.44 special shooting high

Colonel Daddy · Aug 24, 2014

Seems I remember an article a couple years ago where member "Six-Shot" actually built up the front sight by using JB Weld. Degrease the front sight, clamp 2 popsicle sticks to the side of the sight, fill with JB Weld. Let it harden, remove the sticks and file the sight to the correct height. Mind you now, and everyone else, I have never tried this but Six-Shot claimed it worked!

DGW1949 · Aug 24, 2014

6-o'clock works great so long as you're allways shooting at the same size bull, and allways from the same distance. Otherwize, you're gonna miss 'cause the gun aint shooting where the front sight is looking.
On the other hand, center is allways center, no matter what size the target is....squirrel, rabbit, deer, pig, man, Coke can or oil drum....it's all the same.
I guess that what I'm getting at is that I aint smart enough to use a 6-o'clock hold for "sighting in" a weapon. Heck, I have enough trouble figuring distance, wind and bullet drop as it is.....let alone trying to do all of that with a gun that was "zero'ed" to shoot way-high to start with.

At any rate, getting back to the OP.......yeah, some guns do shoot high with their factory-supplied sighting arrangement. Ruger SA's are famous for that, and there aint but three things that can be done about it:
1) Raise the front.
2) Lower the rear.
3) Develop some sort of "specialty load" just for that one gun.

Me personaly, I much prefer lowering the rear, especialy if I'm going to use said gun for anything other than a range toy. Reason is, the other two have drawbacks of their own which I'd rather not deal with unless I just had to.....so....that's what I'd try first.

But that's just me.

DGW

CraigC · Aug 25, 2014

s4s4u said:
Who does that? May be fine for bullseye comp but thats about it.

s4s4u said:
6 o'clock is fine for a predermined target size at a predetermined distance, but not applicable in my real world handgunning. Hunting and defense are my primary concerns and center hold is the most effective, whether using irons or optics.

DGW1949 said:
6-o'clock works great so long as you're allways shooting at the same size bull, and allways from the same distance. Otherwize, you're gonna miss 'cause the gun aint shooting where the front sight is looking.

Come on guys, a 6:00 hold does not mean you have to zero the sights to hit in the middle of the bull. No matter what you're doing, whether load testing or practicing, unless you're shooting for points, the POI can be anywhere. The point of this hold is that it is easier to consistently bracket your sights against the bottom of the target. I prefer to use square targets with square sights. I use the 6:00 hold but you think I zero for the center of the target? No, that's just silly. I zero so that my bullets pile right on top of the front sight. It makes absolutely no difference that they happen to be at the bottom of the target.

s4s4u · Aug 25, 2014

I use the 6:00 hold but you think I zero for the center of the target? No, that's just silly. I zero so that my bullets pile right on top of the front sight. It makes absolutely no difference that they happen to be at the bottom of the target.

IOW, you are using a center hold at the bottom of the target.

Chuck 100 yd · Aug 25, 2014

I use a 6:00 hold and adjust the sights to impact just above the front sight on the bull at 6:00. I shoot for group size and care not about the score rings. That way I know exactly where the bullet "should" impact on game.

CraigC · Aug 25, 2014

s4s4u said:
I use the 6:00 hold but you think I zero for the center of the target? No, that's just silly. I zero so that my bullets pile right on top of the front sight. It makes absolutely no difference that they happen to be at the bottom of the target.

Click to expand...

IOW, you are using a center hold at the bottom of the target.

No, I'm using a 6:00 hold and adjusting my sights so the bullet impacts where I want it to.

"Center hold" and "6:00 hold" has nothing to do with point of impact. It has EVERYTHING to do with where you HOLD your sights on the target.

Rclark · Aug 25, 2014

"Center hold" and "6:00 hold" has nothing to do with point of impact.

