Lee Martin
Hunter
OM stands for "Old Model" (pre-1973, non-transfer bar Blackhawks).
44 Special Project
- Thread starter Lee Martin
- Start date
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Quattroclick
Single-Sixer
This thread and Lee's magnificent gun helped get me re-energized on my 44 special conversion! Lee, thanks for the motivation! About a week ago I pulled the box of parts out and got back to work. I should have the gun shootable in another week or so.
I started this prior to the NM 44 flat tops coming on the market. Today, I probably would just buy a NM 44 special even though I really like the OM guns better.
Yosemite Sam
Hunter
messerist":399a31pf said:
Further, the "conversion" aspect means that he took a .357 magnum and converted it to a .44 Special. By himself, in his shop. Quite an accomplishment!Lee Martin":399a31pf said:
Welcome to the forum!
-- Sam
Greebe
Single-Sixer
Greebe":hnh4cvjh said:
Did I miss the answer?
Hondo44
Hawkeye
I am moving forward on an OM Flat top .357 I've been thinking about converting to 44 Spl for years. Its collectibility is long gone due to wear. Actually I think it will be part of a double project. I have a blue new model 44 flat top with 4 5/8" barrel. The barrel, cylinder and XR3 steel grip frame (minus the lock) are going on the old 3 screw flattop. It already has a steel ejector housing so I'll have an all steel 1958 vintage FT for recoil dampening and looks.
The new model FT will get a USFA 45 colt cylinder and Ruger 45 barrel in 4 5/8" I've had kicking around. It already has a Vaquero Montado XR3 stainless grip frame with factory front grip strap serrations (minus the lock) and diamond checkered Montado wide target hammer. But I may change to an original Vaquero Stainless XR-3RED grip frame for the 45 recoil.
The new model FT will get a USFA 45 colt cylinder and Ruger 45 barrel in 4 5/8" I've had kicking around. It already has a Vaquero Montado XR3 stainless grip frame with factory front grip strap serrations (minus the lock) and diamond checkered Montado wide target hammer. But I may change to an original Vaquero Stainless XR-3RED grip frame for the 45 recoil.
Yosemite Sam
Hunter
Sounds like fun!
-- Sam
-- Sam
Steve Myers
Single-Sixer
Lee Martin":2acvsxmz said:
Lee - I also sent you an email about this same subject. What do you charge to provide one of your custom Ruger cylinders in .44 Special chambering for an OM Vaquero?
I am thinking this would make an OM Vaq a whole new gun! Thanx
Steve
RevolverFanatic
Bearcat
I am truly in awe of your machinist skills. But I have to ask this question...WHY would you choose to do this project to reduce a SUPERIOR cartridge to a decidedly nominal cartridge such as the .44 SPL. round??!!
No person has asked this question....so, I will.
IMHO, if you go to all the work necessary to do this.....as evidenced by your skill and man-hours involved (not to mention the 3-phase electrical bill for the machines) WHY in the heck would you choose a sub-par caliber??!!
I really don't get it. Even .45LC would be more in line of an improvement.
WHY choose a nominal caliber for all this expense???
The .44 SPL. unless loaded to close-magnum pressures, is a waste of time. For either self defense or, hunting.
No person has asked this question....so, I will.
IMHO, if you go to all the work necessary to do this.....as evidenced by your skill and man-hours involved (not to mention the 3-phase electrical bill for the machines) WHY in the heck would you choose a sub-par caliber??!!
I really don't get it. Even .45LC would be more in line of an improvement.
WHY choose a nominal caliber for all this expense???
The .44 SPL. unless loaded to close-magnum pressures, is a waste of time. For either self defense or, hunting.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
RevolverFanatic":3aqvx0cj said:
Hi Revolver Fanatic:
I quess this is one of those cases where; "If you have to ask the question, you won't understand the answer."
But let me try because there are many answers, some logical, most subjective:
1. Many will argue ballistics and performance of the 44 Spl with you but I don't care about that. I shoot a S&W 500 when I want to win ballistic performance contests.
2. There are so many cartridges that will do the job, whatever the job is.
3. I could say I like a "sub-par" cartridge because they are more fun to shoot at my sub-par age. I usually load 44 Spl sub-par anyway and also shoot 44 Russian and 44 Colt in my 44's.
4. The 44 Spl is a disease. If you don't catch the disease, good for you and your wallet.
5. I like to convert guns to different cartridges. Every pleasure has its expense.
6. It's kind of been an under dog and you know how that goes.
7. It's accuracy potential is lengendary.
8. Because many of us own guns for all the other cartridges already.
9. and maybe most of all, Ruger never made a gun specifically for it and in the medium frame size. If they don't make it, than I will! Like my 3 screw med frame flat top .45 and a 3 screw flat top 44 Spl.
