44Special and 45C....Does One Have an Advantage?
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CraigC
Hawkeye
I choose both and I can see ZERO difference between the two with comparable loads. All this crap about less recoil with the .45Colt is wishful thinking.s4s4u said:
wizofwas
Buckeye
Jim Luke said:
Key word, discernible. Both will blow a big hole right through most animals with comparable rounds. Is the slightly bigger hole a 45 will make better? In most cases, probably not. For the non-reloader, I still give the edge to the 44Mag.
Jim Luke said:
I really had to laugh at this one. Yes there is a reason the 44Mag is the market leader between the two. Much better marketing!!!! The 44Mag had a movie that said it was the best. And what did the 45Colt have? A TV show. And yes the 45 was a better round than the 44 in the show. Also, all 44Mag revolvers will shoot most 44Mags. Just not the Ruger only rounds. But most 45Colt revolvers will only shoot the 45Colt cowboy loads or other light loads. In reality, it doesn't really make any difference if the 45Colt is a marginally better performer in the field, with all things being equal. The 44Mag just has better marketing. And I still give the edge to the 45Colt for the reloader. I simply like the bigger diameter and also believe the 45 is the best all around handgun caliber made.
In the end, if I was the OP, I'd try to get some of my friends that have these weapons out to a range and get them to let me try shooting them and see what I liked best.
One benefit the magnum has over both is that while you are out hunting and forget to throw a box of ammo in the truck, when you pull over to buy some most places will stock 44 magnum ammo, not so much the special or heavy 45 colt. I've tried all three and went with the 44's. The colt didn't do anything for me except have another caliber to fuss with. These are my two packing guns for what the OP was describing, and one contender. (I'm a sucker for a special).
Tall shorty super
629-4 mountain gun
This one just showed up, a bit of tweaking before she goes outside to play, but should be a sweetheart. Stainless 44 special flattop.
Tall shorty super
629-4 mountain gun
This one just showed up, a bit of tweaking before she goes outside to play, but should be a sweetheart. Stainless 44 special flattop.
maxpress
Buckeye
WOW, I really like that knife. Who was the maker?
Nalapombu
Bearcat
LOTS of good info from you guys to think about. Thank you all for taking the time to help me and give me advice. I appreciate it.
I didn't mean to cause an argument though. Looks like there are passionate owners on all sides. Nothing wrong with that at all.
One of you mentioned that I should get my friends to go to the range with some of these and let me try them....the problem is that I don't have any friends here in Houston. I haven't lived here long enough and the time I have lived here I have tried to make friends by asking for help to find places to hunt hogs with my bow. It hasn't worked well at all. I've never really seen anything like it. Those that hunt here will NOT help you out at all. When you tell them you are new and would like to hunt but are having trouble finding a place...they just don't care. I haven't had a single person in 3 years offer to even give me advice on hog hunting. That's a whole other story though...if you really want to know how it is coming to this part of Texas and trying to find help hunting....PM me and I'll tell you.
Anyway, one mentioned the desire to not carry a boat anchor when bowhunting and that might influence my decision to pick a lighter weapon. I would like to hear more about this. If I can get close to the same efficiency with lighter weight, I'll take the lighter weight pistol. Then again that also means more felt recoil. I also like the thought of being able to go with 45ACP rounds with a spare cylinder too.
I think I would probably get a reloader before I buy a pistol like this. I have been wanting one for a while anyway.
If anyone of you lives even close to Houston and wouldn't mind schooling me on these pistols at the range...let me know and I'll drive to you. I would love to get some hands on knowledge from one of you guys that really know what you're talking about. That would be awesome.
Thanks again for all the help.
Nalajr
I didn't mean to cause an argument though. Looks like there are passionate owners on all sides. Nothing wrong with that at all.
