44 mag load data question

[Peacemaker4]

I have a new model Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44mag. I would like to load some Cast Performance 300 grain hard cast flat nosed bullets with H-110 powder. Does anyone have a tried and true load data that is max or near max for this bullet?

 

[Enigma]

Lyman lists 18.5 grains for a 1036 FPS velocity as max. Hodgdon doesn't list data for a 300 grain cast bullet, but they list 19.0 grains for 1325 FPS with a 300 grain Hornady XTP bullet. That's quite a velocity difference for only 1/2 grain of powder though, especially with a jacketed bullet. Lyman lists the Sierra 300 grain JSP over 20.5 grains of H110 for 982 fps, which sounds a bit more likely to me. The XTPs have a relatively thin, soft jacket, which probably accounts for some of the variation, but still...

 

[Hvymax]

Pushing supersonic speeds with plain cast bullets is usually a bad idea. Also you'll probably get less accuracy. When you exceed the riflings ability to stabilize the bullet you get crap accuracy. Work up loads grouping as you go and you'll find the gun's happy place. You are starting from the wrong end of the spectrum. Always work up and stop when anything doesn't seem right. What's safe in one gun will take other guns apart easily.

 

[contender]

As Hvymax has mentioned,, pushing plain cast bullets too fast can give you other issues & isn't usually recommended. First,, there's the alloy,, which may or may not be good at whatever velocity you try. Never use the same charges for cast & jacketed.

As noted,, ALWAYS work up a load,,!!!!!!!!!! Your comment;
"Does anyone have a tried and true load data that is max or near max for this bullet?"
suggests you don't plan on working up a load for accuracy or proper safety.

I would contact "Cast Performance" and ask them what they suggest as a starting load, and a max load.

H110 is not a powder that likes to be downloaded much. And most of us who've been loading & shooting cast for decades usually don't use H110 much. In short,, not the best powder to work with and that may be why you can't find much data.

Reloading manuals are published by companies that have tried & tested the various combinations of bullets & powders etc and give you safe data. If it's not in published manuals,, I don't suggest trying it.

Please understand we are trying to help, and not disparaging your idea. We want everyone who handloads to be safe.

Lastly,, max or near max loads, in MY opinion,, aren't often the most accurate. By working up a load,, you can find the sweet spot of accuracy,, and in MY experiences,, it's usually been in the middle area of most load recommendations. After over 40 years of handloading,, and according to my records,, over 200,000 rounds loaded,, I've discovered (2) things.
(1) You can never be too safe, and (2) you can always learn something new.

 

[Peacemaker4]

Pushing supersonic speeds with plain cast bullets is usually a bad idea. Also you'll probably get less accuracy. When you exceed the riflings ability to stabilize the bullet you get crap accuracy. Work up loads grouping as you go and you'll find the gun's happy place. You are starting from the wrong end of the spectrum. Always work up and stop when anything doesn't seem right. What's safe in one gun will take other guns apart easily.

I agree. That's why I asked for tried and true data that some experienced handloader had already worked up.

 

[Paul B]

A couple of things here, one I used W296 which it H110. I've never messed with 300 gr. bullets much because I'd have to alter one of my .44 mags to make it hit point of aim. I have more than a few Rugers in .44 mag. and one S&W629 Most are Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks and a couple of Redhawks. Using W296/H110 those guns shoot from 6" to 8" high at 25 yards. I know the the front sights for the Redhawks can be changed to a taller sight but consider the guns to be too heavy for my desert and mountain hikes. The Winchester reloading booklet #15 s calls 25.0 gr. W296/H110 to be a max load and suggests that one use the load with no changes up or down. I used 24.0 gr. as accuracy was better with my home cast 250 gr. bullets. I do have the RCBS mold for the 300 gr. semiwadcutter but as I mentioned, 6 to 8" high at 25 yards ain't gonna cut it facing an angry Black Bear or Mountain Lion. I don't see much lion sign and only saw one twice in my years a s a desert rat but I have seen more than a half dozen bears, not only on the mountain but out in the desert. They were probably going from one mountain range to another.
Paul B.

 

[Hvymax]

The issue you will run into with heavy bullets and factory barrels is the twist rate. The problem you will run into with cast bullets is their ability to engage the rifling effectively at high velocities. What do you have against jacketed bullets??? I've gotten 3/4" at 200 yds with 300gr jacketed bullets going 1,650fps. My 330gr moly coated casts are good for 2" at 200yds at 1,350ish but I'm running custom barrel tubes with rifling cuts and twist rates tailored to the application and loads worked up specifically for those custom barrels. Putting a S&W in with those Rugers is a dangerous thing. A Super Redhawk or a Dan Wesson will eat loads that will take lesser guns apart. The OP's Cast bullets should perform nicely up to 1,100fps or so. Much more and your just wasting powder.

 

[Peacemaker4]

Great advice. Thank you all for your help.

 

[noahmercy]

Cast Performance bullets are a great shape, but too hard in my experience. I cast my bullets a bit softer and size them a little bit larger than most commercial ones and get great accuracy and no leading from a Super Redhawk with big charges of W296/H110. Since I have driven them all the way through the shoulders and gristle plate of a 475 pound Piney Woods rooter, I am confident they perform adequately.