I can probably come up with more.
RevolverFanatic
Bearcat
Hondo- I guess you are right. I don't understand the answer. :wink:
I didn't mean to be rude or disrespectful. I hope that I am not taken that way.
When I say that a gun chambered for a .44spl. is a waste of time, I mean that in the context of; why not just have a .44 magnum?
Then, if you like to shoot specials for target/plinking, you have the best of both worlds. 8)
Same thing with a 38/357. I would never buy a .38spl. revolver for the same reasons.
I didn't mean to be rude or disrespectful. I hope that I am not taken that way.
When I say that a gun chambered for a .44spl. is a waste of time, I mean that in the context of; why not just have a .44 magnum?
Then, if you like to shoot specials for target/plinking, you have the best of both worlds. 8)
Same thing with a 38/357. I would never buy a .38spl. revolver for the same reasons.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Hi,
No I didn't take you as rude at all. It's a perfectly legitimate question and in fact routinely asked. The 44 Mag shooting 44 Spl is also a routine thought; it certainly represents Ruger's thinking for the last 50 years. They had plans to build a 44 Spl Blackhawk following their 357 in the mid '50's. The 44 Mag put the kabosh to that plan.
Now with the popularity of the Lipsey limited editions in 44 Spl they have made it a standard production item! The reason for its acceptance is what we've been telling Ruger for the last 50 years. A big heavy Super Blackhawk and any other 44 Mag will certainly shoot 44 Spls, but having something to shoot the cartridge is not the issue. Having a trim, lighter, handier, easier to carry 44 Spl gun when one just wants to shoot and plink with it for the pure pleasure and not hunt or fight, is the issue. I don't even shoot my 44 Mags anymore. My S&W 500 Mag is a better bear back up or hunting gun and my S&W Mod 296 DA only Titanium in 44 Spl. is a better fighting/carry gun.
And besides, 44 Spl is an historical cartrige. It's like my Winch '92 carbine in 25-20. There's a lot more potent, accurate, efficient .25 caliber cartridges that will do a better job. But just for fun they don't have the panache of a sweet '92 SRC in 25-20 WCF to some like me.
Besides being a sporting and utilitarian tool, guns to many are also an artform. Liking a gun and cartridge combination can have far less to do with logic than just pure personal opinion and beauty in the eye of the beholder. Even though many times our preferences can be justified with logic and ballistics, it all boils down to subjectivity and we all dance to a different drummer. I don't like Lugers but a lot do. I think that's great. At least they are gun people!
That's probably more than you ever wanted to hear about the 44 Spl, but that's my story. Hope it helped.
No I didn't take you as rude at all. It's a perfectly legitimate question and in fact routinely asked. The 44 Mag shooting 44 Spl is also a routine thought; it certainly represents Ruger's thinking for the last 50 years. They had plans to build a 44 Spl Blackhawk following their 357 in the mid '50's. The 44 Mag put the kabosh to that plan.
Now with the popularity of the Lipsey limited editions in 44 Spl they have made it a standard production item! The reason for its acceptance is what we've been telling Ruger for the last 50 years. A big heavy Super Blackhawk and any other 44 Mag will certainly shoot 44 Spls, but having something to shoot the cartridge is not the issue. Having a trim, lighter, handier, easier to carry 44 Spl gun when one just wants to shoot and plink with it for the pure pleasure and not hunt or fight, is the issue. I don't even shoot my 44 Mags anymore. My S&W 500 Mag is a better bear back up or hunting gun and my S&W Mod 296 DA only Titanium in 44 Spl. is a better fighting/carry gun.
And besides, 44 Spl is an historical cartrige. It's like my Winch '92 carbine in 25-20. There's a lot more potent, accurate, efficient .25 caliber cartridges that will do a better job. But just for fun they don't have the panache of a sweet '92 SRC in 25-20 WCF to some like me.
Besides being a sporting and utilitarian tool, guns to many are also an artform. Liking a gun and cartridge combination can have far less to do with logic than just pure personal opinion and beauty in the eye of the beholder. Even though many times our preferences can be justified with logic and ballistics, it all boils down to subjectivity and we all dance to a different drummer. I don't like Lugers but a lot do. I think that's great. At least they are gun people!
That's probably more than you ever wanted to hear about the 44 Spl, but that's my story. Hope it helped.
