There are STILL idiots out there with unmodified OMs...

[JimMarch1]

You have to know how your gun works. Period. IF it has a safety that can be relied on to a certain extent, you need to know what that extent is.

It's not just about safety, either.

Take that guy in Virginia who defended a convenience store with that Italian-replica Remington 45 SA. He gets a shot off, dives for cover, damages the gun somehow to where the trigger doesn't work.

Because he knows EXACTLY how his gun works, he reverts to hammer-slipping, keeps it running, stays in the fight and wins big.

Now, that gun has "no safety" either. Is that guy going to have an accident? HELL no. He knew that gun inside and out including (BUT NOT LIMITED TO) any and all safety-related issues. And knowing his gun saved his life and that of potentially several other people. One of the best examples of keeping your head under fire ever, ranks right up there with the best. Pretty good hit rate, too.

Ain't no WAY I'd ever, ever describe that guy as an idiot. Even without knowing his name, I consider him a personal hero.

 

[Kevin Keith]

I thought this thread was gonna be about .44 Special conversions...

 

[gak]

+1 to the comments about treating the .22 just like a .357 or .44 Mag. I'll add "even" pellet guns. Knew a guy in high school shot with one--and not even one of the pumped up Benjasheridans. Thankfully, he didn't die, but could have and was in a world of hurt for some time. Also, regarding the .22, remember Reagan and how close it--and he--came...

 

[Redhawk4]

While I don't want to usher in some Government mandated training scheme, it has always fascinated me that you can go into a store and walk out with a gun that potentially you have no idea how to operate or maintain. Most pages of the manuals seem to be focused on avoiding law suits that could be caused by utter stupidity, rather than "meaningful" information for anyone who has enough common sense not to look down the barrel while firing it.

I think there's a real danger that people could miss the pertenant safety points, because of all the totally obvious silly warnings. They make you think "I know all that" and discard the manual in favor of getting the shooting started.

 

[gak]

As someone said, hate to suggest any more regs in an already over-regulated world,..but; perhaps each manufacturer should have an 8x10 yellow placard with the basics--not apologies--of that particular firearm's operations and peculiarities (though understandably none would call them that!)...and what you do and do not do in the handling and operation of that firearm. This obviously does not inform or "protect" re-sale situations. But on further reflection, I'm about to talk myself out of this idea. Isn't this sort of thing how we came about having the unsightly warning labels on the tops and sides of Ruger revolvers?

As to this tragic (OP) story, back in the sixties, my father and uncle handled Colt SAAs without any "load one, skip one..." Later on, I think one of them said while out shooting at an "informal" range (logs and tin cans) "I think you're supposed to leave one empty under the hammer; just don't drop it..". So I'll +1 to; idiocy? - no - mis or under-informed and careless in dismissing or underestimating threat? Yes. And, again thankfully, no ADs or NDs. I think, back in those days, even if a drop did occur and it did go off--but no one harmed--some folks would just be "much more careful next time" without changing loading procedure. Perhaps idiocy then!

 

[coloradofarmboy]

:roll:

I don't know. This guy has just lost his wife, so I'm not sure calling him an idiot will help at this stage. It shouldn't have happened and we don't know the backstory behind this. Maybe his dad didn't take the time to teach him how to handle a gun? Perhaps his girl friend loaded it and forgot? We really don't know. I can imagine the guy and all the family have cried a truck load of tears.

At this stage, all we can do is lament the pain that this family must be going through and learn once again how important safety and training is important. Call me a softy, but can't find any consolation in calling him an idiot.

Sorry if this is offensive, but I really do feel bad for all affected and can't imagine what I would feel if it had happened to my son and his wife.

 

[CraigC]

I thought this thread was gonna be about .44 Special conversions...

I did too!

Bottom line is that firearms are dangerous weapons with the ability to kill or maim. Like any other dangerous implement, a certain degree of knowledge of its safe operation is necessary to prevent unintended injury or death. Period. Whether it's a firearm, motor vehicle, kitchen knife or chainsaw. No amount of safety devices will ever make up for ignorance and the world is always producing a better idiot who will find some way of defeating even the best idiot-proofing measures. It's unfortunate that in these litigious times the result has been the creation of the nanny state where no one is responsible for their own actions and the rest of us are made to suffer as a result of the manufacturer's efforts to idiot-proof everything under the sun. Rather than to educate.

It's a symptom of a much greater problem which starts at home, continues at school and ends with a nation of dumbasses that's beginning to crumble.

 

[COR]

I'm a an idiot I guess...I carry an OM with no transfer bar around quite a bit with 6 rounds...It has 6 holes for bullets! The cowboys never pulled out their "5 shooter"! What in the world would happen if I was attacked by 6 bandidos instead of the more common "5"?

 

[Aggie01]

Learning about the proper way to handle a traditional single action helped me identify that the same situation (unblocked firing pin over a live round) can occur in a T/C contender (Gen 1) in which the hammer is cocked, then lowered to rest. The hammer block falls out of the way until the action is reset.

