The joy of open carry

[slippingaway]

My guess is if some one ins going to rob the Quickstop and they walk in and see a person packing that they will find another Quickstop. Rather you are packing or not you better be sure who is behind you. The only time I can see where you may be "targeted first" because of open carry would be in the case of some one planning to do a mass shooting. This all sounds like the typical "the bad guy will take your gun away and shoot you" line that the anti's use.

Criminals that rob quickstops do it because it's easy. They just want money, rarely do they even fire their weapons. Hell, sometimes the weapon isn't loaded, or even real. Even when they do shoot, they usually miss everybody, or their weapon jams.

Muggers and thieves target easy victims. They're willing to risk a couple years in jail, but most don't have it in them to kill somebody.

Now, psychopaths who go on shooting sprees in malls and schools are a different story.

 

[OldCowHand]

Wasn't the fellow who recently broke up a bank robbery carrying a single-action revolver in a Western-style holster? I can't remember the details of the story at the moment, but recall a discussion in which the robber was focused on the teller to the exclusion of the nearby customer who was openly carrying a firearm.

 

[KWYJIBO]

Say you're standing in line at the Quik Shop with your Slurpee and there are people behind you . A person could reach over and take the gun away and believe you me there are "hoods" that would do just that.

This seems like it could be a valid concern, but then again, do convenience store robbers tend to be opportunists who act on an impulse when they see a gun in another customer's holster? I think this type of crime is more often premeditated and prepared for, i.e., they arrive armed.

I'm not sure where I stand on the debate over the open-carrying bystander becoming the first target or being the deterrent force that prevents a crime altogether.

A few things that are clear: Situational awareness is critically important whether you're carrying openly, carrying concealed, or unarmed. Control of the weapon must be planned and practiced, and must always be on your mind. There are many reasons (both practical and political) that some people choose to carry openly. If you have a good reason, do so. But don't carry openly for no reason; it seems to put you at various types of risk that must be outweighed by benefits. If the benefits are not clear, why take on the risk?

 

[LTB45]

I carry everywhere that I can!! Post office and places like that obviously I leave it behind. In CT we need a permit to carry. I have been CCing for years. Last year a guy got arrested for blowing concealment as he was reaching for his take-out dinner at a restaurant. A waitress saw, called cops, they arrest him and take his permit away.
In Connecticut, there is NO LAW that says you must CC. Goldberg (the guy arrested) is now in the process of suing the state.

Many in CT have sent emails to the Attorney General asking for clarification on this subject. He continues to reply with the answer, "Ask the DPS". The DPS will not take a stance one way or the other.

Because of this many in the state are now OCing, since there is no law against it.

One way or another we will get a ruling on the legality of OC in CT

This link Page 7 of the pdf has all the details of what happened to Goldberg.

http://www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/goldbergcomplaint.pdf

Finally one of us got a reply from our attorney general.

This is the reply. The names have been changed to protect the innocent (The AG's name HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED, HE IS NOT INNOCENT HERE)

Reply from Attorney General Richard Blumenthal

Dear Mr. SMITH:


I appreciated your letter and I understand your concern with the
position of the Department of Public Safety on this issue. As you may
know, the question of whether permitted gun owners must carry the
firearm in a concealed manner is currently in litigation. While the
statute doesn't explicitly prohibit the open carrying of a weapon, the
Department of Public Safety feels that publicly carrying a weapon may
implicate criminal statutes in certain circumstances. The Office of the
Attorney General does not enforce those statutes.

Further, whether or not the Department believes that the current
law requires the concealed carrying of such weapon, our office has not
provided any legal advice on that matter as we have not been asked by
the Department to answer such a question. Given the concerns of the
Department -- which certainly seem legitimate -- the best answer may be
to obtain a legislative clarification on how permitted gun owners must
carry their firearms.

I regret that I cannot directly resolve this issue.

Many thanks, and warmest regards.

Sincerely,

RICHARD BLUMENTHAL

 

[steveinaz]

"the Department of Public Safety feels..."

"...the Department believes..."

