What's the difference between the Ruger No.1 vs. Ruger No. 3? Is one better then the other? I do know don't make the No. 3 anymore and the No. 1 has more caliber options but mechanically what's the difference? Is one more accurate then the other? THANKS
Ruger No. 1 vs. No. 3
- Thread starter bigtheno
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The Ruger No. 3 was a less expensive version of the No. 1. Cost reduction features included no checkering, less-highly-figured wood, a metal (later plastic) buttplate (ala the basic 10/22), a simpler actuating lever, less-highly polished metal and bluing (although that is debatable), and iron sights with no ramp or rings provided with the rifle (rings are provided with the No. 1). The basic action (except for the operating lever style) is essentially the same.
The No. 3 was introduced around 1973 and discontinued sometime in the 1980s. It was initially available in "classic" cartridges (including .45-70, .22 Hornet, and .30-40 Krag). Later chamberings included .375 Winchester (relatively rare), .223 Remington, and .44 Mag (also relatively rare, thought to be more rare than the .375 Winchester, and the subject of some discussion on this board). There are one or two oddballs out there...a variant of the No. 3 was chambered in .30 Carbine as a short barreled action contained inside a simulated Viper launcher designed to be used as a military trainer (the Viper project was killed and with it, the .30 Carbine No. 3 simulator - I worked on the Viper at General Dynamics 35 years ago on this project and I handled these simulators). I've heard that one .30 06 No. 3 was built as a prototype but never entered production, but that's hearsay. Other than the different chamberings, Ruger No. 3 rifles were only built as one model.
A Ruger No. 3 in .45-70.
Ruger No. 1 rifles have been built as heavy barreled varmint rifles (the 1V configuration), Alex Henry fore end models (the 1A, 1S, and 1H models), RSI models (with full length Mannlicher-style stocks), and "standard" models (lighter barrels and beavertail fore ends, usually designated as 1B models). There are several variations on the above, including many distributor specials. As far as calibers go, it might be easier to list the cartridges that have not been chambered for the Ruger No. 1.
A Ruger No. 1A in .30 06, purchased in 1976. Finding No. 1 Rugers with wood like this was not unusual in the mid-1970s.
Back in the day when I started collecting (in 1976), MSRP for a new No. 3 was $165, and you could buy them all day long for about $138. A new No. 1 in any configuration carried an MSRP of $265, and you could buy them all day long for about $235. (Those, indeed, were the good old days.) Today, used No. 3 Rugers go for around $650 and go up from there (there will be some folks who will post here that they can be had for "a lot" less; where this occurs, please point me toward the sellers). Used No. 1 Rugers start for just a bit more, usually around $700 to $750, assuming the rifle has the usual handling nicks and dings and it is not rare. MSRP for a new Ruger No. 1 is $1299, but the only retailers who sell them at that price are retailers who aren't selling anything. They can be had brand new for $900 to maybe $1050 or so. The Ruger No. 1 has many collectible variants, with some of the more rare configurations selling north of $1500 (sometimes well north of that number).
As far as accuracy goes, the No. 1 is perhaps more inherently accurate than the No. 3 because of the No. 3 rifle's barrel band. That's the theory. On open sighted rifles shooting the .45-70, I can't detect a difference. My No. 3 .22 Hornet is of modest accuracy (around 1.5 inches at 100 yards with 296 powder), but I don't buy these for accuracy. If accuracy was my criteria, I would buy a Savage bolt action. Either the No. 1 or the No. 3 will deliver acceptable accuracy for hunting (in my opinion; others will probably disagree).
In my opinion, the single shot Ruger rifles are the most elegant rifles ever offered as a normal production item. I think there are others here on this board that would agree with me.
The No. 3 was introduced around 1973 and discontinued sometime in the 1980s. It was initially available in "classic" cartridges (including .45-70, .22 Hornet, and .30-40 Krag). Later chamberings included .375 Winchester (relatively rare), .223 Remington, and .44 Mag (also relatively rare, thought to be more rare than the .375 Winchester, and the subject of some discussion on this board). There are one or two oddballs out there...a variant of the No. 3 was chambered in .30 Carbine as a short barreled action contained inside a simulated Viper launcher designed to be used as a military trainer (the Viper project was killed and with it, the .30 Carbine No. 3 simulator - I worked on the Viper at General Dynamics 35 years ago on this project and I handled these simulators). I've heard that one .30 06 No. 3 was built as a prototype but never entered production, but that's hearsay. Other than the different chamberings, Ruger No. 3 rifles were only built as one model.