I had an early Super Blackhawk Hunter, and it had quite a bit of "choke" under the barrel threads. I didn't know about firelapping back in the early '90s so I just shot jacketed. 200 grain and 300 grain XTPs were amazingly accurate from it, and my go-to load for the Super Redhawk is still 20 grains of W296/H110 under the 300 grain XTP.

As to max loads; I have found W296/H110 performs best at 95-100% case capacity with cast bullets (never had great results with compressed loads of any propellent and lead bullets, unless it's black powder). Different designs seat to different depths, depending on where the crimp groove is located, which is why load data can vary pretty wildly even among same-weight bullets. When loading a bullet that is not specifically listed with those magnum powders, I always begin by determining how far they seat, hand fill a resized-and-primed case with W296/H110 to a level even with the bottom of a seated bullet, and then weigh the charge to determine the amount needed for 100% load density. (This changes with case volume, so the process should be repeated for brass with different headstamps.) I start at 95% and go from there. Since each firearm is an entity unto itself, the "sweet spot" may be 95%, 98%, 100%, or it may just not work with that bullet and powder combo.

 

[daveag.]

There are several hundred combined years of experience of reloading in this chat. There are many reasons why I do it. But, I never stop learning. Another thing I hardly read about, is dry fire practice. I became a much better shot with a handgun. And now, I practice on the smallest of targets. Like shooting clothes pins and clothes lines. Shooting ripe peppers at the stem. Stems are smaller than a #2 pencil.

 

[BuckRimfire]

I have a new model Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44mag. I would like to load some Cast Performance 300 grain hard cast flat nosed bullets with H-110 powder. Does anyone have a tried and true load data that is max or near max for this bullet?

Not what you want to hear, but IMR4227 is very well-regarded on Cast Boolits for use with plain-base lead bullets. It won't produce the screaming velocites of H110, but it's not exactly a bunny fart, and since it's a just a bit over the hump (too slow) in burn rate, I believe it is a bit more gentle in how the bullet gets smacked into the rifling. I've shot some Keith 429421 bullets with it in the .43 Mag Redhawk and 358429s from the .357 GP100 and had decent results. It leaves a lot of partially burned granules behind, but no harm done unless you let them get caught under the ejector star of a DA revolver, in which case closing and opening the crane can get sticky.

Lyman Cast Manual shows for 300 gr 429650 bullet at 1.700" COAL that 19.0 grains of 4227 is max. I think it said about 1000 fps out of a 4" barrel, so from a 7.5" tube you'd be around 1100, I suppose. Asking on Cast Boolits might find load recipes for the exact bullet you have. Max charges of 4227 are likely to be a bit compressed.

edit: If you care, 4227 is also low-flash. I prefer 2400 because I like the huge orange fireballs, but I ran out of it quite a while back and haven't seen any for sale in what seems like forever. At an indoor range, it usually gets a brief pause from the kids with their 9s and 40s when you uncork the first big boom and flash from a hot load of 2400. If you're hunting, maybe that light show would be less welcome.

 

[crstrode]

There is no max for a 44 magnum.

 

[Hvymax]

There is no max for a 44 magnum.

The limit is the gun you are shooting it with. My Dan Wesson and the Super Redhawk were designed to eat things that would take a S&W apart. I wouldn't put the 2,100fps 357sig loads for my Bond Arms into anything else. Mad Science!!!

 

[crow#2]

Lyman lists 18.5 grains for a 1036 FPS velocity as max. Hodgdon doesn't list data for a 300 grain cast bullet, but they list 19.0 grains for 1325 FPS with a 300 grain Hornady XTP bullet. That's quite a velocity difference for only 1/2 grain of powder though, especially with a jacketed bullet. Lyman lists the Sierra 300 grain JSP over 20.5 grains of H110 for 982 fps, which sounds a bit more likely to me. The XTPs have a relatively thin, soft jacket, which probably accounts for some of the variation, but still...

Enigma the velocity variation you mention is one of the reasons us novice reloaders have problems understanding things. Not because of you I'm just referring to the variation you mentioned. It gets pretty confusing to us flunkies.

 

[Enigma]

Enigma the velocity variation you mrntion is one of the reasons us novice reloaders have problems understanding things. Not because of you I'm just referring to the variation you mentioned. It gets pretty confusing to us flunkies.

Yeah, that's quite a disparity. Possibly much different length barrels, vented or not vented, and then again some barrels are just 'faster' than others.

 

[crow#2]

Thanks for your help

 

[Hvymax]

Enigma the velocity variation you mrntion is one of the reasons us novice reloaders have problems understanding things. Not because of you I'm just referring to the variation you mentioned. It gets pretty confusing to us flunkies.

That's why a Chronograph is so important when loading. You can tell before things go awry.

 

[crow#2]

That's my next investment.
Does a chrony have to be pricey to be a good one?
I wouldn't think so but never know

 

[308 Scout]

That's my next investment.
Does a chrony have to be pricey to be a good one?
I wouldn't think so but never know

I've had expensive ones that flaked out and cheap ones that lasted. I'm currently using a Competition Electronics ProChrono that I bought used for $65. I've had it for a couple of years and it stays set up in my shop so I can just grab it, set it outside my shop door and shoot. After each use I disconnect the battery and cover the sensors with a pillow case.
Good used ones pop up fairly often on GunBroker and on forums such as AR-15.com

 

[crow#2]

Thankyou sir