American Old West Gunmen/Pistoleer

[tas6691]

Gibson,

I am really enjoying this. I cant decide which I enjoy the most. So far all your pieces have been great. They bring back all the memories of the gunfighter books I read as a kid, I am just really enjoying reading your take on these guys. PLEASE keep it going!!

Thank you!

 

[SAJohn]

A thing about the Old West that I could never figure out was that a simple horse or cow thief or, in this case, a train robber would get the death penalty while notorious killers like J W Hardin would only get a dozen or so years of prison time.

 

[SAJohn]

Here is more than you will ever want to know about the science of hanging a human being:
http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging2.html

 

[SAJohn]

Gibson, I especially admire the way you avoid taking sides, just presenting facts as best they are known and your best guesses as to what really happened.

If only the news media of today could do half as well.

John

 

[29aholic]

A voice in the wilderness! Thanks, John.

I can tell from the "views" ever rising count that we have "viewers" but it's nice to hear and know that you are reading the articles, buddy.

I agree about the "Black Jack" hanging (beheading). Attempted armed robbery first cost him an arm and then a head.

Man, if I went back and cleaned these articles up, i.e. removed typos, corrected syntax, etc. This might make a good thread

I think it is a GREAT THREAD. It took me a while to read through so I could comment.
It is interesting that for years everyone thought Billy the Kid was left handed, but finally someone realized the famous photograph of him and his Winchester was a reverse negative as the loading gate appeared to be on the left side of the gun.

 

[tuskbuster]

mite be behind the times but just seen on encore channel ,the original tin type of BILLY sold for 2,000,000 .00

 

[SAJohn]

A thought about Captain Davis, I wonder if Bill Hickok knew about the story. After Wild Bill's death, his corpse did not show all the bullet and knife wounds he claimed as a result of the McCanles gang massacre where he said he killed most of the bad guys with his knife.

 

[SAJohn]

Gibson, I predict this thread will become legend. It will go on as long as you are up to it, no one will cut it off.

I for one really enjoy the less known gunmen stories you tell so well. The Chisolm Trail is well known but not John's exploits so I would vote for him. Butch is interesting because of the possibility that he actually lived out a long and full life.

Wyatt is fun because he really wasn't the well known until the O. K. incident and because he may also have been a horse thief and pimp in his earlier days. Something that Hollywood seems to not know about. It was also interesting that a Hollywood stage hand named Marion Morrison knew him.

John

 

[COR]

Gibson...I just want to Thank you for this thread. This is one of the most amazing (and mostly objective) accounts of the "Old Days" as I have ever seen. It is truly amazing!

I have also followed the thread at the the other forum regarding your sons struggles...as a new father of a 8 month old boy I can only begin to imagine the strain it takes on you. He is in our thoughts, as is your family. I am guessing that sharing these accounts of also gives your mind some time to wander away from the stresses of your day to day life. Please know that it really makes my day when you add another story or post. As another poster recently noted, this is a "legendary" set of posts that will go on for along time. Thanks again sir. It is truly appreciated.

Curt

 

[don44]

Very good as always. Keep it up. Good news about your son. Wild Bill Hickok and Custer are part of the old west and I like the way you've treated them.... Thanks.

 

[29aholic]

I hope everyone enjoyed the "Mad Trapper of Rat River".

Maybe not, I don't know. BUT I found the whole thing fascinating. The Discovery channel even funded DNA tests fairly recently done.

The story it self with the exception of the ancient airplane is mostly right out of our "Old West".

Scaling that 7,000 foot peak in 50 below with a blizzard and likely at night with zero climbing equipment is possibly the most amazing thing I have ever heard.

After some looking, it appears that King was shot with a jacketed .38 auto bullet. It also seems clear that Johnson carried three rifles, a .22, a .30-30, and another.

Tomorrow another. . .

Fantastic, I guess I didn't realize the movie was based on a true story. Dating myslef a bit I saw the movie at the theater when it came out.

 

[29aholic]

Who made that canvas cartridge belt??

