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 Post subject: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:07 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1989
Location: Leaving California .....
Yesterday I picked up 4 pistols, each pretty much NIB despite different ages - a new Ruger SBH Bisley in 454, a Charter Arms Undercover 3" bbl, H&R 649 with 22 and 22 mag cylinders and a Colt "357" model. So, a brand new Ruger revolver and two older economy types - and a Colt with that "delicate" older action. And which one is giving me headaches ...... :roll:

The SBH was a little tough to cock on a few chambers when I was playing with it at the store, but I figured it was just a bit tight. Got it home and very quickly discovered the hammer would cock about halfway and then lock up. Removed the cylinder, all is well. Hammer cocks fine. Reassemble, problem reappears. Swing open the loading gate as though loading - cylinder turns clockwise just a bit but won't turn clockwise to load.

I removed the grip frame, pawl plunger and spring, pointed the gun down so that gravity would have the pawl engage the cylinder ratchet. Gun "functions" fine. Drop in the pawl and spring, hold them in place and the problem reappears. Something is wrong with the interaction of the ratchet and hand. The ratchets look clean and sharp. I'd expect there's a problem with the pawl.

I've done minor gunsmithing on handguns and rifles for about 45 years and know my limitations, mostly "cleaning up" with wet n' dry paper and spring kits. Replacing parts on older Colts. I can repair and time up an old Colt or Smith, haven't done the same on Ruger (or needed to). Any suggestions on how to correct?

I'd rather not (yet) send the gun back to Ruger. SBH pawls seem to be in short supply on the internet, but I found one as a back up in case I need it. Maybe this is the time to put in a Power Custom "free spin" pawl?

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:57 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:01 am
Posts: 16171
Location: Milo Maine
SBH Bisley 44 mag is one of my favorites! When I go to the safe it begs to go shooting!
So I do my part and comply :D ps

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:59 am 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:36 am
Posts: 2344
Location: Va.
Why not send it back? It should come back in better than new condition...at least in my case it did.
Nothing to loose!


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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:23 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1989
Location: Leaving California .....
Mus408 wrote:
Why not send it back? It should come back in better than new condition...at least in my case it did.
Nothing to loose!


That may happen if it's something other than the hand. I can do a Colt hand easy, a Ruger SA should be no problem. But I don't want to try it on the "factory issue" one, in case it does go back.

I like my Rugers and have a fair number of them, but inside and out the fit and finish of this gun is not quality work. There are burrs all over the internals, bluing was off on the front sight. The base was rough polished and even the darned cold rolled pin wasn't pushed in properly. The grip frame doesn't line up well with the receiver and even the front grip frame screw was a bit buggered. Quite a difference between it and a BH bought around 1994.

Thus far, I'll take a shot that it's the hand. Anything else and I'll ship it back.

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:59 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:01 pm
Posts: 7230
Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia
I think you have so many issues, sending it back is the best recourse.

Call and get a pre paid shipping label. You'll have it back within 12 days or less.

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Ruger single action "collector, accumulator, builder and shooter"
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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:26 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1989
Location: Leaving California .....
Well a new hand cured the problem. There are two tight "chambers" during thumb cocking but I suspect they'll loosen up. I'm inclined now to handle a Ruger before buying, rather than going the "sight unseen" route.

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:02 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:01 pm
Posts: 7230
Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia
The stainless guns are infamous for the hand binding because SS galls easily with sharp edges. Usually just knocking off the upper right front corner of the hand (like Colt SAA hands) does the trick. You can also file the hand to free spin the cyl so chambers can be lined up with the loading gate. Or after filing the hand to free spin the cyl so the chambers will align themselves at the 'click' by installing the NM Flat Top RIPS (Ruger indexing Pawl System) in the hammer channel:

Modify your pawl to a free wheel cylinder pawl. No cost and almost no skill required:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/FreeSpin.html


You can see the RIPS device (3 parts) in the recoil shield to the lower left of the cyl pin hole shown below:

Image
Photo by Hossbreed44.

Hex retaining screw in hammer channel for spring and indexing pawl button:

Image

“Reverse Indexing Pawl System" parts:

Names of parts, Ruger Part #s & Brownell Part #s (about $15 total)

Ejector/chamber Alignment Pawl (not to be confused with the Cyl pawl)………..KMVQ04502….780-001-292ah
Cylinder rotation Stop Spring……………………………………………………………………………..KMVQ04500….780-001-293ah
Cylinder Rotation Alignment Pawl & Spring Retention Screw…………………………….KMVQ04501….780-001-294ah

But I'd still send the gun back for all the other issues and get some factory special attention for free.