One of you mentioned that I should get my friends to go to the range with some of these and let me try them....the problem is that I don't have any friends here in Houston. I haven't lived here long enough and the time I have lived here I have tried to make friends by asking for help to find places to hunt hogs with my bow. It hasn't worked well at all. I've never really seen anything like it. Those that hunt here will NOT help you out at all. When you tell them you are new and would like to hunt but are having trouble finding a place...they just don't care. I haven't had a single person in 3 years offer to even give me advice on hog hunting. That's a whole other story though...if you really want to know how it is coming to this part of Texas and trying to find help hunting....PM me and I'll tell you.
Anyway, one mentioned the desire to not carry a boat anchor when bowhunting and that might influence my decision to pick a lighter weapon. I would like to hear more about this. If I can get close to the same efficiency with lighter weight, I'll take the lighter weight pistol. Then again that also means more felt recoil. I also like the thought of being able to go with 45ACP rounds with a spare cylinder too.
I think I would probably get a reloader before I buy a pistol like this. I have been wanting one for a while anyway.
If anyone of you lives even close to Houston and wouldn't mind schooling me on these pistols at the range...let me know and I'll drive to you. I would love to get some hands on knowledge from one of you guys that really know what you're talking about. That would be awesome.
Thanks again for all the help.
Nalajr
mikewriter
Blackhawk
I have and use both .44 mag and .45 Colt. The .44 mag must be my favorite, as I have several firearms chambered for it. I hunt hogs in Texas, and with either cartridge I load 300gr + hard cast bullets to around 1000 fps. Kills hogs very dead at ranges up to 75 yards, does not recoil excessively. I started this "program" after loading sub sonic rounds for my suppressed .44 Contender. Twice, using 335gr hard cast at around 1000 fps I have shot completely through two hogs, killing them very dead, very fast - and still not found the bullet. I also shot a large sow with a 300gr Barnes "Buster" all copper bullet at about 55 yards and dropped her instantly with one shoulder shot. Again, did not find the bullet, complete pass-through, punched both shoulders. With the same weight bullet at the same speed there is virtually no difference in killing power of the two rounds.
maxpress
Buckeye
Medicdave, I have made a few of these in that pattern but use wood grips, mainly cocobolo. Looks like i have another project.
Jim Puke
Hunter
wizofwas said:
I really have to laugh at the reality of what has happened during the tenure of these 2 cartridges (44mag has dominated the market...by any measure applied to the comparison) repeatedly being explained away by things other than PERFORMANCE. If the colt were obviously so superior, the sales figures for revolvers chambered in both cartridges would not be dominated by the 44mag, to the extent that it is...45colt is a DISTANT, 2nd place finisher.
The reality is that this PERFORMANCE advantage allegedly enjoyed by the 45colt, does not exist. I know that this is a bitter pill for colt fans to swallow...but, so it goes.
wizofwas
Buckeye
Jim Luke, obviously I can't explain myself very well, so I'll try again a different way. Yes, you are absolutely right, the 44mag is a much better round than the 45colt. But we're comparing apples to oranges. The 45colt was never meant to have the power of a 44mag and everybody knows that. The 45colt is more on the par of a 38spl. So who in their right mind wouldn't rather have a 357mag or a 44mag. Both are much better rounds than the 45colt. And to make things worse, even the thought of a magnum brings visions a very powerful round. And another great thing about the 44mag is that you can buy 44mag ammo at any place where they sell ammo. If you're lucky, you might get some 45colt cowboy rounds at an ammo store and you surely will not be able to buy any Ruger only rounds. Advantage, magnum, any day of the week. No wonder the 44mag enjoys such popularity over the 45colt. Now, lets talk about the Ruger Blackhawk, TC/Contender and a few other hand made revolvers that can handle the "Ruger Only" loads and compare apples to apples. There are a few places where you can get Ruger only loads on line but they're not cheap. But they are the equivalent or better performance than the 44mag. And if you roll your own, you can tailor them to your own needs and weapon. They are both going to blow big holes through anything they hit. Is the 45colt far better than the 44mag? Comparing apples to apples, no. At best it is only marginally better than the 44mag with the same grain and type of bullet being pushed at the same speed. I'm not saying anything bad about the 44mag, just defending the 45colt in a bigger revolver like the Blackhawk that can handle the Ruger only loads. I hope that I've made myself clearer.