A Ruger No. 3 in .45-70.
Ruger No. 1 rifles have been built as heavy barreled varmint rifles (the 1V configuration), Alex Henry fore end models (the 1A, 1S, and 1H models), RSI models (with full length Mannlicher-style stocks), and "standard" models (lighter barrels and beavertail fore ends, usually designated as 1B models). There are several variations on the above, including many distributor specials. As far as calibers go, it might be easier to list the cartridges that have not been chambered for the Ruger No. 1.
A Ruger No. 1A in .30 06, purchased in 1976. Finding No. 1 Rugers with wood like this was not unusual in the mid-1970s.
Back in the day when I started collecting (in 1976), MSRP for a new No. 3 was $165, and you could buy them all day long for about $138. A new No. 1 in any configuration carried an MSRP of $265, and you could buy them all day long for about $235. (Those, indeed, were the good old days.) Today, used No. 3 Rugers go for around $650 and go up from there (there will be some folks who will post here that they can be had for "a lot" less; where this occurs, please point me toward the sellers). Used No. 1 Rugers start for just a bit more, usually around $700 to $750, assuming the rifle has the usual handling nicks and dings and it is not rare. MSRP for a new Ruger No. 1 is $1299, but the only retailers who sell them at that price are retailers who aren't selling anything. They can be had brand new for $900 to maybe $1050 or so. The Ruger No. 1 has many collectible variants, with some of the more rare configurations selling north of $1500 (sometimes well north of that number).
As far as accuracy goes, the No. 1 is perhaps more inherently accurate than the No. 3 because of the No. 3 rifle's barrel band. That's the theory. On open sighted rifles shooting the .45-70, I can't detect a difference. My No. 3 .22 Hornet is of modest accuracy (around 1.5 inches at 100 yards with 296 powder), but I don't buy these for accuracy. If accuracy was my criteria, I would buy a Savage bolt action. Either the No. 1 or the No. 3 will deliver acceptable accuracy for hunting (in my opinion; others will probably disagree).
In my opinion, the single shot Ruger rifles are the most elegant rifles ever offered as a normal production item. I think there are others here on this board that would agree with me.
John E Davies
Single-Sixer
I'm not familiar with the No 3 but this thread has some good info:
http://www.shootersforum.com/single-shot-rifles/42865-ruger-3-a.html
John Davies
Spokane WA USA
http://www.shootersforum.com/single-shot-rifles/42865-ruger-3-a.html
John Davies
Spokane WA USA
picketpin
Buckeye
The SINGLE biggest difference, what makes a #1 a #1 and a #3 a #3 is how and where the action locks. All the rest of it can be thought of as cosmetic. Sights, barrel tapper, style of wood etc are all interchangeable.
What is NOT the same is the style of the lever and where it locks. The #1 has a two piece lever that runs under the trigger guard bow. The bottom portion of the lever has a latch that locks into a hole cut into the bottom of the trigger guard bow. Depressing the bottom portion of the #1 lever disengages the latch and allows the breach block to drop. The #3 has a single piece lever that forms the "trigger guard" when closed
The #3 actually locks inside the the action itself. There is a a spring loaded plunger in the right rear of of the lever that latches in a detent in the rear of the action. There is no mechanical latch other than the spring pressure holding the plunger into the detent. Working the lever simply applies enough force to over come the tension of the spring holding the plunger into the detent.
Everything else will swap between the two actions BUT you can NOT install a #3 lever into a #1 or vice versa without making significant modifications.
Oh and the roll engraving on the action top say #1 or #3.
I use quite a few #3 actions for custom, semi custom hunting rifles. The advantage to me is WHERE the action/lever locks. If you hunt with #1 a lot and especially trough brush then at some point the lever catches on something, usually the pocket of my coat or vest and either is lose when I'm ready to shoot or as has happened more than once, open with a cartridge out there in the desert...somewhere. My wife sewed the pockets on my jackets and vest closed and early on I started putting a large rubber band around the #1 lever to prevent opening the lever inadvertently.
