chambering in question . . . no "Ruger Only" stuff.

:mrgreen:

 

[Rick Courtright]

SOME Ruger single-actions can handle "Ruger Only" loads and some cannot.

Hi,

And here's the corker in my book: RUGER will not tell us which ones will! Only third party sources do that, so we can "believe" but do we really "know?" And since Ruger builds the guns, and does know exactly how they're built, I see no reason to disbelieve them when they say their guns are good for SAAMI spec ammo... then advocate nothing more.

So instead of hotrodding a .45 Blackhawk that MAY handle ~30,000 psi loads (and did when Mr. Linebaugh tested 'em, but may or may not today what with line changes over the years in materials, etc.), I bought a Redhawk in .44 Mag that Ruger DESIGNED to handle 35,000 psi, right out of the book. SAAMI's book! According to Hodgdon, I can push a 355 gr bullet out the end of that gun at up to 1235 fps (approx 1210 ft lb muzzle energy), while still being within design specs of the gun AND ammo. Since that will kill pretty much anything in my neighborhood, I'm happy.

To each his own in this situation...

Rick C

 

[Thumbcocker]

cause it kills stuff deader

 

[grobin]

First what do we mean by "not loads"?

A. +P and similar that are within SAAMI pressures but just.
These are useful when you need full power loads and factory loads are wimpy e.g. 10mm 'FBI' loads are really down gunning to 40mm. A guide killed a griz with a 9mm using Buffalo Bore 147 gr at 1100 fps. Article in American hunter.

This is just getting full value for the cartridge.

B. '+P+' loads that exceed SAAMI specs.
There are several reasons for these (many may be met by A. loads).
1. Competition, 9mm loaded hot makes the 'major' category along with 45acp. But the brass costs ¢4/round less than 45acp (starline). As you can't normally recover the brass in competition this adds up.
2. To meet a particular need. Shooting elk at long ranges. (I agree going from 300 Winchester mag to 338 lupua is a better solution if feasible.)
3. Macho, my 105mm will blow a hole in y'r steel target and your's will not! Phsychrity is relatively expensive but not compared to restorative surgery and physical therapy!

"kills stuff deader"-this is the old stopping power falicy. The 9mm that killed the griz would likely go through a human with minimal damage.

 

[volshooter]

If I need more power I use a more powerful cartridge/firearm.
I own from a .22 to a .454 Casual in hand guns. I'll use what I have and not hotrod.
Years of experience have shown me there is nothing the .454 will do that the .44mag will do.
Dinosaurs haven't been around for some time, no need for hand cannons. We have wild hogs and black bear, a .45LC will take them as well, as I've heard a .357 mag.
If you need more power, say grizzly country, buy a more powerful firearm.
I understand wanting to get the most from your cartridge, is it worth damaging your firearm to get hot rod loads when you can buy another more powerful one?
I shoot for best groups. After all is accuracy not our goal? I've taken a few deer with .45ACP and .357.
Ruger firearms are the finest carry pistols in the woods, If I need a .44mag I'll carry it. My go to is a New Vaquero with approved loads. I don't feel under gunned, even facing black bear.

Just my opinion, carry enough firearm to handle your business.

 

[AJGUNNER]

When I got my first .44 Magnum and started reloading for it, I had a raging case of "Magnumitis". I quickly worked up my loads to near max and sometimes right at max. I liked the huge muzzle blast, the wrist breaking recoil and mebbe the looks I got from other shooters at the range (?). Most of it was being able to control and get good results from "The most powerful handgun in the world", at that time. I started with 38 Special, and when that became too tame, I went to the 357 Magnum, then "needing" more power (ugh, more power!) I got my first 44 Magnum. I wasn't into hot rods or big shiny trucks and the other factors in my life were "normal" I just liked big guns (I'd ask a Psychiatrist if I really wanted an answer, but I don't). For some, big powerful guns adds cojones to their britches, but I just enjoyed the big guys and didn't brag about them either... :wink:

BTW that was 30 years ago and my loads today are sane...

Wow---Are you certain that we are not brothers??? This is pretty much my story to a T.

I am just thankful that Elmer Keith did some "hot rodding" back in the day, so that we can all play with the 44 magnums now without wrecking a perfectly good ruger.

 

[Jon406]

I wouldn't want a weak load in Bear country.

Exactly

What I carry in my bear woods revolver, doesn't mean I shoot those loads all the time.

 

[Greenjoytj]

Why buy a bigger firearm for just the occasional high power use if you can SAFELY hot load the firearm you already have?

Or

Buy once cry once and get a 460 S&W Magnum and shoot any of the 3 older cartridges that will fit. 45 S&W Schofield, 45 Colt, 45 Casull.

Who hasn't landed a very big fish by playing it carefully on tackle that was really too light for the weight of fish caught.