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Ruger single action "collector, accumulator, builder and shooter"
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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:21 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1989
Location: Leaving California .....
^

The gun has no hole in it for the RIPS system

The problem is avoided by assertively thumb cocking. But going slow the hammer comes back about halfway and the cylinder binds. Relaxing rearward pressure a bit takes upward pressure by the hand off the cylinder ratchet and resuming it allows for completion. I'm inclined to think that sharp right edge is causing the hesitation. I don't know if it's on the upper hand or lower though

Ruger is sending me a free pawl. Evidently the 454 one is different than others. Part #KMR00703.

I really don't want to send this back to Ruger. I've cleaned up the inside, nice and polished. My concern is I'll get a cylinder that turns fine and the other parts poorly finished.

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:48 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:01 pm
Posts: 7230
Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia
The gun will not have the hole for the RIPS if a model doesn't normally come with it. It must be drilled and threaded. Pretty simple however.

The problem is always the upper hand 'tooth'. It doesn't hurt to hone all the sharp edges of both the hand and the ratchet 'teeth'.

Now that you'll get an extra hand, you can experiment with one. You may even modify one for a free spin cyl (per the marauder link in my post above) and not need the RIPS parts.

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Jim
Ruger single action "collector, accumulator, builder and shooter"
NRA Life
CRPA Life
CRPC Life
SASS Life
SWCA
RCA


Last edited by Hondo44 on Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:15 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1989
Location: Leaving California .....
Hondo44 wrote:
The gun will not have the hole for the RIPS if doesn't normally come with it. It must be drilled and threaded. Pretty simple however.

The problem is always the upper hand 'tooth'. It doesn't hurt to hone all the sharp edges of both hand 'teeth'.

Now that you'll get an extra hand, you can experiment with one. You may even modify one for a free spin cyl (per the marauder link in my post above) and not need the RIPS parts.


Thanks for the info. The gun already free spins - no mod to the pawl, no RIPS installed. There's alot of wiggle room in the slot for the pawl. I'm starting to wonder if the wrong pawl was installed at the factory.

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:39 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1989
Location: Leaving California .....
Ruger sent me a new pawl, specific to the 454, which I fitted and the problem seems mostly solved. I get a little hesitation on one chamber when I slowly thumb cock the hammer, but it seems to be easing up. I'll put a few rounds through it, see how things go.

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dsf

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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:30 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:01 pm
Posts: 7230
Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia
dfletcher wrote:
Ruger sent me a new pawl, specific to the 454, which I fitted and the problem seems mostly solved. I get a little hesitation on one chamber when I slowly thumb cock the hammer, but it seems to be easing up. I'll put a few rounds through it, see how things go.


Cool!
From my 3rd post above:
Hondo44 wrote:
It doesn't hurt to hone all the sharp edges of both the hand and ratchet 'teeth'.


For one thing, you won't have strands and/or lint from cleaning patches clinging to all those sharp edges.

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Jim
Ruger single action "collector, accumulator, builder and shooter"
NRA Life
CRPA Life
CRPC Life
SASS Life
SWCA
RCA


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 Post subject: Re: Super BH Bisley
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1989
Location: Leaving California .....
Hondo44 wrote:
dfletcher wrote:
Ruger sent me a new pawl, specific to the 454, which I fitted and the problem seems mostly solved. I get a little hesitation on one chamber when I slowly thumb cock the hammer, but it seems to be easing up. I'll put a few rounds through it, see how things go.


Cool!
From my 3rd post above:
Hondo44 wrote:
It doesn't hurt to hone all the sharp edges of both the hand and ratchet 'teeth'.


For one thing, you won't have strands and/or lint from cleaning patches clinging to all those sharp edges.


My brain tells me to do exactly as you suggest, my gut isn't quite up to it now. This has been a pretty aggravating thing to iron out. Already smoothed the ratchet "teeth" and the hand is pretty clean and smooth. But there is something still binding, just a bit, at the halfway point. Not sure what the heck it is, but am visualizing that just as the upper hand is passing off the lifting load to the lower hand - something is not just right. No problems when working it positively, just when I go light & easy.

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