I finally started making #2s, a #3 action with #1 wood, barrel etc. I never actually kept a #3 as a #3. Every one I've ever purchased was pulled apart for the action. They used to be pretty inexpensive on the used market, especially when compared to #1s.
The only down side to me is the shape of the #3 lever. There is no way to hold the stock lever without putting you index finger in the trigger guard curve and your second finger in the tight curve to the rear of that, then your ring finger ends up under the rear of the lever. That works just fine if your shooting a 218 Bee or 223 BUT I can't imagine torching off a 45-70 with my fingers there. You Will get a substantial wrap on the Social and ring finger from the lever on a #3 with anything that kicks. It's the same shape as the lever on Winchester High/Low Walls and Browning copies the 78/85/78.
I have a vintage High Wall in 45-90 that had been alter MANY years ago. The lever had simply been cut in half at the middle of the curve, behind the "trigger guard". It is then flipped over and re-welded that makes the rear portion fit flat against the stock, if straight wristed or it can be bent to follow the curve of the pistol grip. It leaves a small portion at the tip that bends away from the stock that you can hook with your little finger to initiate the throw of the lever. That eliminates the knuckle wrap. I've modified most of my "hunting" #2s to that shape of lever.
I'm one of those guys that never really "liked" the #3 as produced and could never rationalize the Small price difference. In 1981 the difference in price was $121. The #1 was a much more attractive rifle often with killer wood offered in a wide range of cartridges and configurations. The #3 just never had much of a market. I certainly never bought one to simply "shoot"
The #3 was first cataloged in the 1972 catalog as a 45-70.The Wilson book says 1973 but I was looking at a 1972 catalog when I typed this. They added the 30-40 and the 22 Hornet in 1973. The 223 and 375 Win were added to the 1979 catalog when the 30-40 was dropped. The 44 Mag was added to the 1981 catalog and the 375 Win was dropped. Prior to 1980 #3s had their own serial number range. From introduction till 1980 serial numbers were in the 130-50000 to 130-70344. From 1980 to 1986 they were simply included withing the #1 serial numbers. The #3 was discontinued in 1986.
Ross
What is NOT the same is the style of the lever and where it locks. The #1 has a two piece lever that runs under the trigger guard bow. The bottom portion of the lever has a latch that locks into a hole cut into the bottom of the trigger guard bow. Depressing the bottom portion of the #1 lever disengages the latch and allows the breach block to drop. The #3 has a single piece lever that forms the "trigger guard" when closed
The #3 actually locks inside the the action itself. There is a a spring loaded plunger in the right rear of of the lever that latches in a detent in the rear of the action. There is no mechanical latch other than the spring pressure holding the plunger into the detent. Working the lever simply applies enough force to over come the tension of the spring holding the plunger into the detent.
Everything else will swap between the two actions BUT you can NOT install a #3 lever into a #1 or vice versa without making significant modifications.
Oh and the roll engraving on the action top say #1 or #3.
I use quite a few #3 actions for custom, semi custom hunting rifles. The advantage to me is WHERE the action/lever locks. If you hunt with #1 a lot and especially trough brush then at some point the lever catches on something, usually the pocket of my coat or vest and either is lose when I'm ready to shoot or as has happened more than once, open with a cartridge out there in the desert...somewhere. My wife sewed the pockets on my jackets and vest closed and early on I started putting a large rubber band around the #1 lever to prevent opening the lever inadvertently.
I finally started making #2s, a #3 action with #1 wood, barrel etc. I never actually kept a #3 as a #3. Every one I've ever purchased was pulled apart for the action. They used to be pretty inexpensive on the used market, especially when compared to #1s.
The only down side to me is the shape of the #3 lever. There is no way to hold the stock lever without putting you index finger in the trigger guard curve and your second finger in the tight curve to the rear of that, then your ring finger ends up under the rear of the lever. That works just fine if your shooting a 218 Bee or 223 BUT I can't imagine torching off a 45-70 with my fingers there. You Will get a substantial wrap on the Social and ring finger from the lever on a #3 with anything that kicks. It's the same shape as the lever on Winchester High/Low Walls and Browning copies the 78/85/78.
