LC9 trigger- lighter, shorter and accuracy improved

[George]

dogbait ,
thanks for the up date. Eric said he would send you another hammer. Remember he works with your and other peoples parts and as far as I know still has no source for his own parts. My guess is he has to order parts for your gun through ruger first.. I would hold him to that hammer anyway.. But just order parts for your LC9 from ruger if they ask why just tell them you would like to have extra parts on hand as you do for all your guns. I don't think the parts will be expensive and maybe Eric will come through for you.. Call him again be kind and curious and treat him with respect. asked for him then ask him where they are on getting your hammer he promised to you as you need your CCW.. I'm in NH and our ammo is all dried up too only a little here and there if ya get lucky that is.. at this time I have not been target shooting but the weather has helped me with ammo management.. I don;t know when or if we will ever see stocked ammo like we use too let alown pricing.. I think it's more then just a feeding frenzy with all of this on our part "we the people"

 

[RAL231]

Hello, I have been a Ruger owner for many years. My latest one is an LC9 which I am quite happy with, especially after trading in my Walther PPKS to get it. I wanted something lighter and more powerful. Although the DAO operation on mine is quite smooth and crisp I was wondering (after reviewing a number of modifications the people have come up with) why has no one pursued a mod that would increase the hammer spring preload when the slide is racked allowing the hammer to be closer to the position where it is disengaged.. I would think with that and a modified trigger to remove take up and over travel the trigger pull distance would be decreased allowing the shooter to more easily keep on target.
Thanks.

 

[George]

Good question.. I know some would like that idea.. I have thought of it also because I'm a 1911 kind a guy , but because our LC9 is going to be a CCW smoothness throughout the pull is key for me as the wife is going to be carrying this gun and the LC9 has just that.. I think safty is what Ruger was thinking when it put this nice little gun together.. I feel the longer lighter and smoother as it is with it's clean break is what I like about this gun it's not going off unless you go through that long pull.. If it was a range gun I would be looking for at least a shorter pull and i like your idea for only range use.. You know I picked up my 1911 the other day and was thinking with the trigger on that gun I would not want a bad guy on the other end of that gun if it was pointed at me knowing the trigger.. on the other hand the trigger on the LC9 with it's controllable long pull would make me Less nerves if I was on the business end of that gun trying to talk my way out of the situation. I know personally of someone that did just that with a light triggered gun. When your stress level is up your muscle response changes drastically and the guy i knew had a gun go off. The out come was not good in fact it was fatal with a .357 at close range the guy is losing most of his life now in jail for something he can't take back.. Just can't say woopsy and walk away .. Sorry long winded and a little off topic but hey I having my coffee now relaxing while we get nailed with a big snowstorm in NH.. George

 

[GKC]

Just a note.. I had a S&W model 19 .357 revolver go full auto after some guy worked on my gun. He was a cop that just got back from training at S&W! the F****n gun was over my head .. Fastest auto I ever shot!! If a revolver can go full auto I think almost any gun can... George

I readily admit I don't know most, much less all...but I'm really scratching my head over this one. How does a revolver go "full auto" ? Maybe I really don't understand the mechanics of a revolver's action, but I can't think of a way the hammer would be cocked while the cylinder rotates, and then the hammer is released, without some kind of trigger action...and what would cause that action? The only possible thing I can think of is the shooter unintentionally pulling and releasing the trigger repeatedly...perhaps in reaction to recoil...but that really isn't "full auto" as I understand the term.

Doesn't full auto mean repeated firing without releasing the trigger and pulling it again?

 

[George]

It had to do with a light hammer spring and a light sear spring. the recoil of a heavy .357 magnum load and weak wresting the model .19 because of a one handed hold.. The spring were cut short and ground to lighten the springs up .. I was told by my gunsmith " Really great guy that the combination of hold and recoil was added with the primer that caused the full auto condition.. It was massive! The first guy that did the action job did so on his own after a few drinks.. I was not there at the time he thought he was doing me a favor and I didn't know any better and with .38's it was fine as was a good two handed hold with .357's.. In any case the trigger was not pulled repeatedly there was just no time to do so, that's how fast it was. It sounded like one shot but the gun was over my head.. This was about 35 years ago and was my first gun. A very dangerous condition.. George