Really? If I use center hold it hits right there 'in the center'. If I use 6:00 hold it hits low below center. I'd have to 'adjust' my sights for 6:00 hold. So to me it does impact POI

. I've tried the 6:00 hold and it just isn't natural to have the target hovering 'above' the sights. Each of us has our own method I suspect, and what works for one may not work for someone else.

Chuck 100 yd · Aug 25, 2014

With the 6:00 hold the background of the sight blade is white/straw (target base color) and I can see the gap between the front sight blade and the rear notch so I can even it up to center the blade in the rear sight. When using a center hold I can not tell if the blade is centered in the rear notch due to the background being all black. When shooting at paper plates a center hold works great. If you can see that well,GOOD FOR YOU. Wait until you are a little older. To each his/her own preference. If it works for you,do it.

CraigC · Aug 25, 2014

Rclark said:
Really? If I use center hold it hits right there 'in the center'. If I use 6:00 hold it hits low below center. I'd have to 'adjust' my sights for 6:00 hold. So to me it does impact POI . I've tried the 6:00 hold and it just isn't natural to have the target hovering 'above' the sights. Each of us has our own method I suspect, and what works for one may not work for someone else.

The two are mutually exclusive. Center or 6:00 ONLY pertains to your sight picture. It has nothing to do with POI. You can use a 6:00 hold and zero it to print a foot high if you like, it doesn't change the fact that you're holding at 6:00. Look at the picture you posted. Does the POI have anything to do with which sight picture you use?

You guys are making this way more complicated than it is.

DGW1949 · Aug 26, 2014

CraigC said:
Rclark said:

Really? If I use center hold it hits right there 'in the center'. If I use 6:00 hold it hits low below center. I'd have to 'adjust' my sights for 6:00 hold. So to me it does impact POI . I've tried the 6:00 hold and it just isn't natural to have the target hovering 'above' the sights. Each of us has our own method I suspect, and what works for one may not work for someone else.

Click to expand...

The two are mutually exclusive. Center or 6:00 ONLY pertains to your sight picture. It has nothing to do with POI. You can use a 6:00 hold and zero it to print a foot high if you like, it doesn't change the fact that you're holding at 6:00. Look at the picture you posted. Does the POI have anything to do with which sight picture you use?

You guys are making this way more complicated than it is.

You are right. That works great at the shooting range against a conventional paper target.
Take that same gun to the woods though, and it'll shoot right over the top of a squirell, or so low on a deer that you'll likely loose it after it runs off.....depending of course, on "what gun" and the distance it was sighted at VS the distance it's being used at, meaning that the distance disrepency between the two is only constant at two fixed distances which are so apart that anything in between is allmost useless.

In other words, center is allways center, and it's mostly a strait line.
6-o'clock?...not so much. Actualy it's a very pronounced arc.
It would be easy to argue the details of that....but I'm sure that you get the point.

DGW

mindustrial · Aug 26, 2014

Ya but... if you're shooting high, and your rear sight is all the way down, and you you're not inclined to physically alter your sights or get different ammo; then the only option is to....aim lower ( ala 6:00)

CraigC · Aug 29, 2014

DGW1949 said:
You are right. That works great at the shooting range against a conventional paper target.
Take that same gun to the woods though, and it'll shoot right over the top of a squirell, or so low on a deer that you'll likely loose it after it runs off.....depending of course, on "what gun" and the distance it was sighted at VS the distance it's being used at, meaning that the distance disrepency between the two is only constant at two fixed distances which are so apart that anything in between is allmost useless.

In other words, center is allways center, and it's mostly a strait line.
6-o'clock?...not so much. Actualy it's a very pronounced arc.
It would be easy to argue the details of that....but I'm sure that you get the point.

I rarely shoot at paper and you are obviously not reading what I'm writing.

This is NOT what I'm talking about. :roll:

DPris · Aug 30, 2014

Not directly related to the sight issue, but the Prisbrey Report volume 2014-2 is out on Kindle/Amazon, for Ruger Flattop .44 fans.

Ruger, Lipsey's, And The .44 Special.