I have a vintage High Wall in 45-90 that had been alter MANY years ago. The lever had simply been cut in half at the middle of the curve, behind the "trigger guard". It is then flipped over and re-welded that makes the rear portion fit flat against the stock, if straight wristed or it can be bent to follow the curve of the pistol grip. It leaves a small portion at the tip that bends away from the stock that you can hook with your little finger to initiate the throw of the lever. That eliminates the knuckle wrap. I've modified most of my "hunting" #2s to that shape of lever.
I'm one of those guys that never really "liked" the #3 as produced and could never rationalize the Small price difference. In 1981 the difference in price was $121. The #1 was a much more attractive rifle often with killer wood offered in a wide range of cartridges and configurations. The #3 just never had much of a market. I certainly never bought one to simply "shoot"
The #3 was first cataloged in the 1972 catalog as a 45-70.The Wilson book says 1973 but I was looking at a 1972 catalog when I typed this. They added the 30-40 and the 22 Hornet in 1973. The 223 and 375 Win were added to the 1979 catalog when the 30-40 was dropped. The 44 Mag was added to the 1981 catalog and the 375 Win was dropped. Prior to 1980 #3s had their own serial number range. From introduction till 1980 serial numbers were in the 130-50000 to 130-70344. From 1980 to 1986 they were simply included withing the #1 serial numbers. The #3 was discontinued in 1986.
Ross
Silent Sam
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Messages
- 728
"The only down side to me is the shape of the #3 lever. There is no way to hold the stock lever without putting you index finger in the trigger guard curve and your second finger in the tight curve to the rear of that, then your ring finger ends up under the rear of the lever."
I have a #3 in 45-70 and I don't put my ring finger behind that lever. I keep it on the outside of the lever w/ no problem and no whacked fingers. I too prefer the #3 action over the #1 although the #1 is arguably "prettier". Many, (most?) #3s are drilled & tapped so mounting a scope is not a big deal.
I have a #3 in 45-70 and I don't put my ring finger behind that lever. I keep it on the outside of the lever w/ no problem and no whacked fingers. I too prefer the #3 action over the #1 although the #1 is arguably "prettier". Many, (most?) #3s are drilled & tapped so mounting a scope is not a big deal.
8) :wink: PicketPin and Gatling: Kudos from the RF Peanut Gallery for succinct and crisp commentaries on the #3s and #1s. I am certain that many will enjoy and be informed. :!:
There is one No.3 Chambered in 30-06. I sold it off my Table in Tulsa with all the pictures & factory letters a few years back. J/S
wunbe
Buckeye
Another aspect of the #3 lever is that I find it harder when wearing gloves to access the trigger w/o getting some contact between my lower fingers and the lever. I have always found that my best repeatable accuracy comes with nothing but my trigger finger on the trigger.
My two custom #3s thus have english style, straight, rear stocks which gives me a firm grip on the wrist w/o anything touching the lever.
wunb
My two custom #3s thus have english style, straight, rear stocks which gives me a firm grip on the wrist w/o anything touching the lever.
wunb
picketpin
Buckeye
Okay, I'm sitting here with a #2 with a modified factory #1 stock on it to make the butt stock a straight wrist/non pistol grip "English Style Stock". The #3 lever is as of yet, unchanged. Length of pull is still factory.
With my finger i the "trigger guard I have three choices as I see it.
One: Index finger on the trigger. Middle finger behind the trigger guard, in the curve of the lever and the ring and little finger on top of the rear portion of the lever.
Two: Index finger on the trigger, social finger behind the trigger guard, in the curve of the lever, ring finger under the rear of the lever and on the stock, little finger past the rear of th lever and on the stock.
Three: Index finger on the trigger, social finger behind the curve of the levr, under the rear portion under the "tail" of the lever, ring and little finger grasping the stock, past the end of the lever.
To me any one of the three viable positions places the social finger against metal and it can and does get whacked under recoil. I actually prefer to grasp it in position 2 and then both your social and ring finger get whacked. This rifle is a 257AI with a 26" "B" barrel so recoil isn't all that much and the only reason the lever hasn't been modified, YET.
My Browning 78 in 30-338 has essentually the same lever and with 165s or 180s will smack your finger black and blue every time. It only took one range session to have the levr altered to fit flat along the stock once past the trigger guard.