"...Department of Public Safety feels that publicly carrying a weapon may implicate criminal statutes..."

"I regret that I cannot directly resolve this issue"

Wow, that letter is about as clear as mud. Gotta love it. These F'n officials kill me. Hey, a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do right? In the absence of intelligence, I'll make my own decisions for me and my family, it's my God given RIGHT.

I feel for you brother.

For the rest of you, if you're from a waffling state like this, show your dissatisfaction at the polls. Get rid of these IDIOTS. Arizona has firearms freedoms because we make a stand. You can too.

 

[Rclark]

Exactly, hiding a firearm because it "makes people nervous" is absolute BS.

I think you'd find that all us gun owners/users would agree with you.... Your talking to the choir.... However, in 'reality' this is the way it is... When you have those stupid high profile shooting we've had over the last years.... people tend to get nervous.... Look who was even voted into this countries highest office, his attorney general, his 'advisers', and friends.... It's getting to be a very scary place out there for liberty/freedom/constitutionally minded folk.... Where is the 'independent' mindset as to the 'dependent' that used to be the bulwark of this country? Sorry.... back to open carry..... Even in Montana we are getting more flack. I would guess it is mostly from folks who 'move in' ... When I was a kid, we'd pile the guns in the front seat of the truck, some of us would be carrying on the belt. Pull into a gas station fuel up, pay up (after we got gas too), and head to the hills for some shoot'n. Now we have to be a bit more 'circumspect' .... No more settling up after you buy gas .... Strange new world ... but that is reality.

 

[steveinaz]

I love Montana, you all are as hard-headed (or moreso) as us Arizonans. Arizona also unfortunately suffers from "implants" from Ultra-liberal kali and the new Kali, Colofornia (or Calirado, whichever you prefer) as I call it. They bring their idiotic political ideas with them, as if they haven't already ruined their own state so bad that they themselves moved. We've already lost Oregon to the "look but don't touch" society.

It's depressing....

 

[AzRebel]

When I was a kid, we'd pile the guns in the front seat of the truck, some of us would be carrying on the belt.

I'm still a kid at heart. I still do this, even having a handgun on my belt when I get fuel...or groceries, or stuff at the hardware store, etc.

Nobody seems to care. Maybe it's the Tombstone thing? I live about 20 miles from there, so maybe?

I almost always open carry, even though I've kept a valid CCW permit since 1995. I open carried for several years before that, and I still prefer it to concealed carry in the heat of the day.

Oh, and when I conceal, it's usually just a "shoot-me-first" vest that I put on as a cover garment to go into the bank or some such (they're common for even non-carriers here). I CAN conceal very well if need be, but I generally don't.

Daryl

 

[lanber]

I only open-carried until it was legal for me to carry concealed. I also have no bumper stickers on my car nor outrageous hairdo. I live by the words "low profile."

Amen to ALL of that!!!! 8)
I live in a small town where the cops and asst. D.A's want to make a name for themselves. They actually are not anyone's friend. Naive people may think so.

 

[Boge]

I have nothing against open carry in rural areas as obviously people are more attuned to firearms. However, in large metroplitan areas they are not and many forget not everyone in the world is "ga ga" over guns like the posters in this forum and it makes them rightfully nervous. My biggest beef with some (obviously not all) people who open carry is that they have a macho complex and really WANT people to look at them as if they are Clint Eastwood who's rode in to clean up the town. "I'm a REAL Bad A _ _ so don't mess with me 'cause I'm the man with the big iron on his hip!" Just because you can do something does not necessarily make it the morally upright thing to do. I doubt many of you here are going to marry someone of the same sex although you can do it in many states. It's legal but to many that does not make it right.

Finally, a lot of cops hate it as they tire of the calls downtown like "there's a man in Pizaa Hut with a gun!!" It brings a LOT of unwanted attention to gun owners in general that we do NOT need right now as we know that the Left leaning media is NEVER going to portray a gun owner in a good light. No news is good news.

