Jim Puke
Hunter
GasGuzzler said:
X 2 :lol:
which reloader
- Thread starter dwd
- Start date
X 2 :lol:
Skalkaho Slim
Blackhawk
Absolutely.GasGuzzler said:
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
revhigh said:
Hi,
No worries, REV...
At last look it appears I have 2 RCBS presses (a Jr. and a Rock Chucker), a Pacific Super C, an old Texan C press that looks pretty much like any of several brands from the late '50s to early '60s, and 2 Lees (a Reloader and a Challenger.) I think that covers the entire gamut of ultralight to extra heavy duty in the single stage world, no? Each has its good points, each its bad. None is perfect.
I also use only Lee dies today. Depending on the caliber, I MAY lube a few cases when running 'em thru their carbide dies. Really slicks things up. But I don't HAVE to w/ ANY of them if I don't want to. I used to use RCBS dies. I like the Lees better. Nobody's made the perfect die set yet, either.
OTOH, I have a Lee scale, a small electronic scale, and three models from RCBS: of them, the RCBS 5-0-5 is the only scale I recommend very often.
And so forth... methinks we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one!
Rick C
dwd said:
One thing to keep in mind while desiding on a press is what really are your reloading needs? how often do you reload and what kind of quanity are you reloading? reloading can be a big investment, spending to little for a press that don't fill your needs is a waste, and so can buying more press than you need, matching your needs with a press is the best investment.
For example say if you just go to the range once or twice a month and shoot 500 or 600 rounds a month stick with your single stage you have or a turret.
If your a competition or cowboy shooter shooting 1000+ then a progressive is the only way to go.
I've got a turret (Harrell and worth every penny); son #2 has a Lyman T-Mag (six holes allow a 4-die pistol setup with a powder station as well, and nearly as accurate in runout readings as my Harrell) and both will allow you to hand seat primers.
That said, for handgun loading, I have a pair of Dillon 550B's and couldn't be happier. They're plenty accurate (they'll load ammunition capable of 1" gps at 25 yds from a rest if I'm having a good eyes day). They're also plenty fast enough for my use...my regular production rate is 200+ rounds an hour. Caliber switches are easy, taking less than 5 minutes. I keep one of them set up for small primers and the other for large. For my use they're plenty fast enough, though I do like the loading process, finding a the best load for my guns is at least half the fun of shooting and too, I don't have an IDPA or other very high volume ammunition habit that might require the complexity and add'l cost of a Dillon 650.
Both of my Dillons have been trouble free and I'll estimate that I've loaded 10,000 round on them over the years. Recently, I broke the primer arm return spring on one of them; called Dillon and had one back in my hands in three days by post...at no cost whatsoever. Great people to do business with, and I'd argue; the best customer service in the industry.
HTH's & Best Regards, Rod
That said, for handgun loading, I have a pair of Dillon 550B's and couldn't be happier. They're plenty accurate (they'll load ammunition capable of 1" gps at 25 yds from a rest if I'm having a good eyes day). They're also plenty fast enough for my use...my regular production rate is 200+ rounds an hour. Caliber switches are easy, taking less than 5 minutes. I keep one of them set up for small primers and the other for large. For my use they're plenty fast enough, though I do like the loading process, finding a the best load for my guns is at least half the fun of shooting and too, I don't have an IDPA or other very high volume ammunition habit that might require the complexity and add'l cost of a Dillon 650.
Both of my Dillons have been trouble free and I'll estimate that I've loaded 10,000 round on them over the years. Recently, I broke the primer arm return spring on one of them; called Dillon and had one back in my hands in three days by post...at no cost whatsoever. Great people to do business with, and I'd argue; the best customer service in the industry.
HTH's & Best Regards, Rod
Look at the Turret presses on YouTube as well. I'll not get into "best" but the Lee is the only auto-indexing Turret press I know of. And you easily disable that to load rifle loads. The Lee Turret cannot load larger rifle loads (30-06, .270 etc.) using the press-mounted powder measure. So it's pretty much single-stage for long case loads. Remember, any fool can make a YouTube video and you will find some/many. But you can at least see the equipment operate.
Jim Puke
Hunter
6gun said:
Been there and done that...at least for me, there will be no more days of loading 500 or 600rds per month with a single stage press.
I enjoy reloading, but not to that extent. That is the reason that I have the progressives bolted to the bench.
Rick Courtright said:
Hey Rick,
Fair enough !