 

[bogus bill]

I havent been keeping up with this thread, and a lot to read. Is this about historical events at random? If so, has the mountain meadow massicure been discussed here yet? I live in the area it happened and my MIL is a gr, gr, grand daughter of john doyle lee, the only man exicuted for his part in the massicure of 122 people on the francher wagon train 9-11-1857. Also about 16 children were spared under the age of 8 as it was thought they wouldnt remember it. They were sent back to arkansas. Our daughter married a decendent of one of those orphans two years ago!
I have studied the incident best I could. Maybe others here know something and we can get something going on it. It seems its a huge historic incident in the old west that isnt real well publisied. There was a movie made on it starring jon voight. Its called "September Dawn". We had to drive to mequite nevada to see it as it seems probley do to local mormon interfearance.

 

[BIGGUY]

Who made that canvas cartridge belt??

I don't know if that is an original, a copy, or just something similar, but I read that there were belts like that issued by the military to the troops and there were also pictures of some Indians such as scouts wearing them.

 

[WMB30]

29aholic

El Paso Saddlery makes canvas belts
Bill

 

[etdbob]

Noticing how both Jim and John's attention, and more importantly, their guns as well, Lull seized the opportunity and pulled a small No. 2 Smith & Wesson pistol out of his coat pocket. Out of the corner of his eye, John saw Lull's action and began bringing his shotgun back to face Lull. As John was doing this, Lull took no time to aim and fired a single shot. The bullet hit John in the throat and he fell back in his saddle. He also instinctively fired both barrels of his shotgun. The loads of buckshot hit Lull throughout his shoulder and arm. Jim suddenly turned towards Lull and fired a shot at him, which missed. Lull then dropped his gun and, with his good arm, turned his horse to face the direction that Boyle had already fled in and took off.

Amazing. This is the first documented use of a .32 caliber No. 2 Smith and Wesson in a gun fight that I have seen.
For not aiming, he did darn good hitting his adversary in the throat, both of them being on horseback and all.
Poor guy did get both barrels of buckshot dumped in him, but at least he got his man...

 

[bigbore45colt]

I'm just getting caught up on all of these posts. Fantastic posts, articles and stories. Thank you so much, Gibson, for posting these. I'm really enjoying them.


I wanted to share a few pictures of the St. James Hotel (formerly the Lambert's Inn, in Cimarron, NM where Clay Allison impaled the severed head...

These were taken in June, 2011 on a side trip I took from the Shootists' Holiday.

BB45C

 

[etdbob]

He walked towards the back door of the saloon. When within 3 or 4 feet of the door he turned and came up behind Wild Bill. He put a pistol within 2 or 3 feet of Wild Bill's head and fired. As he fired he said, "take that." The ball entered the back part of Wild Bill's head and came out of the right cheek entering the left wrist of Captain Massey. The shot killed Wild Bill almost instantly. He did not move and said nothing. He sat in the chair a couple of minutes and then fell over backwards. I made an examination of Wild Bill and found him dead. The saloon stood nearly the same as this court house, with a door in each and and bar and tables inside. The table where Bill sat was nearly in the middle of the room. He was facing the bar. When the defendant came in I was weighing out gold dust.

The council for the defense here requested that the witness for the prosecution who are not on the stand leave the court room while any one of their number is being examined. The request was granted so far as it applied to witnesses to the main facts.

Shingle continued – After firing the defendant walked backward toward the back door, with his revolver in his hand hold it up. As I went to look at Bill, McCall pointed the revolver at me and snapped it. I got out of the house. Carl Mann was the only one left in the house, and McCall. Saw the defendant a half an hour later, when he was arrested. Was present at the trial, which was held in a theater building in Deadwood on the third day of August. McCall said to the court that he had killed Wild Bill and that he was glad of it, and if he had to do over he would do the same thing – that Bill had killed a brother of his and he did it for revenge. The weapon used was a Sharps improved revolver 18 inches long with a piece of buckskin sewed around the stock.

OK that's a new one on me – An 18" Sharps revolver???
What the heck is that?
Interestingly, it doesn't say he drew the weapon – Might he have walked in with some sort of carbine in his hands ( complete with buckskin repaired stock? ) ? Yet the weapon is referred to as a "pistol".

Whatever it was, it seems to not have been very reliable, and missfired on the second try.

 

[Frank V]

Gibson

I am enjoying your writings about the history. I really like the western history between the periods of about 1860/1920

If you continue to write like you did about Hickok, I'd sure enjoy reading it.
Thanks for your time, research, & writing.

Your pictures are fantastic too.
Frank

 

[eric conrad]

Gibson, please keep it coming. This is better than a free education.
I look foreward to the next installment.
Thank you Eric