 

[dogbait]

Very good points George! I could not have said it any better myself. On that note, not all LC9 owners have the luxury of a smooth consistent pull on their guns as with mine. It was not only long and gritty but it stacked really bad toward the end of the pull. I consider myself better than average with most pistols but I could not consistently hit a 10" circle at 10 yards with this pistol. With the Galloway mod, I can now hit a 3" circle every time at 10 yards or I should say when the gun does not misfire due to the light strikes. One thing I feel every gun owner should learn to do is "KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY READY TO USE DEADLY FORCE" My sister-in-law who is a police officer and the CCW instructors will tell you the same thing. This prevents the adrenaline from causing an accidental shot to go off. Watch police officers when they draw their pistols, their finger should be laying parallel to the slide and not on the trigger until they are ready to shoot. My LC9 now only takes 5 lbs of pull to fire, which I rather have a stiffer pull but smooth and short. I am looking into finding a stiffer hammer spring or modifying it to go off at 7-8lbs. Eric advises not to attempt to shorten the hammer spring (by cutting the anchor end and re-bending) because his associates stated it would shorten the spring life and cause other problems. I disagree with part of that statement. Bending the end (on anchor end) and re-bending the loop does alter spring temper, but only in that area. Secondly, with his modifications, your LC9 never attains the maximum spring tension during firing due to the hammer being drawn back less than when with stock hammers. So, in my opinion, the results are light strikes. My LC9 used to take 9.5 lbs of trigger pull to fire and now only 5 lbs. By pre-loading the spring so I can at least get up to 7-8, I feel this will help resolve the light strikes. Eric keeps saying it will cause other problems and he has witnessed it already with many others. I don't understand how adding two pounds of tension to the hammer spring will hurt with his modification. I would like to hear others opinions, suggestions, or experiences on this also. Will keep pursuing this until I can get it right.

 

[GKC]

In any case the trigger was not pulled repeatedly there was just no time to do so, that's how fast it was. It sounded like one shot but the gun was over my head.

Man, that is scary.

About a year ago, I bought a used Model 19 (of course it was used...they don't make new ones any more :? ) and it had obviously had a trigger job. The DA pull was smooth and very light, lighter than an LCR, even...which has the best DA trigger I have ever felt. The SA pull was very light...scary light...I couldn't even tell I put any pressure on the trigger and the hammer would fall. I tried to get used to it for a couple of days, and just couldn't feel comfortable with it...so I traded it back in where I bought it.

Back to the LC9...it may just be me, but I don't think the LC9 trigger is bad. Not 1911 good, of course, but not bad on a carry gun, a defensive gun, and one that isn't a target gun. With the trigger as it is, I won't worry about my wife carrying it with the safety off...and as long as she can keep her shots within a reasonable group at shorter ranges normally encountered in SD situations, then that is fine. It isn't a range/target gun, as far as we are concerned...that's just my opinion, everyone else's mileage may vary. 8)

 

[George]

Dogbait,
I agree with Eric. I feel that with the type of system used to transfer the trigger pull to the sear and hammer could not take the added weight of a shorter or stiffer spring.. Just how the gun is made.. IMO if I was you i would see if you can get your hands on a non altered out of the box LC9 to fire and feel the out of box trigger.. you are the only case I have seen describing the LC9's trigger to be gritty.. Long yes some say they have a stacking weight just before the trigger breaks.. yes. But most LC9's have a very nice smooth trigger out of the box.. Sorry yours did not.. That stacking at the end of the trigger pull is what Galloway sells a spring for to fix that issue I think $6.00 .. I think it's 5mm's shorter then the original firing pin blocker spring.. This should all but eliminate your stacking feel at the end of the trigger pull... Maybe in your state it was a requirement.. Not sure.. Mine does not have it not enough that it bothers me.. Even go into a gun shop and get a good feel for the trigger on a gun they have in there display case and see if it was much better then your trigger was.. Dogbait what I am thinking is that you should order a new trigger bar and all other parts from S&W and that firing pin blocker spring from Galloway.. Or get another one from S&W and take off a few coils but don't over do it.. Get your trigger like it should be maybe a bit better by polishing it get the out of the box trigger back.. Long yes you can and will get use to it and in time may even prefer it on your CCW.. Trick is in the pull as it's so diffrint for most guns.. you need a steddy smoth pull right to the break.. if yout looking for the set or stagging point on this trigger it don't have one and you can't shoot it well looking for that sweet spot.. I still must say the LC9 has one of the nicest out of box triggers I Have seen in a long time.. the other was on my S&W M&P .22 .. Very clean and crisp.. unlike Most of the out of box M&P line. If you can get a good factory trigger on that LC9 of yours I think you will be happy with it.. I know it's not what you want to hear but it's what I feel I have to say.. If you ever have to use your gun and shoot someone the defence attorney will have that gun gone over by many places and Ruger and check it very closely. Sometimes it does not matter if your 100% in the right if you alter your gun in some way it anly makes the case harder.. George