To mention only ONE of the incidents I had with Lee equipment, I bought a set of Lee 454 Casull carbide dies. Started to reload, and virtually every case got stuck in the resizing die. I was lifting my reloading bench off the floor every time i tried to move the handle back up. I called Lee, explaining what was going on, and the person ... Richard .... Asked if I had cleaned my brass. I said .. Uh yeah ... I always clean my brass before reloading. Then he says ... Well ... That's the problem. Huh ? He proceeded to 'explain' how Lee dies needed the carbon on the cases to act as a lubricant ... I honestly thought he was kidding, but he wasn't. I asked what then, was the sense of buying carbide dies, as all my RCBS carbide dies worked slick as snot with perfectly clean gleaming cases. He then said ... Lee carbide dies are 'made differently' and they need either the carbon from being fired ... Or every third round has to be lubricated with motor oil or some other lubricant. I honestly thought he was kidding. Throughout the entire conversation, he was basically rude and acted as if he didn't want to hear it. I learned later that 'Richard' was most likely Richard Lee who has been known to be like that. I don't know whether it was or wasn't Lee himself. The Lee dies went back to Cabelas, RCBS dies came home and the issue went away.
Their supposed 'perfect' powder scale was also junk. What can you expect for $25 ? It constantly had to be rezeroed, was very hard to read, and 'stuck' at the top if it ever reached the full swing. I too prefer the RCBS 505. Built like a tank and never once exhibited the above properties. Perfect every time.
That was the third and final use of Lee equipment that I ever tried. Hey ... If it works for some ... Great ! If you reload a LOT, like I do, buy the better stuff in the beginning ... Either red, blue, or green, and you'll be happy.
Did you ever have cases stick in your dies, or do you lube them.
REV
Jim Luke said:
I hear ya ... I absolutely dread reloading. I just want it to be over while I'm doing it, but then I usually do it with a buddy and we'll do 2000 rounds of a given caliber in every sitting. Then the next day we'll do 2000 more. We force ourselves to do it, three or four days in a row, then don't do it again for another 3-4 months. And I don't shoot anywhere near as much as I used to.
REV
Rodfac said:
Yeah, the Dillons are great presses. I could never recommend against them as long as you go in knowing all the facts. I've used them a few times ... I guess I'm just so conditioned to using a fully progressive press that it just can't get used to having to index the shell plate by hand, and the 650 is just outrageously priced by the time you get it set up nice. The SDB's are great presses too as long as you don't mind having to buy Dillon proprietary dies ... I think most reloaders use the SDB's pretty much dedicated to one caliber only. One thing I like about the Hornady vs the 550 is that the Hornady has 5 stations vs the 550's 4. If you have a thru die powder drop it doesn't matter, but I use a separate station for my powder drop, and a dedicated crimp die in station 5.
Must be nice to have more than one progressive. I only have one progressive and one single stage.
REV
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
revhigh said:
Hi,
So far, knock wood, I've not stuck a pistol case in a Lee carbide die "doing it right." Did stick a 9mm once when I managed to set it atop the shell holder instead of under the lip. Operator error, not lube related! It came out easily following the instructions for removing a stuck case.
I also stuck an '06 case in one of their steel dies once: neglected to lube a few in that batch, and I figure I musta used up any residual lube inside the die before running another "dry" one thru. Another case of operator error. It, too, came out easily, and I check my rifle cases an extra time now to make sure I didn't let one slip. "Ooh, a squirrel!" is how a dear friend describes my attention span...
Using their carbide dies, I've sized cases dirty, washed, and brand new out of the bag. Can't say I've noticed much difference between those three conditions, using no lube. I deprime and resize a lot of my 9mm using the little Lee Reloader press, and once read a "helpful hint" about lubing a few of those cases in every batch cuz of the slight taper of the 9mm.
It worked like a charm: took less effort w/ that tiny press than doing an unlubed case w/ the Rock Chucker! So I expanded the practice to my other pistol calibers, .38/.357 and .44 Spl/Mag. I lube about every 10th one, and it really cuts down the work.
But I haven't HAD to lube any of 'em using carbide dies...
Rick C
Galaxiedan
Blackhawk
I bought the Lee classic turret press kit from midway and it has worked fine so far. I've loaded 3-5k of 357, 45acp, and 44mag on it already. I started by using it as a single stage until I got the process down pat then switched it to auto advance. I did upgrade to the adjustable powder measure instead of the discs. As a novice reloader it seems like a good value and is easy to setup and use. It has the 4 hole turrets that I can set my dies once and switch calibers in a minute. And its on sale now for less than $200 with most everything you need to start.