 

[mykeal]

Is the Attorney General in CT elected or appointed? It's simply amazing that an elected public official would admit in writing that he can't (or won't) do his job. Do I have this right: the cops in CT are the authority in deciding whether a crime has been committed for purposes of prosecution, and the AG's office simply goes along with it?

 

[AzRebel]

My biggest beef with some (obviously not all) people who open carry is that they have a macho complex and really WANT people to look at them as if they are Clint Eastwood who's rode in to clean up the town. "I'm a REAL Bad A _ _ so don't mess with me 'cause I'm the man with the big iron on his hip!"

Um...I don't know about your area, or your people, but I do wonder how you becamethe expert on what other people are thinking.

Macho complex; look at me; I'm a real bad Axx?? Just because YOU think they think that way, doesn't make it so.

I've been open carrying for something over 25 years. Here, no one reacts. I get pretty much ZERO comments, and NO stares; which is just fine with me. If I wanted that kind of reaction, or was thinking along those lines, I'd carry something bigger than a J-frame most of the time.

Oh, I've OC'd a bigger firearm at times, but mostly when I'm headed out or returning from being out in the desert, mtn's, and such. No one stares at me wearing those, either.

I'm not in a big metropolis, but I'm in a decent sized town (50,000 maybe?), with a large military base on the west end. Firearms are still prettty well excepted here, and newcomers seem to accept it pretty readily as well.

I'm just a regular guy like most others, no better, no worse, and definitely no tougher than the next guy. A firearm is a tool, much like the leatherman Wave that I also carry daily.

Comments like your's, especially from one who enjoys firearms, gives us all a black eye. Get over it. OC was the only way to legally carry before about 1995 in most states, and it's still legal in many of them. Here it's STILL the only way to carry if you don't want to jump through the hoops t get a "permit" to carry. Not all want to, and some flat out won't.

Daryl

 

[LTB45]

Is the Attorney General in CT elected or appointed? It's simply amazing that an elected public official would admit in writing that he can't (or won't) do his job. Do I have this right: the cops in CT are the authority in deciding whether a crime has been committed for purposes of prosecution, and the AG's office simply goes along with it?

Yes he is elected!

Blumenthal is the longest-serving Attorney General in state history. Since 1990. The people of this state love this guy. He made a name for himself by suing big companies in high profile NATIONAL cases.

He is refusing to answer due to the fact that the state is being sued by a guy that was CCing and someone got a peak of his gun and called the cops. He was arrested and had to jump through hoops to get his permit back. Still hasn't been returned his weapon!!!!! 2 years I believe.

There is NO LAW on the books that state CC is required in Ct. So why was this guy arrested (his name is Goldberg. Google search, if you have some time to read) and why was his permit revoked and it took like 2 years to get it back?!?!?!?! and where is his gun?!?!?!?!?!?!?

This is why so many in Ct are making a statement by OCing. It is legal!!! Yet when we ask, can we? We get these BS answers!!

This is why I feel that ALL gun owners, whether you OC or CC or dont carry at all, NEED TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE HERE.

It is our right to keep and bear arms. However you want to interpret it, I dont care. If we are not breaking any laws, and we are arrested and considered GUILTY until proven innocent (2 years later). Then we all as gun owners HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM!!!

Any violation of a gun owners rights is a violation against all of us!!!!!

 

[KWYJIBO]

There is one technicality that may apply in the case discussed here. I don't know how it works in Conneticut, but in Utah you have to choose: you can either carry openly, which means the gun has to be clearly visible, or you can carry concealed, which means making reasonable efforts to ensure it will not be seen.

If Goldberg had a concealed handgun that became visible by mistake, it doesn't matter that open carry is allowed, or that he possessed a conealed firearm permit. A law still may have been breached. Of course, some reasonable latitude should have been applied by the police and the DA: he did not intentionally reveal his gun, it was a no harm-no foul situation, and he could have been given a warning or a minor slap on the wrist.

My point is, never mind that Conneticut allows open carry, that doesn't mean it's okay to "sort of" conceal or to carry "somewhat" openly.

