Confounded by my new rifle 338AI
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wunbe
Buckeye
So it is NOT a 338-06! ignore all comments on that cartridge.
.308 brass is your starting point.
wunbe
.308 brass is your starting point.
wunbe
huntsman22
Blackhawk
So much for knowing what you're buying...... Where the heck did 338-06 come from? The ad? Surely the ad was correct, and pics were included of the cal stamp. Compare the cartridge drawings between the 338-08AI and the 338Fed and see if the 338 Fed will be able to be used for forming after all.
Coyote Hunter
Single-Sixer
grobin said:
Fire-forming cases is not at all dangerous if you pay attention to the basics. I fire-form 6.5-06AI using full power 6.5-06 load data from Hodgdon and .25-06 cases. No need to turn the case mouths as the brass thins, not thickens when going from 25 caliber to 6.5mm. Trimming is something I do to all my cases anyway. Pressures are mild and there is a 5% velocity loss compared to the published 6.5-06 data.
There hasn't been much "need" for new cartridges for decades. The latest rage, the 6.5 Creedmoor, is really nothing new - the 6.5x55 was introduced in 1891, 127 years ago. The .30-06 was introduced 112 years ago, but was a direct descendant of the .30-03. In the '50's and '60's we got the .308 (a descendent of the .300 Savage from 1920), the 5.56 (a child of the .223 Remington, the parent of which was the .222 Remington), and the 7mm RM and .300WM (both descendents of the .375 H&H. If you can't get the job done in NA with one of those, you are incompetent.
That said, wildcats are the poor man's way of inventing new cartridges to fill a specific need. My 6.5-06AI is a perfect example. Starting with a naked action, I wanted a rifle that would shoot to 1200 yards while remaining supersonic, with minimal recoil, using bullets in the 130g to 140g weight range. A standard 6.5-06 might have done that but properly head-stamped brass was $2 per case. Going to the AI version and necking up .25-06 brass solved a variety of problems. First, the fire-formed brass would no longer fit in a standard .25-06 chamber, eliminating the possibility that someone (daughter, grandchild, son-in-law?) might mistakenly try to use it in a .25-06 at some future date. Second, it met the 1200 yard supersonic range goal with lower pressures than would be possible with a standard 6.5-06 case (if such a case would even get there). Finally, using a non-magnum case meant no changes to the action's bolt face or the magazine feed lips or follower. Simple.
These days one might ask why not go with the new 6.5 PRC, which would be a great option for some, but fails to match the bolt face of the naked action I started with. In any case, the 6.5-06AI is faster than the 6.5 PRC, which is nothing more than a commercial version of yet another wildcat - the 6.5-300 RCM. In fact, many or even most of the cartridges popular today were originally developed as wildcats or commercially developed using existing cartridge cases.
When I look in my safe I see a lot of firearms chambered for cartridges developed from other cartridges:
.223 Rem (.222 Rem)
5.56 Nato (.223 Rem)
.22-250 (250-3000 Savage)
.243 Win (.308 Win)
.257 Roberts (7x57)
6.5-06AI (.30-06 via .30-03)
.280 Rem (.30-06 via .30-03)
7mm RM (375 H&H)
.300 Blackout (.300 Whisper via .221 Fireball via .222 Rem)
.308 Win (.300 Savage)
.30-06 (.30-03)
.300 WM (.375 H&H)
.338 WM (.375 H&H)
.375 Win (.30-30 WCF)
In fact, the only centerfire rifles I have which might have used original case designs are a .30-30 and .45-70.
While I will grant that the need for wildcats has been greatly diminished over the last 100 years, there are still reasons to keep developing new cartridges for the future. Few will survive to become popular but those that do will do so because they fill a need. Unless new, original cases are developed, all new developments are essentially wildcats, whether privately or commercially developed.
Well now you know what caliber it really is and there is handloading data available if you put that cartridge into the asking mode on the web. I did look in my vol 1 and 2 PO Ackley books but it was not listed.
I fire form 30-30 win to 30-30 AI it is easy but, it is also a different cartridge. I load a win cartridge into the gun and fire out comes the AI case.
I did use 45-70 brass and a 3 piece die set to make them into a .33 win cartridges. It was to much work in my opinion. About 15 to 17 of 20 cases fired split. They needed to be annealed and some still split. I saved up a bunch of money and had a gunsmith rebore/re rifle that barrel to 45-70. That ended that problem.
I fire form 30-30 win to 30-30 AI it is easy but, it is also a different cartridge. I load a win cartridge into the gun and fire out comes the AI case.
I did use 45-70 brass and a 3 piece die set to make them into a .33 win cartridges. It was to much work in my opinion. About 15 to 17 of 20 cases fired split. They needed to be annealed and some still split. I saved up a bunch of money and had a gunsmith rebore/re rifle that barrel to 45-70. That ended that problem.
One should be able to fire 338 Federal in this rifle with no problem. The case dimensions of the 308 and 338 Federal are the same, particularly the base to shoulder distance which is 1.560". Once you fire the Federal case it will become an improved case, ready for the die set on hand. Mr. Ackley designed his Improved rounds so that a shooter could still use the original round if need be or to form cases. Bob! 8)
Bob that was my initial thought as what seems to be different is the angle of the shoulder. I had seen a post on the shooters forum showing the dimensions of each round. It make me a little nervous to be behind the trigger for the first round however
The shoulder angle of the 338 Federal and 308 is 20 degrees. The Ackley Improved is 40 degrees. When the 338 Federal or 338/08 is fired the case expands and fills the chamber. This blows the shoulder out to 40 degrees and fire forms the case. I used to fireform 280 Remingtons into AI by using a light charge of Unique and cream of wheat as a plug. One could shoot 338 Federals exclusively if need be and simply save the fireformed brass for later. The thing is that 338 Federal ammo is readily available as is 338 Federal brass. I load my 338 Federals with the 200 grain Speer hot core bullet and MR-2000 powder. I know of no other user friendly way to make improved cases other than buying them already made like the 280 AI. Bob!!
UmpquaCharlie
Buckeye
Huntsman was spot on!!!!
If fire forming is too scary, sell it. Since PO ackley came out and before many guys fired formed many different cases.
Did you read my earlier posts. I was never unnerved, doubt I will be next time. I am not you and that is not my gun. Do what is best for you. If selling it at a loss is what happens, chock it up to learning and move on. Keep it and sell it years from now, will it make you money on that day, no one on here can know that.