Next time you are headed to SW Florida, send me a PM. My wife has a 44 and I have a 45 that you can try yourself. The big difference between the 2 is obvious, hers is Stainless and mine is Blued. She likes the 44 because "Oh my Gosh, a women shoots a 44", I like the 45 because "I'm a cowboy at heart". They both aim true and make big holes.Nalapombu said:
Don't worry about finding a place to hunt. It will take years for people to warm up to a "new guy in town". You may have to pay for a couple of hunts first, or ask around about who is fair in pricing on a hunt, next thing you know you could be a local.
.45 Colt has the advantage of larger, heavier bullets, approx. 11% greater case capacity, and achieves a performance advantage at approx. 80% of the pressure of the .44 Mag. Not bashing the .44. I believe the .480 Ruger has a performance advantage over the .45 or the .44. I agree with an earlier post on this subject "no replacement for displacement"CraigC said:
To the OP.....
If size, weight, and general "handiness" is a consideration, 45LC guns are available with the same mid-sized (AKA Colt size) frame as the .44 Spl guns.
Ruger makes 'em, Colt still makes 'em, as does Cimarron and Uberti. They are all good guns and the last time I looked, all but the Colt can be had with an auxilary .45ACP cylinder.
You should note that none of the above are suitable for "Ruger Only" loads...but...one doesn't need to hot rod the .45LC beyound SAAMI-specs for hogs anyway, which kinda makes the whole "which caliber can be loaded hotter" argument pointless to your stated purpose.
Hope this helped.
DGW
If size, weight, and general "handiness" is a consideration, 45LC guns are available with the same mid-sized (AKA Colt size) frame as the .44 Spl guns.
Ruger makes 'em, Colt still makes 'em, as does Cimarron and Uberti. They are all good guns and the last time I looked, all but the Colt can be had with an auxilary .45ACP cylinder.
You should note that none of the above are suitable for "Ruger Only" loads...but...one doesn't need to hot rod the .45LC beyound SAAMI-specs for hogs anyway, which kinda makes the whole "which caliber can be loaded hotter" argument pointless to your stated purpose.
Hope this helped.
DGW
BIgMuddy
Blackhawk
Ok...if you are going to get reloading equipment first then I am back to suggesting a 45 Colt BH with the a.c.p. cylinder.
Don't think there is a nickel's worth of difference on performance level for your intended purpose between any of the three cartridges in question. Yes one can go faster and one is a little bigger, but it won't matter to a hog or a deer. Really it won't.
Yes you can load the Ruger 45 to be a real blaster, and I have done it as most anyone that owns one has as well. I have also come to realize it is not necessary to do so. You don't have to load everything to its highest velocity to make it effective. The lighter weight 45 can be brutal when loaded to its maximum potential. The mentioned 1000 fps loads will do ALL you ever need for anything in Texas and are much more pleasant to shoot. My RCBS 270 SAA's @ 950 fps will handle any handgun chore I need to tackle.
For weight comparison:
45 Colt BH. 36 oz.
44 Special. 42 oz.
44 Mag. 44 oz.
357 mag OMFT 38 oz.
Colt SAA 45. 36 oz.
That 45 Blackhawk with your reloaded ammo will get the job done. As for a place to hunt, I have a good friend that has lived in TX since birth and he has to pay to get on leased property to hunt. Many leases have long waiting lists. Not much private property with "open doors" for hunting. There are several reasonably priced pay hog hunt opportunities however. Just Google hog hunting in Texas.
Don't worry about starting an argument. Anytime you ask for an opinion on a forum those with the "right" opinion will always argue with those that are "wrong". :wink:
Dan
Don't think there is a nickel's worth of difference on performance level for your intended purpose between any of the three cartridges in question. Yes one can go faster and one is a little bigger, but it won't matter to a hog or a deer. Really it won't.