 

[LTB45]

There is one technicality that may apply in the case discussed here. I don't know how it works in Conneticut, but in Utah you have to choose: you can either carry openly, which means the gun has to be clearly visible, or you can carry concealed, which means making reasonable efforts to ensure it will not be seen.

If Goldberg had a concealed handgun that became visible by mistake, it doesn't matter that open carry is allowed, or that he possessed a conealed firearm permit. A law still may have been breached. Of course, some reasonable latitude should have been applied by the police and the DA: he did not intentionally reveal his gun, it was a no harm-no foul situation, and he could have been given a warning or a minor slap on the wrist.

My point is, never mind that Conneticut allows open carry, that doesn't mean it's okay to "sort of" conceal or to carry "somewhat" openly.

In CT we have a permit to carry....that is all that is says on it. There is no law on the books about Concealed or Open. We have no laws that state you must CC or OC. (I think if it had to be one or the other, it would be just to confusing...LOL). In the past people would be written up by the Police for "causing a disturbance" whatever that means. Most in the past didnt fight and just let their permit be revoked. Asking for clarification on the actual state law has been futile. The AG says ask the Department of Public Saftey (DPS is in charge of issuing our permits), DPS says ask the AG..... Big Circle J---K.

Laws are on the books to tell us what we CANNOT do. If it is not a law on the books then it must be legal!!!

It is like us having to ask our lawmakers if we have the right to free speech. How would you feel if before you posted a statement on a forum you had to ask the government if you could say it a certain way?

 

[AzRebel]

It is like us having to ask our lawmakers if we have the right to free speech. How would you feel if before you posted a statement on a forum you had to ask the government if you could say it a certain way?

Or get a permit for it?



Daryl

 

[LTB45]

It is like us having to ask our lawmakers if we have the right to free speech. How would you feel if before you posted a statement on a forum you had to ask the government if you could say it a certain way?

Or get a permit for it?



Daryl

When it comes to carrying my gun, I personally don't have a problem with getting a permit to carry. Only because before I first got my permit (many years ago) my handgun knowledge was not that great. In Ct to get your permit you must take the NRA basic pistol course. I really did learn a great deal in that course.

I really believe that anyone that carries should have some sort of basic training in handling a weapon.

I am not out here looking for an argument from anyone that lives in a state where a permit is not required or if their state requires no training prior to obtaining a permit. I am just stating that, I personally gained a lot of knowledge form my NRA course many years ago.

 

[KWYJIBO]

In CT we have a permit to carry....that is all that is says on it. There is no law on the books about Concealed or Open. We have no laws that state you must CC or OC.

Good point. They need to clarify, and, in the absence of clarification, it sounds like he was within his legal rights. It sounds like the police had no legal right to arrest him or to confiscate his gun.

That character who's playing DA for you doesn't seem to understand the function of his position. It's probably because of the pending lawsuit that he will not give a straight answer on the matter. The courts are going to have to decide. Hopefully they will understand their role to interpret the laws and not try to write some new ones.

 

[kelbro]

It's funny that those of us in OC states don't consider it a big deal to see folks carrying. Never saw the Clint Eastwood/Rambo types here either. I guess it's just a frame of reference thing as far as the perceptions go. There are places that I don't feel the need to carry and I generally try to avoid the places where I think that I should be carrying.

Most criminals are opportunists first. That's why they chose the easy life or the drug habit that they need to support. They are looking for the easy score.

Our crime rates here, or lack thereof speaks to the issue of OC. I can't remember the last carjacking that I heard of and the only home invasions are drug related and both groups are usually armed.

Those of you that are afraid of a gangbanger taking your gun away, did you ever think that if your citizens would not have allowed your government to restrict your RTKBA, these thugs would not have taken control of your cities and you would not have been conditioned to think that it's not PC to exercise one of your constitutional rights?

Now if we could just keep pressure on our politicians, the liberal Calis and Colos will not be able to inflict their Socialist wishes on us. No offense intended to the good folks from CA and CO. Thank goodness our liberal-lesbo governor got recruited to the Obamanation in DC.

 

[kelbro]

If both concealed AND OC is legal, how can you be breaking the law either way???