 

[George]

Hi Ken,
Yes it was scary.. I think I smelled funny for a week after that.. I bet your 19 would have done the same thing with full house .357 loads fired one handed.. your trigger job sounded very much like the one that was unintentionally done to mine.. Lucky I knew good gunsmith friend that stopped what he was doing then day I went to him with my 19 and showed me what was done and how he was going to fix it with just a little bit of a spiffy trigger job.. I learned a lot from him over the years.. One heck of a nice guy..i agree with you 100 % with your LC9 and your wife's method of choice of carry with it and it's trigger.. I still think Ruger though this one out well and did a very nice job with it.. I just think Dogbait got a bad one it being gritty.. George

 

[dogbait]

George, I don't feel you understand exactly what I am stating on this website. The information I am giving here is for other LC9 owners who do not have that "smooth factory trigger" that you speak of (and there are others out there too). Not every factory LC9 has that smooth trigger and my gun was one of them. I owned it for a year before deciding to improve it. So here is the full story. My first time out shooting I noticed that the trigger was slightly gritty, long and stacking toward the end. It was very difficult to hit a 12" target at 10 yards. Even for a CCW at close range, it is not acceptable to me. After researching others with the same problem I did as many others have done. First disassembled and polished the trigger bar, entire hammer, hammer catch, trigger lift pin, firing pin blocker lever and even the firing pin (paying close attention to the contact areas). This step got rid of the "gritty" feel but not the stacking toward the end. Then I read an article about some LC9s stacking worse than others due to the "recessed area" on the firing pin rubbing on the firing pin blocker. As the trigger is pulled it has to lift the FPB lever to free the firing pin. With some older LC9s that had the serial number starting with 320--- , many had the longer firing pin spring. The longer firing pin spring puts unnecessary pressure on the firing pin blocker (also takes energy away from the firing pin) so the shooter feels this stacking when it starts to lift the blocker. The remedy can be attained in two different ways in which I completed both. I carefully honed and polished the forward shoulder of the firing pin (side that contacts the blocker) so the firing pin does not drag on the blocker. Also, Eric sent me the shorter firing pin spring which he did because "he thought" that was the problem for the light strikes. At this point, every part that linked to the movement of the trigger were highly polished and cleaned. After this, my pistol did not have any stacking nor gritty feel but instead it had a smooth and short trigger travel with a "crisp 5 lb pull". To compound the problem, was many of FTFs (due to the very light strikes) were with ammo using Berdan primers like Tulammo. I continue to ask Eric about a "faulty hammer spring" and he continually insisted that was not the problem! He even said "that I should not be using steel cased ammo because it will void my warranty with Ruger". (Well, I told him that is the "only" type of ammo I can get right now due to the ammo shortage) After 30-40 emails and three months, I was very disappointed how things were going. I even spoke with many other LC9 owners with the same Galloway modifications and "none" of them had a 5 lb trigger pull! Eric, just thought he recessed the hammer hook area too deep so I asked how to check the measurement and checked it. It turned out to be exactly within specs. Now he wants me to try some new lighter hammer springs! Lighter! So, I disassembled my LC9 again and measured my stock hammer spring. Factory hammer springs should measure 2.50" and my was .070" too long! I recently spoke with Ruger and they even said that some LC9 owners had the same problem. The tension on mine was still strong enough to fire any type of ammo when I had the stock hammer and trigger bar. But after putting the Galloway parts in, the light strikes appeared (because the reduced hammer travel and reduced tension on hammer spring). Three months later, I am still trying to convince Eric about this without any luck. His modifications would have been fine if my pistol had the lighter firing pin spring and the correct stock hammer spring. Instead, he sent me some modified anchor pins that he called "booster pins". I asked what these were for and why would you send them if others don't use them? He said it would increase hammer spring tension!!! Really? These modified booster pins were flat and taller anchor pins (that attach to the lower end of the hammer spring) and would not allow you to put the plastic cover cap back on to the grip! Do not misunderstand what I am stating here. I feel Eric Galloway has done a fantastic job in creating a better trigger for the LC9. I would even recommend it for those who dislike the long trigger pull. But,,,,I did not like the way he handled my situation. Sending me the modified "booster pins" to resolve the problem was like using duct tape to fix the problem (it did not address the real problem). After measuring the hammer hook recess and replacing the firing pin spring, he should have known this was the only thing left to check. I am glad I measured it but the "obvious" was a 5lb trigger. Anyone that has the mods "with a five pound trigger" is going to have problems with light strikes because this does not have the needed force for firing especially when using Berdan primed ammo. The 5 lb trigger should be a "red flag" to LC9 owners that they may have FTFs due to light strikes. Also, I feel a 5lb double action trigger is way too light for a CCW pistol. I prefer the 7-9lb but short and crisp. George, the only reason I am writing all this is to let you know and others know exactly what I went through trying to resolve the light strikes. Eric got a bit upset when I mentioned the hammer spring two months ago. From there, it was like he was trying to prove his point that the hammer spring was not an issue (why then, sending me booster pins?). I just thought, "why not eliminate" that possibility? Anyways, for those out there reading this and are interested in what causes light strikes with or without the Galloway modifications in the LC9. Listed are things I have discovered that can contribute to this problem.
1. Firing Pin Spring too long (I think the old ones were 25mm and new are 20mm, Ruger now supplies the shorter version if memory is correct)
2. Firing Pin channel blocked (some complain about brass blocking the FP channel after using certain ammo)
3. Faulty hammer spring (factory specs are 2.50" and tension should result approx. 9+lb trigger pull)
4. Too deep recess in hammer from modification, email Eric for the proper measurement.
5. Ruger advises not to use steel cased ammo (Berdan primer which is harder than Boxer primers can also contribute to light strikes)