The issue with carrying one with it in the safety notch is that those notches are relatively fragile, and the kind of blow that could set off a round under the hammer with it rest can often shear the 1/4 cock notch and have the same effect.

Look at how much beef Ruger added to the half cock notch in the conversion actions.

 

[Hugh]

Let's not bash on this poor soul.
I can't call him an idiot, or stupid. (and maybe she left it loaded, and not him - so let's say "they") Ignorant, yes. Stupid, no.
The guy is 24 and his wife was 19.
I'm 30, and I cut my SA teeth on a NM Ruger single six back before I thought girls were pretty. I grew up reading Loius L'amour books where the hero fired six shots and reloaded. I watched Clint Eastwood shoot single actions that sometimes carried more than six shots. I didn't have any idea how to properly handle a traditional single action until my mid twenties, and then I was first introduced to it by the works of John Taffin.

I had to teach my dad how to properly handle a traditonal single action. In his youth, it was rifles and shotguns only. Not stupidity, just ignorance.

I see how it could have happened. The blame here should lay with a society at large who tends to think other people are responsible for everything. I was in a wreck recently with an unlicensed 15 year old driver who piled out of his car and started blaming me for the wreck and yelling. He learned it from somewhere - and it for sure wasn't his dad, who showed up and took care of everything promptly and politely.

This couple "should" have known how to handle this tool, but they expected that someone else had already provided for them. I hope that wishful thinking is true on a higher level. This guy is going to need some help to get his life right again, and bashing him on the internet isn't going to help.

Amen. You never know how much you don't know. Sometimes you find out too late; the hard way. Sad happening. Prayer for this young couple.

 

[GaryA]

What in the world would happen if I was attacked by 6 bandidos instead of the more common "5"?

Well...yer ready for number 6 but yer SOL when it comes to number 7. Some days just go from bad to worse, don't they?

 

[JimMarch1]

I'm not "calling" him an idiot. Sorry about his loss and all, but...at this point, all I can do is point out a demonstrated fact. Call me brutal but ignorance is no excuse - he needed to know how that gun worked and he didn't bother, and now his wife's dead because of it. Mind you, I think he's been punished enough, I hope manslaughter charges aren't pressed...but if they are, the prosecutor would have...well, some fairly solid ground to stand on.

Again, I hope that doesn't happen.

It's much like the difference between an "AD" and "ND". There are very few of the former, all too many of the latter.

My .22LR trainer gun is a Cimarron Plinkerton, SAA-size/heft, with "no safety". I do a fair amount of desert shooting outside of Tucson in proper places and ways, and always carry both my NewVaq and that Cimarron just in case some psycho thinks I'm helpless if I've just unloaded my 357. That's the only time it's "carried for defense" and it has five CCI Stingers in it at that time, hammer down on empty.

That's how you carry an SA that has no internal, automatically applied safety.

COR, you need to rethink what you're doing, unless you were kidding...?

 

[COR]

We all have our ways of doing things. I am not advocating one way over the other but I am comfortable with my safety measures. I hunt with a guy that doesn't chamber a round in his rifle untile he gets to his spot. He will not move with a firearm if a round is chambered. To each his own, as a Libertarian at heart, I always fall on the side of personal responsibility.

I haven't shot my eye out yet.

This story is a tragic one but Monday morning quarterbacking doesn't provide much insight either.

 

[meanc]

Can someone point out "exactly" where it says the firearm was an unconverted old model ruger?
.
.
.

Here's another article stating "clearly" it was not an "unconverted old model"


http://heraldextra.com/news/local/artic ... ff092.html

As Richard opened the passenger door for his wife, a .22 caliber German-made revolver fell out of the car and discharged.

Don't you just hate assumptions...:roll:

 

[CraigC]

Probably an RG.

 

[eric conrad]

I do not like two young people being called "idiots" based on a news article.
This post has gone on way to long.
Eric

 

[JimMarch1]

Well don't that beat all. Crap. I mean, the first reporter more or less went out of his/her/it's way of muttering "Ruger"...

 

[ChuckS1]

Well, maybe he has an unmodified OM, too. Just kidding...

 

[Sonnytoo]

A horrible tragedy that could've been avoided with a little education. A young man's wife is dead because of his negligence and it is a burden he will carry for the rest of his life. So unfortunate.

Yep...sorry it happened.

 

[SamV]

OK, I am a little confused here. I understand the issues with the old single action models by Ruger and others. I understand the issues when there is no transfer bar. But are many of you saying that modern revolvers such as the sp101 or j frames smiths should be loaded with only four rounds with an empty chamber under the hammer? A great many carry those, as well as a great many security officers that still use full size revolvers in their work. Are some of you saying that no modern revolver is reasonably safe with a round under the hammer? If so how is that different than having a round in the chamber of most modern semi-autos.