3 SCREW SUPER SINGLE 6 ALLEDGED TRANSFER BAR TRANSITION MOD

[Hondo44]

Original post:
5. Date of original gun sale: Owner is old and not really sure now, when pressed by me, when he bought the gun new But sure he did buy it new in a gunshop.

With a 5/85 date on the conversion paperwork, he would of had to buy the gun new at least 13 years after three screw guns were discontinued in 1972.

I'm slowly developing another theory: I wonder if the gun was old stock in the gunshop where he bought the gun, and was sent back by the shop owner for conversion who then sold it as new; keeping the old parts in the process.

If any of you have obtained info from Ruger, do they usually supply the ship date? What info does the letter usually contain?

Thx,
Jim

 

[Ale-8(1)]

The ladies will usually tell you the ship date and the "shipped configuration" (model number, like BKH36).

Same info is in the letters.

Usually, that's all.

 

[flatgate]

Here's one of Ruger's Letters. Note the "watermark".

flatgate

 

[chet15]

And the date on the OM instruction manual is???
If it shipped late as most are surmising, that other instruction manual would have that "this model out of production" stamp on it.
If it is a genuine OM instruction manual as would have been shipped with a gun cirica 1970, and since its got a 1985 dated conversion manual, this gun has been back to the factory for the conversion.
Remember that 1985 is also part of the long period in history when WBR went by his policy that no guns without a Warning rollmark would ever get out of the factory again.
I'm really thinking the recollections of the original owner are incorrect.
Chet15

 

[Hondo44]

Hi Chet15,

It was undated and not stamped "out of production".

 

[chet15]

OK...thanks.
I'm betting if somebody runs that serial number through there again and doesn't mention anything about transition or anything like that (chances are the girls won't know much about that stuff there anyway), it will come back as 1970 for a ship date.
Chad

 

[Hondo44]

I just called Ruger Records Dept. again at 603-865-2424. This time I was told the gun was made in Nov 1969 and was shipped in Nov 1969. (Remember the last time I called I was told gun was made in 1970 and she didn't know shipping date; aparently she was reading right off of the serial number chart.)
Then I sprung the "transition model " question. She said I'd have to talk to the service dept and transferred me. The guy in the service dept said that 3 screw guns were being converted as early as 1973 but he did not know if the factory converted any old stock guns before shipping out new. He said I'd have to talk to records about transition guns and transferred me back to records. So now I've made one complete circle.

When I asked records about transition models she said she'd heard of them but I'd have to talk to service. I said they transferred me to you. She said OK, I'll have to talk to my suprvr, I'll call you back. She also said whatever they figured out, they'd confirm in a letter and took my address.

So here I wait for a call back.

 

[Chance]

SN# 60-16830 shipped as a Super Single Six, SC6, Convertible in Nov 1969.

Don't think I was the first to call since the Nice Lady came back with the info much faster than normal.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Sounds like we're getting it nailed down.

Let's not push our luck with repeated calls to the ladies. It's a free service, and they are quite busy.

Fascinating.

 

[flatgate]

The guy in the service dept said that 3 screw guns were being converted as early as 1973...

Balderdash! It appears the gentleman in Ruger's Service Dept. is confused. Bill Ruger didn't invent the conversion kit until 1982.

R&H.G., p. 177, "Dropping the patented New Model components into existing "old models" was impossible...."



flatgate

 

[Hondo44]

The guy in the service dept said that 3 screw guns were being converted as early as 1973...

Balderdash! It appears the gentleman in Ruger's Service Dept. is confused. Bill Ruger didn't invent the conversion kit until 1982.

R&H.G., p. 177, "Dropping the patented New Model components into existing "old models" was impossible...."



flatgate

Precisely...that seems to be the level of competence we're dealing with here. Still haven't heard back from the records dept either!