GasGuzzler
Hawkeye
....but that doesn't matter to mall ninjas because it's the wrong color.
The Blackhawk Kid said:
Gotta disagree with this. I've loaded quality ammo for years on my RCBS stuff. Got 2 Rock Chuckers one with a piggy back progressive setup that RCBS offered. Only down side is it'll only do 223 or shorter. I also haven't hand primed since I stepped up from my Lee Classic loader.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
GasGuzzler said:
Hi,
Wonder why nobody's jumped on the bandwagon and offered a camo press? Now THAT oughta load some REALLY GOOD ammo... :wink:
Rick C
mr surveyor
SP-101
gosh, after having followed this thread up to now I feel like a real loser. I keep myself satisfactorily supplied in .38 spl, .357 mag, .44 mag, .45 acp and .30-30 win with a Lee Hand Press :shock: . Other than the .30-30 RCBS dies, all the rest are Lee carbide dies. Funny thing is that my reloading speed and shooting habits are unfortunately compatible with my ability to find/purchase components.
I feel like such a slug :roll:
surv
I feel like such a slug :roll:
surv
welder
Buckeye
Don't feel bad surveyor, I use an old Rockchucker, various brand dies, (Reddind being my favorite) and a hand prime tool from Lee. I shoot a couple hundred rounds every month or so and am able to supply that need as well as fill several ammo cans at my leisure. I load .38, .357, 9mm and .45acp along with a few .223. That's it.
Reloading is one of my favorite hobbies and the time I spend doing it is relaxing to me. I have neither the time or opportunity to shoot as much as I would like just now but look forward to the day when I can hit the range 2 or 3 times a week if I choose. Then maybe a progressive will be in order and I suspect it will be a Dillion because of the service they have given me on lesser purchases.
Reloading is one of my favorite hobbies and the time I spend doing it is relaxing to me. I have neither the time or opportunity to shoot as much as I would like just now but look forward to the day when I can hit the range 2 or 3 times a week if I choose. Then maybe a progressive will be in order and I suspect it will be a Dillion because of the service they have given me on lesser purchases.
Huhwhat?
Blackhawk
I use a turret press.
Lost Sheep
Single-Sixer
As I read it, you want to deprime/reprime by hand and then use a progressive press to size, bell, charge, seat and crimp.
Any progressive will do that. Just remove the depriming pin from any dies you have.
I think most respondents thought you intended to size, remove the case, prime and continue operations. On a progressive, that would be counterproductive, as it would interrupt the workflow.
Lee Precision's presses have a reputation for requiring a lot of care and adjusting. I used a pair of Lee Pro-1000 presses (one for large primers and one for small). For your purposes, I would recommend the Pro-1000 with the caveat that seating and crimping at one station is required, as the press has only three stations. Pretty much all the problems I had with the Pro-1000 had to do with primers.
Lee Loadmaster, at a small bit more expensive might be worth a look, especially as it has 5 stations.
Dillon 550 does not auto-index, but will do rifle calibers as well as pistol
Dillon Square Deal does only pistol calibers and will not accept other makers' dies, but will do auto-indexing
Hornady's Lock'n'load is said to be virtually equivalent to Dillon's 650 in operation, but less money.,
Dillon's 650 is capable of over 500 rounds an hour. If you need that level of output, go for it, but it will cost you some bucks for the case feed and bullet feed that makes that level of output possible.
RCBS Progressive might be an excellent choice for you. The biggest objection I have to it is that the RCBS requires their APC priming system to handle priming (which you neatly bypass by hand-priming).
I did not like monitoring multiple simultaneous operations, so got a Lee Classic Turret (the BEST auto-indexing 4-station turret press in current production, at any price anywhere on the planet, bar none) a couple years ago. Traded off the Pro-1000s and my production level is still the same (about 150 per hour).
Ignore anyone who bashes a particular brand without SPECIFIC details about its failings. Especially one who admits incompetence to perform diagnosis or adjustment.
Pretty much every maker produces good product (bad product will drive a manufacturer out of business pretty quick). The big question is, How well does it fit YOUR needs?".
Any progressive will do that. Just remove the depriming pin from any dies you have.
I think most respondents thought you intended to size, remove the case, prime and continue operations. On a progressive, that would be counterproductive, as it would interrupt the workflow.
Lee Precision's presses have a reputation for requiring a lot of care and adjusting. I used a pair of Lee Pro-1000 presses (one for large primers and one for small). For your purposes, I would recommend the Pro-1000 with the caveat that seating and crimping at one station is required, as the press has only three stations. Pretty much all the problems I had with the Pro-1000 had to do with primers.