END OF STORY!

 

[George]

Dogbait, I hear ya! I stated that your gun was one of the ones with a bad out of the box grittiness and also had a trigger stacking issue... I agree you got a bad gun.. So you found out the ruger now has shorter hammer springs, great. And the shorter firing pin springs we all know where at fault with light strikes. I thank you for going through the time and trouble of explaining your story so well.. I'm just saying if you got the gun back to stock you would be better off at that starting point then where your are now.. in fact you would be much better off now knowing that ruger now supplies shorter hammer springs along with shorter firing pin springs and if you add to that the Galloway firing pin blocker springs you would have a fantastic starting point as you gun should be smoother then mine with less stacking at the end of trigger pull and sounds to me like you would also gain a stronger hit on your firing pin.. So maybe the Steel cased ammo would work for you even if it was just for range use.. Ruger states not to use it.. But hey if that's all you can get.. Also get some good defensive carry ammo online as there is no price to high if it's a life saver.. I hope you now know I know some of the frustation your feeling.. Heck I feel for you! George

 

[dogbait]

George, its not that Ruger now offers shorter hammer springs. Every stock hammer spring should be 2.50" long and my stock hammer spring was longer. Somehow, I ended up with a spring that was too long. All LC9 pistols should have hammer springs that measure 2.50". I just want to make sure that others are aware of this so they have someway of determining whether their hammer spring is within specs. Ruger tech also mentions that measuring the hammer spring for length is only part of the determination for proper spring tension. They stated that even some springs that measure 2.50" can still not give the proper tension if the "SET" is wrong. The only way you can be completely sure is measure for the length of the spring (2.50") and then measure the pull which should be around 9-9.5lbs of pull. Hope this makes sense.