 

[Mus408]

Only caliber I "hot" load would be .45 Colt but only in the revolvers that can handle it.
My hot load would be Ruger loads which I shoot in my Alaskan since I don't need no part of a Casull round at my age.

 

[CraigC]

I despise terms like "hot load". It's too vague to have any meaning or usefulness.

What makes even less sense to me is this idea of pigeon-holing cartridges into tidy little boxes, regardless of the firearm they're chambered in. It is undeniable fact that some guns are stronger than others and have a broader range of capability, despite being chambered in the same cartridge. The most obvious and glaring example is that of .45Colt revolvers. They range from wrought iron SAA's to modern BFR's and FA's, capable of handling whatever you can throw at them. Why treat them the same? Same can be said for guns chambered in myriad cartridges like .32H&R, .38Spl, .357Mag, .41Mag, .44Mag, .44-40, .44Spl, etc., etc.. Why buy/carry a .454 when a large frame Ruger .45Colt will do what you want it to? Why buy/carry a .44Mag when a lighter, handier .44Spl will cover your needs?

As for the why, that varies too. It's usually for hunting or other outdoor purposes. I don't load 355gr bullets in my .44's to wander the hills of Tennessee but they come in handy when hunting big critters. Some folks just like to experiment. I'm sure there are those who do it for machismo but such thinking never entered my head.

 

[gramps]

Hear are a couple of questions along the same line. Why do some people load/shoot light bullets? heavy bullets? soft loads? heavy loads? Why do they shoot high power rifles? pistol caliber rifles? What use is a 50 BMG?

btw I wouldn't want a weak load in Bear country.

You haven't shot a .50 BMG have you? It will put a smile on your face for a week!
gramps

 

[Greenjoytj]

Question for the masses . Why "hot load" a cartridge ?
I see this all the time "interested in a hot load for a (fill in the cartridge).
Why not buy a bigger rifle or pistol ?
If you want to "hot load" a 45 colt why not buy a 454 Casull .
Just asking because I don't understand this concept .
Never "hot loaded" anything . I just went and bought a larger caliber .
Maybe it's just me but if you understand this philosophy enlighten me .
pulaski

The flip side to this question occurs when the shooter does go out and buy the much bigger gun. Fires one box of factory ammunition then starts asking internet forums for soft shooting mouse fart handloading recipes that must shoot very clean.
Makes me giggle every time I read wanted clean shooting load. I shoot a lot of real Black powder in my 45 Colt Ruger NV's.

 

[AJGUNNER]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

Just to be clear---this is a normal "booked" load, and not even a full maximum load.

 

[powder smoke]

You haven't shot a .50 BMG have you? It will put a smile on your face for a week!
gramps

A few of use were shooting a 50BMG at my buddy's camp. Wow is that cool. Was a
Sunday afternoon and a cruiser pulled in was a local female cop she ask what the heck were we shooting. After some small talk we offered her a try, she declined and left. Yup it's sure is fun. Was a Barrett bolt action very cool.ps

 

[wwb]

You haven't shot a .50 BMG have you? It will put a smile on your face for a week!
gramps

If ya wanna shoot .50 BMG and smile, ya gotta shoot 'em 4 at a time....

https://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/truck-quad.jpg

 

[6GUNSONLY]

A lot of very capable cartridges are seriously underloaded in factory ammo, i.e. .44 Special and some .45 Colt. It is often desirable to have a powerful sidearm in a reasonably lightweight, easily carried package. For instance, my converted OM flattop Blachawk or my S&W M24-3 in .44 Special are both a lot easier to carry than my Redhawk .44 Magnum, and with proper warm-but-safe loads can do a lot of what the bigger gun can do (though not all, to be sure). Proper loads for the intended purpose.

 

[grobin]

Examples are the 9/10mm. The PCC is disappointing as 9mm is pretty much loaded for the shorty pocket pistols with 4" or less barrels. A load with a slower burning powder than communally used will produce optimum ballistics. But will not perform optimally on a shorty pocket pistol!

the 10mm is often less than 500Ft lbs and a few <400! 700Ft lbs is not uncommon.
.40 is typically <400 rarely ~500 occasionally <300

Meanwhile 9mm is commonly loaded <400 but quite a bit is between 400 & 500Ft lbs!

As you can see 9mm and .40 are about equivalent, with some unfortunate 10mm in the same range. To get the best out of 9mm and 10mm you need relatively heavy loads although there is no need to exceed SAAMI.

 

[Flyover_Country]

I don't think that one could stuff enough slow-burning powder in the relatively small 9 mm case to make a carbine perform significantly better than a 4" service pistol. The slowest powder I see listed in my manuals for the 9 mm is Blue Dot, which would perform a little better in a carbine, but not a ton, it's not H110 for example. Most loads use powders no slower than Unique which pretty much tops out in a revolver length barrel and doesn't lose a lot when shot in a snubby.