Anyone use HS-6 for 9mm?

[tiger955]

I have been reloading for 357, 38, and 44mag for a few years and am pretty comfortable with reading load recipes, testing loads, and looking for over pressure signs.
I have been loading for my P89 with 115 plated bullets and some near max loads of HP-38 which has been working ok. I was getting low on HP-38 and my dealer was out so I decided to try some HS-6. According to the data it makes good velocity at lower pressures. I had been using CCI primers and was about out of them too and got a good deal on a brick of PMC's, primers are primers right?
My problem... According to the load data in the 2 books I have, HS-6 start at 5.9-6.1 gr. and max is 6.9-7.0 gr for 115 gr plated bullets. I figured with a strong Ruger like mine I could skip a step and started with 6.3 gr weighed on a Lyman balance beam scale (every charge was weighed). I fired 50 rounds and they seemed similar to factory loads according to recoil, muzzle blast and accuracy (I don't have access to a chrono).
The gun functioned fine but when I picked up my brass and started looking at them the primers were cratered badly (overpressure?)
I stripped the gun and tried a few fired cases in the chamber with the barrel in my hand and they slide in and out easily, no other pressure signs I can see with my novice eye.
Question??? Anyone else use HS-6 in a 9mm? What loads? Are the standard PMC small pistol primers extra soft?
My loads are well below max, but the cratered primers bother me. Any of you more experienced reloaders have any suggestions?
BTW my bullets mike out at .3545 to .3555 and i am using a rather light crimp.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Question??? Anyone else use HS-6 in a 9mm? What loads? Are the standard PMC small pistol primers extra soft?

Hi,

Please take this w/ an appropriate dose of skepticism (let's just say I have my own reasons to double check Hodgdon's recipes more than others'):

Hodgdon's tells us today HS-6 is identical to the old, discontinued Win 540 and the recipes are interchangeable.

That said, when BOTH powders were on the market, the recipes were NOT identical. I still have a fair amount of the original 540, and have used the old WINCHESTER recipes in the 9mm w/ 115 gr FMJ and plated bullets, and 124-125 gr LRNs, both hand cast and commercial.

Starting loads (Winchester's recipes can range around a half to a full grain LOWER than Hodgdon's depending on bullet) w/ "real" 540 and Win WSP primers have always worked fine for me w/ the various bullets mentioned. I haven't "worked up" any except the FMJs, but saw no pressure problems w/ them. This, of course, is "in MY gun" stuff!

Dunno a thing about PMC primers, but their brass has proved to be "softer" than other brands when I've used it. Could be their primer cups are as well? Remember, too, there are cases where the appearance of the primers can be a poor indication of pressures...

Suggest dropping back to the lowest of the starting loads in your books w/ those primers and see what happens so you have a "base line" for comparison. If the results are still suspect, try a change of primers. A primer is NOT a primer, you know?

BTW, $100 will get you a perfectly acceptable chrono... (hint, hint )

Rick C

 

[tiger955]

I am using a Hodgdon's load book and a Midway 9mm LoadMap. I had been using CCI primers which look like nickel? The PMC's look like brass. Any other pressure signs to look for in an auto? I know sticky extraction in a revolver is a bad sign, but the auto just slings them out which is why I tried a few fired casings in the chamber.
I loaded some 357 wadcutters with these primers the other night. I used proven data from target loads I have been using for a good while that are definitely not too hot. I will have to shoot some and take a good look at the primers after.
Thanks for the tip on the chrono, any you recommend?

 

[WESHOOT2]

Your load is fine, but I too suggest backing off just a mite.
The primer cratering is not particularly indicative of excessive pressure, but can peel, or cause certain issues with the firing pin tip, either of which has some potential to affect function.

I have found over the years and multitudinous auto-loading pistols used that CCI is always a good choice.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Thanks for the tip on the chrono, any you recommend?

Hi,

I'm still using an old Oehler 33 purchased around '80-'82! Oehler's out of the "consumer" grade business today, though a quick look at their website yesterday showed they did make a special run of the Model 35 last year: it was a very popular unit. But there's no reason to drop nearly $600 on one for most of us!

The Chrony folks make what's probably the most popular "inexpensive" model out there right now. Check Midway or other sites--I think the base model is the F-1. It has the display built in to the unit that contains the skyscreens, and can take a bit of squinting to read.

So a lot of folks take a step up and get the one that has the "head unit" on cables so it can be read, reset, etc. from the shooting station. It's been a while since I looked at them, but I think it's $25-$30 more than the base model. For myself, I'd consider it worth the extra few dollars...

As you move up in the price scale, you probably won't see any noticeable change in the accuracy of each shot reading. What you'll find is more bells and whistles as far as what the machine tracks and computes for you, computer hookup capability, printers, that kind of stuff. In other words, it becomes more convenient, so you'll want to figure how much you want to write down, maybe input into your computer, vs how much you want the chrono to do, and decide from there.

Good luck!

Rick C

 

[WESHOOT2]

I have been happy for many years with my PACT ONE.
Its brain is separate from the parts you'll accidentally shoot.

 

[Tam 212]

Its brain is separate from the parts you'll accidentally shoot.

Sorry gents, nothing to add here.

Except that this is a quotable statement......

 

[Cherokee]

+1 for Weshoot2 posts. I use the old 540WW and have used charges in the upper end with jacketed and cast but have not had any primer problems using CCI. Performance has been fine. I also have an old Oehler chron.

 

[nitro-express]

I cannot seem to nail down a definitive answer on this. When HS-6 first came out it was touted as "very similar to 540MS", now they say it's "the same as discontinued 540". Yet the data (at least for shotgun loads) indicates that it might be somewhat similar to 540 but I wouldn't use HS-6 with 540 data. I treat them as different powders. The same with H414 and 760, it's only very recently that the data for both is similar. I took apart some of my old 414 ammo and the old stuff didn't even look the same as the new stuff.

I appreciate Hodgdon, they are competition and that keeps the prices lower for the consumer, but I'd appreciate the truth about what is in those cans.

I still have 8 cans of HS-6 from the late 70's early 80's, I wonder what it really is.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Thanks for the tip on the chrono, any you recommend?

I just got this chrono on sale a few months ago and although I haven't used it that much it has worked perfectly and although there are accessories you can buy if you want to I find no problems seeing it 10' in front of my gun.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/852429/competition-electronics-prochrono-digital-chronograph

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

I shoot a 140 gr cast SAECO #383 over 4.8 gr HS-6. Anywhere from 4.6 to 5.0 gr shoots real fine for me.

 

[WESHOOT2]

(To reboot this, I add that numerous USPSA GMs are using HS6 for their '9 Major' loads; accurate, drives the compensator well, offers a reduction in perceived recoil, no erosion problems currently being discussed, good stuff).

 

[Laserbait]

I've used HS6 for years. Never seen anything like that before when using CCI or Winchester primers. Not even with hotter loads. I would change primers first.

I have never used any of the korean or russian primers.

 

[PO2Hammer]

HS-6 delivers top velocity for me in 9mm (.38 Super too), never had any pressure signs using CCI primers.