 

[slowpoke]

I suppose if someone had the resources to really do some digging they might be able to find out who the gun was originaly shipped to. I.E. was it shipped to the shop that sold it to Hondo's friend? Someone's not being forthright here, either the Ruger folks, due to lack of current info on hand, the buyer, due to a "fuzzy" memory, or the seller due to CLAIMING that the gun was new (wouldn't be the first time that claim was made by a seller), The '85 manual IS hard evidence, and I'd tend to believe those that say there was no conversion kit in 69-70. Just my .02

 

[chet15]

I suppose if someone had the resources to really do some digging they might be able to find out who the gun was originaly shipped to. I.E. was it shipped to the shop that sold it to Hondo's friend? Someone's not being forthright here, either the Ruger folks, due to lack of current info on hand, the buyer, due to a "fuzzy" memory, or the seller due to CLAIMING that the gun was new (wouldn't be the first time that claim was made by a seller), The '85 manual IS hard evidence, and I'd tend to believe those that say there was no conversion kit in 69-70. Just my .02

Yes...the only problem is, it is a strict Ruger policy to not tell who a particular gun was shipped to. And anyway, the gun would have went to a distributor then a dealer, then to the recipient.

The one thing we all have to remember here is, the individuals employeed at Ruger are there to do their jobs...to make guns as fast as a high degree of quality and demand warrants. There's no way that anybody there (especially today) would have any idea about a particular gun out of 26 million guns made by folks for the most part without collector interest in the items they are making. Its not the ladies' fault. But I do wish sometimes that they would refrain from looking "in the collector books" or in their "established dates of manufacture" to give somebody information, or even bring up terms that they may or may not have an understanding about (I know the information they give is free, so I have no qualms here). But the actual factory records that are there are the "final" say in how a gun should look as it left the factory...(i.e. Catalog number, maybe Ruger model number, date of final inspect and shipping date...they know who the guns were shipped to also, but won't give out that info). This is the only information in those records....there just isn't enough room in the old day book records to say much more, even if the employee would have had the forthought at the time to write something about it...but he wouldn't have because that's not their job. And WBR would have had none of that!
Chet15

 

[Ale-8(1)]

JMHO . . .

The presence of the '85 manual doesn't really prove anything about this gun. It could have been acquired any time after 1985.

The fact that the "update kits" didn't arrive until 1982 is the biggest single factor of importance here.

The rest is . . . well . . . hearsay. Sorry. I'm betting on the 1969 ship date, as a conventional Old Model.

JMHO

 

[slowpoke]

Yes, I thought about the gun going to a distributor after I'd posted, and true the '85 manual could've been thrown in anytime. For that matter, the dealer could have....Oh shoot, never mind, the posibilities are endless.

What we really need here is to have Hondo44 get his hands on that gun, disassemble it and take lots of pictures for the experts here to evaluate. The absence of an "R" doesn't really prove anything either as I understand some conversions were done without the gun recieving a stamp? I'm new to Ruger collecting, and certainly no expert, but it is, as has already been stated very interesting.

 

[Hondo44]

Well, I'm writing this one off to an urban myth. I'll put it on the back burner unless something else turns up from the"experts and book writers". Ruger lady never called back. I'll report what the letter says if and when I get it. Thank you all for your input. It seems to have been an excercise in futility but if any of us hear of a so called 'transition model' again, we'll have heard the claim before at least.

Thanks!

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Chet15 uses the term "transition model" in the RENE all the time to refer to those guns shipped just as various new components or combinations of components are shipped. And there are various evolutionaty changes within a model that are referred to as "transition models". A classic case in point is all the evolutionary steps in the Single-Sixes and Flattops.

 

[Hondo44]

That's true. All guns have them. I'll refer to this issue as "alledged transfer bar transition model". Thanks Ale-8(1)!

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Otherwise known as the "ATBTM variation" henceforth.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[flatgate]

I still strongly believe this is the "I forgot what happened and when it happened"...



flatgate