Yes you can load the Ruger 45 to be a real blaster, and I have done it as most anyone that owns one has as well. I have also come to realize it is not necessary to do so. You don't have to load everything to its highest velocity to make it effective. The lighter weight 45 can be brutal when loaded to its maximum potential. The mentioned 1000 fps loads will do ALL you ever need for anything in Texas and are much more pleasant to shoot. My RCBS 270 SAA's @ 950 fps will handle any handgun chore I need to tackle.
For weight comparison:
45 Colt BH. 36 oz.
44 Special. 42 oz.
44 Mag. 44 oz.
357 mag OMFT 38 oz.
Colt SAA 45. 36 oz.
That 45 Blackhawk with your reloaded ammo will get the job done. As for a place to hunt, I have a good friend that has lived in TX since birth and he has to pay to get on leased property to hunt. Many leases have long waiting lists. Not much private property with "open doors" for hunting. There are several reasonably priced pay hog hunt opportunities however. Just Google hog hunting in Texas.
Don't worry about starting an argument. Anytime you ask for an opinion on a forum those with the "right" opinion will always argue with those that are "wrong". :wink:
Dan
CraigC
Hawkeye
Regurgitating the Linebaugh article isn't going to tell me anything I don't already know. We must assess them by current information, not a 30yr old, biased article.glw3151 said:
It is pure fallacy that the .45 is uses heavier bullets. Both top out at the 355gr .44 vs 360gr .45 and the .44 is usually faster.
The .45Colt is slightly larger in diameter, however, one must look to the meplat diameter, not the bullet diameter. For a .44cal WFN has a larger meplat than a .45cal LFN. So the "the .45 is bigger" statement is not true 100% of the time.
If I hear "less pressure" one more time, I may puke. I'm sorry but this is a bogus point. A given bullet weight at a given velocity is going to recoil similarly, regardless of whether it's a .44 or .45. I've used these cartridges extensively in a near matched pair of Ruger Bisleys and there's not a bit of difference in recoil between them with comparable loads.
And for the record, I love all these cartridges and don't understand those that have to choose one or the other. I've got six .45Colt's and five .45ACP's to go with my seven .44mag's, four .44Spl's and two .44Colt's but I try to be realistic about them, along with everything else. A lot of this rhetoric that gets spread around about the .45Colt vs .44Mag debate is simply untrue.
Also for the record, I think the Blackhawk .45 convertible is one of the best deals in a new sixgun. It's lightweight, packable and has a lot of potential. I don't know why I don't have one.
mikewriter
Blackhawk
Since the .44 vs .45 question has been well addressed (if not "answered"), let me add my 2 bits about hunting in Texas. There is not a lot of public land in our state, and the hunting opportunities are limited on what there is. Most Wildlife Management Areas will have a few hog hunts per year, but they are organized. They won't just open the gates and turn hunters loose, don't allow bait, no dogs, no night hunting. Private land owners often look at hunting as another revenue source, which is their right and privilege. There are opportunities for "free" hog hunting on private land, but there are also a lot of folks looking for such opportunities. Also, sometimes letting strangers have access to your property creates a lot more problems for the landowner than a bunch of hogs will. When I started hunting again several years ago, I had a brother and a friend who were deer lease members, and I got a few invitations to hunt from them. My ultimate solution was to buy a small piece of property that provides hog hunting opportunities, and some deer hunting. Because it is small, I can't really invite others to hunt with me - just barely enough room for my wife and myself - but it has worked out well for me. I no longer belong to a range, but there are a lot of them in the general Houston area. I am still looking for a larger hunting lease, though.
CraigC said:
Yes, and a .45 WFN (true LBT) is bigger than a .44 WFN. In order to have a fair comparison, one must compare apples to apples.
I simply find it inconsistent that everyone is ready to acknowledge that the various .475s are a significant step up from the .45s, yet the .45 is somehow not significantly bigger than a .429 when the size differential in these two cases is nearly identical. Inconsistency runs rampant........
