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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:53 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:36 am
Posts: 2174
Location: Va.
I have started loading up some test rounds in .44 Magnum using the Speer 4453 JHP bullet.
Looking at data using Unique powder the Speer 13th book list the COL at 1.575 which puts the
end of case right in middle of the crimp groove allowing a nice crimp.
The load range is shown as 9.2 - 10.3 Max.

In my 49th Lyman book the same bullet is listed as 1.610 COL and the load data for Unique
is listed as 10.8-12.0 Max.
At a 1.610 length the bullet is right at the lower edge of the crimp groove where it is not as deep.

You definitely get a better looking crimp when the bullet is seated in the 1.575-1.585 range which is where I seat them.
I am loading them to 9.8-10.0 of Unique and shooting for 1000-1100 FPS. out of a 4.25-7.5 barrel length revolvers.
So I assume from this that a .030 difference can require that much of a load difference?

The Speer book doesn't state pressure where the Lyman book does which is 30,500 to 38,700 using their higher load but longer COL of 1.610.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:05 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 986
Location: Kentucky
A +/- 2% case volume increase, gained by increasing the OAL .035" isn't much of a reason for Lymans 17% increase in max load. This is probably waaaaay down the list of reasons.

Each company more than likely has different;

testers, pressure equipment, atmospheric conditions & Lawyers.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:00 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:41 pm
Posts: 796
Location: Oregon
The OAL and loads listed are what the lab tech used when they tested the loads. There are many possible variations for equipment used, testing methods, and components (while the "same" components are listed, there are lot to lot variations). I have been reloading for revolvers since 1969 and have always seated bullets to the cannalure or crimp groove and disregarded book OAL, as my "standard". Never a noticeable variation nor any problems...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:05 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2355
Location: Daegu, Korea
mikld wrote:
The OAL and loads listed are what the lab tech used when they tested the loads. There are many possible variations for equipment used, testing methods, and components (while the "same" components are listed, there are lot to lot variations). I have been reloading for revolvers since 1969 and have always seated bullets to the cannelure or crimp groove and disregarded book OAL, as my "standard". Never a noticeable variation nor any problems...


I agree completely. Don't over think it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:50 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:54 pm
Posts: 3339
Location: Butte, MT
"I agree completely. Don't over think it." +1 .

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A clinger, and a MAGA deplorable. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns! Ruger SA .45 Colt - Don't leave home without it. Oh, a SA .44Spec is acceptable too....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:10 am 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:01 am
Posts: 2673
Location: Eastern Piedmont NC
gunzo wrote:
A +/- 2% case volume increase, gained by increasing the OAL .035" ....


Sorry, I had the calculator in hand as I read this post :oops:

44 mag Case volume 37.9 gr H20 x 0.065 = 2.464 cc
Bullet Dia 0.429
Case volume for 0.035” change in seating depth
(0.429/2^2 X 3.141 X 0.035 X 16.387 =) 0.083cc
Thus about
0.083 / 2.464 = 3.4%
:roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:15 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:36 am
Posts: 2174
Location: Va.
Well have loaded some at 10.0 Unique and will test them out as soon as weather permits.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:43 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 986
Location: Kentucky
JFB wrote:
gunzo wrote:
A +/- 2% case volume increase, gained by increasing the OAL .035" ....


Sorry, I had the calculator in hand as I read this post :oops:

44 mag Case volume 37.9 gr H20 x 0.065 = 2.464 cc
Bullet Dia 0.429
Case volume for 0.035” change in seating depth
(0.429/2^2 X 3.141 X 0.035 X 16.387 =) 0.083cc
Thus about
0.083 / 2.464 = 3.4%
:roll:


LOL 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:16 am 
Single-Sixer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:36 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Savannah
For what it's worth:

Speer #11 lists their #4453 with 11.6gr to 12.6gr (1199fps to 1271fps) of Unique with CCI 350 primers.
"loads are within the industry maximum pressure - 43,500 cup".
Test firearm was a 10" Dan Wesson.
No OAL listed.

Lyman 46th Edition lists the #4453 with 10.0gr to 12.2gr (847fps to 1042fps) of Unique with CCI 300 primers.
Pressure listed is 24,200 to 37,000 C.U.P.
4" test barrel was used.
1.610" OAL.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
Blackhawk

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:41 pm
Posts: 796
Location: Oregon
Wow! All that math gave me a headache! FWIW; I started reloading the 44 Magnum in '90 and have reloaded everything from 123 gr balls over a bit of Bullseye to 310 gr. ingots over near max loads of WC820. I haven't determined the internal capacity with specific bullet seating depths, just seated to crimp groove/cannalure, nor have I trimmed any cases or cleaned any primer pockets. But I'm careful with powder charges and consistency in all steps in reloading. I have produced some pretty accurate loads (240 gr LSWC over WC820 gave me 1"- 1 1/4" groups @ 50' from my Dan Wesson revolver). If all the "extra" steps give you better groups, great, but for me a lot of them weren't necessary...

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