Lee Martin
Hunter
RevolverFanatic":1n3xd0fx said:
Because I like 44 Special and I wanted to....
As for performance, you need to read-up on handgun cartridges. When handloaded, the 44 Special outpaces the 357 Magnum (in terms of caliber, bullet weight, muzzle energy, TKO, etc, etc).
Quattroclick
Single-Sixer
RevolverFanatic":2xdsi5aa said:
It is a near duplicate ballistics wise of another complete waste of time, useless for personal protection cartridge, the 45ACP, which as we all know is obsolete, having been superseded by the superior 9mm.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
People using 9MMs are killed or injured by perps that they have killed (but who are still pulling their triggers and just haven't fallen down yet!) It doesn't happen with 45 ACP. But hey all those special forces that shun the Berreta 92 9MMs in favor of the ACP instead must have it all wrong... :wink:
"It is a near duplicate ballistics wise of another complete waste of time, useless for personal protection cartridge, the 45ACP, which as we all know is obsolete, having been superseded by the superior 9mm."
Well, I guess that settles that.
:roll:
Well, I guess that settles that.
:roll:
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Ha, ha, ha....thanks for the laugh :lol: Well, you might find this very UN-settling because we're now moving from opinions to facts!Ale-8(1) said:
NOTE: If you want to continue this futile attempt :roll: , you should start a new thread because you've diverted substantially from a .44 revolver conversion.
"The .45 ACP is not a very powerful cartridge."
"One might logically ask "so why choose a .45 if a good 9mm produces equal wounds?" The simple answer is that, while the best (or worst depending on your point of view) 9mm wounds are about equal to the least effective .45s..."
"... comparing the best medium bores to the least spectacular larger bores. If you compare bullets of similar technology the larger bore shows proportional performance. A .45 230 gr. Ball round destroys about 1.7 times as much tissue as a 9mm ball round. A 230 gr. .45 jhp destroys about 1.7 time as much tissue as a 9mm 124 jhp that expands. The thing is, due to its mass the 230 grain .45 gives more consistent penetration."
"While I have come across some lethal encounters that took a lot of rounds to settle they mostly were the result of either poor hits (or complete misses) or lack of penetration. Nearly all of the high round count cases I have reviewed involved 9mms, .38s, .357's or smaller calibers. This is not to say they do not occur with major caliber rounds. It is to say I have been collecting data for 30 years and have not encountered many cases in which multiple hits (more than three, as two or three shots are a fairly normal reflex action) from major caliber cartridges to the center of the chest have not been sufficient, ... and have not encountered any with the .45, even with Ball. I have encountered several with 5, 6 or even more hits to the center of the chest with .38, .357, 9mm and .223 rifle rounds failing to stop. Almost every one could be traced to lack of penetration with a couple of exceptions ..."
"Perhaps the best advice I have heard on this matter is "shoot the biggest caliber you can handle".... because .... a .45 is not big enough!"
Click here for the complete education: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/jh_45acp.htm
Whatever floats yer boat, big boy.
Nice thread hijack.
:roll:
Nice thread hijack.
:roll:
Yosemite Sam
Hunter
Some people apparently cannot comprehend sarcasm.
Please do not divert this topic further. If you want to argue about ballistics do it elsewhere. This topic is for discussion of Lee's project only.
Thank you.
-- Sam, with mod hat on
Please do not divert this topic further. If you want to argue about ballistics do it elsewhere. This topic is for discussion of Lee's project only.
Thank you.
-- Sam, with mod hat on
Quattroclick
Single-Sixer
To all, particularly Lee, sorry if my jest steered things astray.
The target pictured on page 10 has not been commented on, at least not enough. A 2" group (looks like less to me) at 50 yards is dang good for an open sight revolver! Form and function!
In no small part, because of Lee, my pile of OM 357 parts on page 11 is now a 44 special revolver! I love it. There is no doubt in my mind why so many people put money in to this conversion. It is awesome! If I hadn't seen this thread, it would still be a pile of parts. My approach was as low buck as possible, but I definitely learned some things from Lee that got me closer to the finish line! Thanks!
The target pictured on page 10 has not been commented on, at least not enough. A 2" group (looks like less to me) at 50 yards is dang good for an open sight revolver! Form and function!
In no small part, because of Lee, my pile of OM 357 parts on page 11 is now a 44 special revolver! I love it. There is no doubt in my mind why so many people put money in to this conversion. It is awesome! If I hadn't seen this thread, it would still be a pile of parts. My approach was as low buck as possible, but I definitely learned some things from Lee that got me closer to the finish line! Thanks!