Covers standard Flattop & current Bisley, both .44 Special.
Shooting comps, leather, etc.
Denis

Rclark · Aug 30, 2014

Craig, I do understand what you are trying to say, but where I aim is where I want the bullet to impact. And a center hold does that for me. I am not going to mentally adjust the sight picture to think I have to aim an inch low to get impact on target an inch high... Nope not going to happen. To me, the 'Center hold' is the proper sight alignment.

CraigC · Aug 30, 2014

No, clearly you do not understand what I'm trying to say. Because I TOO want the bullet to impact where I aim. I'll try one more time. POA and POI are 100% mutually exclusive. Center and 6 o`lock hold has nothing to do with POI, only POA, where you hold your sight picture on the PAPER target. It has nothing to do with your zero. I do NOT adjust my sights so that the bullet impacts in the center of the bullseye. I adjust them so that the bullet impacts right on top of the front sight. Not under the front sight (cover the target), not one, two or three inches over it, right on top. The only difference between my shooting and yours, is that I do not give a damn about hitting the center of the bullseye. I bracket my sights against the lower edge of the target, where you bracket yours against the middle. Our zero is the same.

Sure, you can use a 6:00 hold and zero to hit the center of the target. That's not what I do, it's not what I'm talking about and that's not what is meant by a 6:00 hold. I zero my sights to hit AT the 6:00 position. Not above it. You guys act as if there are only two choices here.

So no, it does not cause one to miss a squirrel's head or any other damn thing in the field. :roll:

s4s4u · Aug 30, 2014

I bracket my sights against the lower edge of the target, where you bracket yours against the middle. Our zero is the same.

As I said earlier, you are using a center hold on the bottom of the target ;-)

CraigC · Aug 30, 2014

s4s4u said:
I bracket my sights against the lower edge of the target, where you bracket yours against the middle. Our zero is the same.

Click to expand...

As I said earlier, you are using a center hold on the bottom of the target ;-)

That is a contradicting statement.

No, it is a 6 o`clock hold with a center zero. As I said before and you are obviously too dense to understand, the "hold" has nothing to do with zero. It ONLY pertains to where you HOLD your sights on the target. Jesus Christ, this isn't that difficult to understand. That I am zeroing to hit on top of the front sight does not change the fact that I'm using a 6 o`clock hold.

The purpose of the 6 o`clock hold is that it is easier to bracket your sights against the bottom of the target and a light background than it is the center, where the sight can get lost on a black target. Obviously, if you are shooting for score, it matters where the bullet impacts and thus, you want to adjust your sights so that it impacts in the middle of the target. A competitive shooter using the 6 o'clock hold would obviously want to zero to hit the X-ring. If you are testing for accuracy, then you want to use the most consistent method for sighting and that is the 6 o`clock. Where the bullet impacts in relation to the bull is completely irrelevant as long as the group is on paper. Same for practice. The "HOLD" only pertains to where on the target you place your front sight, not where the bullet impacts.

s4s4u · Aug 30, 2014

too dense to understand

Did you seriously just say that? I guess I could say the same for you. If you are zeroing to the top of your front sight that is a CENTER HOLD, regardless of where your sights are pointed. I am done with you now.

CraigC · Aug 30, 2014

s4s4u said:
too dense to understand

Click to expand...

Did you seriously just say that? I guess I could say the same for you. If you are zeroing to the top of your front sight that is a CENTER HOLD. I am done with you now.

THE HOLD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ZERO!!!!!!!!!

Boge · Aug 30, 2014

CraigC said:
...As I said before and you are obviously too dense to understand, the "hold" has nothing to do with zero. It ONLY pertains to where you HOLD your sights on the target. Jesus Christ, this isn't that difficult to understand. That I am zeroing to hit on top of the front sight does not change the fact that I'm using a 6 o`clock hold...

Craig, you ought to get a handle on your temper before you get in trouble with the moderator. :wink:

.44 special shooting high

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