Lee Loadmaster, at a small bit more expensive might be worth a look, especially as it has 5 stations.
Dillon 550 does not auto-index, but will do rifle calibers as well as pistol
Dillon Square Deal does only pistol calibers and will not accept other makers' dies, but will do auto-indexing
Hornady's Lock'n'load is said to be virtually equivalent to Dillon's 650 in operation, but less money.,
Dillon's 650 is capable of over 500 rounds an hour. If you need that level of output, go for it, but it will cost you some bucks for the case feed and bullet feed that makes that level of output possible.
RCBS Progressive might be an excellent choice for you. The biggest objection I have to it is that the RCBS requires their APC priming system to handle priming (which you neatly bypass by hand-priming).
I did not like monitoring multiple simultaneous operations, so got a Lee Classic Turret (the BEST auto-indexing 4-station turret press in current production, at any price anywhere on the planet, bar none) a couple years ago. Traded off the Pro-1000s and my production level is still the same (about 150 per hour).
Ignore anyone who bashes a particular brand without SPECIFIC details about its failings. Especially one who admits incompetence to perform diagnosis or adjustment.
Pretty much every maker produces good product (bad product will drive a manufacturer out of business pretty quick). The big question is, How well does it fit YOUR needs?".
Lost Sheep
Single-Sixer
Keep in mind that the Lee Classic Turret has a full one inch more vertical space than the Lee Deluxe Turret (is also stronger and has better spent primer handling).steveodtw said:
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Lost Sheep said:
Hi,
Amen to that, LS!
As we see here, folks have widely divergent ideas of how they like to do things. Seems the mfrs of the various bits of equipment have the same approach! And then, we all tend to get used to one approach, which helps brand loyalty: not that Brand A is objectively any better than Brand B, but let's say I've loaded 100k rounds on Brand A, and only tried about 50 or so on Brand B, which FEELS completely different. Familiarity's gonna play a big role in what I think is "best."
Rick C
GasGuzzler
Hawkeye
Amen indeed.
Lost sheep, where were you when I started this thread a month ago. you, and maybe one other, were the only ones that saw what I was trying to do. But, after researching the Hornady lal, I decided that was where I wanted to go. So it is ordered and should be on its way this week. I am very anxious to get started. Right now I am going to start out the way "it is supposed to be set up" but I reserve the right to change it if I don't like it.
Lost Sheep
Single-Sixer
When I first saw the thread I read into it the same interpretation that Anachronism, Contender, gmartinnc and others did. It took me quite a while for the light to come on, that you would use the press in continuous mode, depriming and priming ahead of all the other steps, so as not to interrupt the continuum of steps on the progressive press.dwd said:
CookE
Bearcat
Why would anyone want to hand-prime a case? I bought my 1st. DILLON RL1000, this is when Mike Dillon was making them out of STAINLESS STEEL. I bought it in 1979 for $2300.00. That was almost a few months wages back then for us old guys. Then through the years I bought 5 DILLON 1050's, 1 DILLON 450, and
2 DILLON 550. I guess I failed to say I had a reloading business on the side for 22 years. DILLON IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. As far as priming you don't have a thing to worry about with a DILLON LOADER priming for you in the process. I hope that helps ya a little..............CookE..
2 DILLON 550. I guess I failed to say I had a reloading business on the side for 22 years. DILLON IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. As far as priming you don't have a thing to worry about with a DILLON LOADER priming for you in the process. I hope that helps ya a little..............CookE..
The Blackhawk Kid
Blackhawk
Check out a Dillon Square Deal B. It is progressive, auto index, you can remove the decapping rod and die if you want. It makes more work. I tumble my used brass then just run it thru the Dillon. I don't know why you don't want the resizer/decapper? JMHO BHK
Huhwhat?
Blackhawk
Because it's inexpensive, gets the job done, and is all the casual gun owner/reloader needs.
I didn't spend even $500 on all the reloading gear I have ever owned.
Huhwhat?
Blackhawk
You're right. And most people don't. The average loader getting sucked into multiple thousands of dollars worth of reloading equipment is sort of like the average computer user getting sucked into buying a $2700 CyberpowerPC gaming computer when they'd be just as happy with that $600 dollar HP from Costco.
The question asked by CookE was why anyone would hand prime. That was what I addressed. Some of us choose to hand prime because we don't feel like spending thousands of dollars on reloading equipment so we can load a couple hundred rounds a couple times a month.