Holding a #1 with a standard pistol grip stock or an altered #1 stock with a straight wrist allows you to position your social finger behind the back of the trigger guard, under the levr and have 1/4 - 1/2 inches of clearance from the metal. I haven't noticed getting "whacked with some pretty stiff recoiling rifles, 7mm STW, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag etc.
The Mach IVs wear unmodified #3 levers but that's ZERO recoil. Exactly how do you hold a factory #3 with factory wood in order to keep from getting Bitten??? A friend punched his 375 Win to 375 H&H. That thing bit, everywhere. ;-)
Ross
With my finger i the "trigger guard I have three choices as I see it.
One: Index finger on the trigger. Middle finger behind the trigger guard, in the curve of the lever and the ring and little finger on top of the rear portion of the lever.
Two: Index finger on the trigger, social finger behind the trigger guard, in the curve of the lever, ring finger under the rear of the lever and on the stock, little finger past the rear of th lever and on the stock.
Three: Index finger on the trigger, social finger behind the curve of the levr, under the rear portion under the "tail" of the lever, ring and little finger grasping the stock, past the end of the lever.
To me any one of the three viable positions places the social finger against metal and it can and does get whacked under recoil. I actually prefer to grasp it in position 2 and then both your social and ring finger get whacked. This rifle is a 257AI with a 26" "B" barrel so recoil isn't all that much and the only reason the lever hasn't been modified, YET.
My Browning 78 in 30-338 has essentually the same lever and with 165s or 180s will smack your finger black and blue every time. It only took one range session to have the levr altered to fit flat along the stock once past the trigger guard.
Holding a #1 with a standard pistol grip stock or an altered #1 stock with a straight wrist allows you to position your social finger behind the back of the trigger guard, under the levr and have 1/4 - 1/2 inches of clearance from the metal. I haven't noticed getting "whacked with some pretty stiff recoiling rifles, 7mm STW, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag etc.
The Mach IVs wear unmodified #3 levers but that's ZERO recoil. Exactly how do you hold a factory #3 with factory wood in order to keep from getting Bitten??? A friend punched his 375 Win to 375 H&H. That thing bit, everywhere. ;-)
Ross
Floridaoutdoors
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- May 21, 2011
- Messages
- 210
I had a No.3 in .375 Winchester Big Bore.I was attracted to the basic,clean lines,light and handy design.
I was looking for a .44 but found the .375 new in the box. It replaced my Winchester Trapper 30/30 as field gun.
Finally,I became less interested in finding relatively rare .375 Win BB ammo and followed up on the dream to have a No.1 International with great wood.30-06.
I found the No.1 International 30-06 was more comfy to shoot than the No.3 with it's hard edge metal butt plate and stock design difference.
I had a giant rubber recoil pad that was made for the No.3 but it was so big and chunky it affected length of pull and looked absolutely rediculous so I never used it.
I was looking for a .44 but found the .375 new in the box. It replaced my Winchester Trapper 30/30 as field gun.
Finally,I became less interested in finding relatively rare .375 Win BB ammo and followed up on the dream to have a No.1 International with great wood.30-06.
I found the No.1 International 30-06 was more comfy to shoot than the No.3 with it's hard edge metal butt plate and stock design difference.
I had a giant rubber recoil pad that was made for the No.3 but it was so big and chunky it affected length of pull and looked absolutely rediculous so I never used it.
Timber Wolf
Single-Sixer
I have both, a #3 in 45/70 and a #1 in 30-06. The #1 is a joy to look at, shoot, and carry. The #3 is, well not that pretty and I have never actually shot it in over 20 years of owning it. 
I HAVE A COUPLE #3'S......22 HORNET WITH #1A WOOD, SANS FRONT SIGHT AND W/BLANKED REAR SIGHT SLOT........"A THING" OF BEAUTY; SECOND IS AN UN MOD'ED, METAL-WISE, 30 40, WITH #1B WOOD(SOME SAY THIS IS A #2A.), NOT AS "CUTE" AS THE HORNET, BUT A FORMAT THAT RUGER SHOULD HAVE OFFERED........CAME OUT OF A CALIFORNIA RUGER COLLECTOR'S ESTATE. NUMBER 3'S HAVE NOT LIT MY CANDLE, UNLESS PRICED SO I CANNOT IGNORE THEM OR IT. NOW, A NUMBER ONE A IN 223 WILL GET ME FIRED UP, PRONTO........... 8)
