Vihtavuori powder N150 & N160 in 308Win ??

[The Norseman]

Back story; I'm an experienced reloader, I
bought V.V. N150 & N160, reasonably priced
now, always wanted to try them, all my
research had stagnated with not much
information, I've read all I can find.

I'm seeking advice and any experience
reloaders using these powders in 308Win
with 150gr bullets. Any advice.

Thank you in advance.

 

[kmoore]

Did you see the V V reloading data. They list the .308 with 150 gr bullets using N150. I am not sure what the N160 is used in.

 

[The Norseman]

Oh yeah, I've have studied the 2024
Vihtavuori Reloading Guide.
308Win / N150 / 150gr Horn. SST / Max 44.9grs.

Vihtavuori N150 (close to IMR4350) 308Win,
30-06Sprg

Vihtavuori N160 (close to IMR4831 / H4831SC)
Winchester Short Magnums

That's the situation there is not much shared
real life information out there.

 

[kmoore]

When I was shooting HP rifle, many used a form of V.V. powder. I did it was maybe N-135, for 5.56. Can't be sure without looking that up. Back then it was sold in 2 lb containers and more than 2 times WW 748, IMR 4350, 4895 1 lb cans and hard to find. So, I mostly used other stuff.
Can't say if it's now normal price is near other brands or not. I have seen 1lb for sale but never looked at price. I think it's still more popular in Europe vs USA.

 

[The Norseman]

I paid $34.71 each for the N150 and N160
several months ago. Seemed reasonable
to me.

The N135 you mention, according to V.V.
is for 223Rem and 222Rem. I might have
to get some.

I know the V.V. 100 series powder is a
Single Base powder which has a lower
Burn Temperature then Double Base.

Single Base powders interest me because
they don't erode a rifle barrel as fast as
Double Base.

 

[kmoore]

A quick web search showed 44 to 52 bucks a lb available, that's before shipping and haz mat fees. I say, you got some great powder at a really good price.

 

[arky65]

Back story; I'm an experienced reloader, I
bought V.V. N150 & N160, reasonably priced
now, always wanted to try them, all my
research had stagnated with not much
information, I've read all I can find.

I'm seeking advice and any experience
reloaders using these powders in 308Win
with 150gr bullets. Any advice.

Thank you in advance.

This is not exactly what you ask for. But is as close as I have.
From my .308 Win log book date 11/06/2010
I did not have a chronograph back then, so have no velocity info.

Loads derived from Lapua Manual 2nd edition dated year 2000
Powder was the same era of manufacture, I point this out as VV has changed the formulation since then to address temp sensitivity.

Bullet 155gn Berger powder N150

5 shot groups

Group one 44.5 n150 = .850" group

Group two 45.4 N150 = .623 group

Group three 46.3 N150 = .9" group

This, is the only time I used N150 in .308win with anything lighter than 167gn Scenars.

I have used it in all my other .308 win case based cartridges with excellent results,
eg .243 win, 25/08, .260Rem.

 

[The Norseman]

Thank you for your interest and reply.

Here is what I came up with;
Reloaded 5rds; 150gr SP Horn. #3031 /
Vihtavuori 150 43.9grs/ CCI #200 LR /
BHA Match case / Light Crimp /2650fps?
Heat Index for V.V. N150 is 3780 kj/kg

Recipe from V.V. site, used 150 Horn. SST
to come up with 43.9grs reduced by 1gr.
Max is 44.9grs.

 

[arky65]

"Recipe from V.V. site, used 150 Horn. SST
to come up with 43.9grs reduced by 1gr.
Max is 44.9grs."

The above is why included the caveat.

"Loads derived from Lapua Manual 2nd edition dated year 2000
Powder was the same era of manufacture, I point this out as VV has changed the formulation since then to address temp sensitivity."

Powders formulations change through the years.

Have you shot the above loaded rounds, how did they group?

Keep us posted.

 

[The Norseman]

This last week I was able to try out.
308Win reload 150gr SP Horn. #3031 /
Vihtavuori 150 43.9grs/ CCI #200 LR /
BHA Match case / Light Crimp / 2650fps?

100 yards, 85°F, no wind, Elev. 1335

The rifle is a 2012 Remington Model 7,
308Win, Black finished, Blk synthetic
stock, 20"bbl. No modifications.
All screws appropriately torqued inch
pounds.

I was not too impressed with the results,
First day shot two; about a 2” group.
Second day shot the last three; basically
a 2-1/2” group.

What I really liked; primers no where near
flat, clean burning, did not heat up barrel,
barrel a little bit noticeable warm to the
touch, and I allowed plenty of time
between shots.

My reload of IMR 4046 43.6grs appeared
more accurate. I had a reload of IMR 4895
43.4grs I thought was accurate from pass
notes but was not.

 

[Wvfarrier]

I used N-150 quite a bit before switching to Power Pro 2000MR. One thing to watch is barrel erosion. For some reason Viht powders abslutely eat barrels

 

[The Norseman]

Looking back at my notes about Barrel
Erosion;
Single Base (energy from nitrocellulose)
v.s.
Double Base (nitrocellulose enhanced with
nitroglycerin, High Energy) powders
and
the Heat Temperature Index Chart.

Using single based powders and cleaning
correctly and regularly will give you the
best barrel life.
Double based/high energy powders will
burn a barrel out quicker.
Shoot, let barrel cool down, shoot. NO rapid
firing. This also helps preserves the barrel.

VV N100 series = traditional Single Base
VV N300 series = porous Single Base
VV N500 Series = Double Base high energy

 

[The Norseman]

Shot 5rds of 44.0grs; 150gr SP Horn. #3031 /
Vihtavuori N150 44.0grs/ CCI #200 LR / BHA
Match case / Light Crimp / 2700fps?

Sighted in the 5 reloads. 55°F no wind.
108yds, Group went 1" high and left,
4" stringing upward (Rem Mdl 7 barrel?).
Not good. Primers to me appeared what
I would consider flat.

So far not impressed. N150 being close
to IMR4350, H4350, and Win StaBALL
6.5 I thought might work good. I’m going
to reduce reload to 43.0 grs.

 

[kmoore]

After firing the 168gr bullets in .308 cases both 3006 and .308 during match competition at 200/300 yds. I used the longer 165gr-168gr class of .308 bullets for testing. A 4 inch group is terrible, something(s) not right for that rifle. Changing powder weight, a grain or 2, in my testing won't change much. Way back in the early 80s, I tested hundreds of rounds for the best accuracy in a 3006 M1 NM Grand. I used LC match brass, 168 gr Serria match bullets. I had a new chromograph and hoped for a breakthrough in one load being much better than another. I changed powder, powder loads and primers. Testing was at 100 yds. Not much of a change in anything. They all shot well. The best back then was IMR 4350, CCI 200 primers. As I recall FPS was right in the 2700 range. I got lots of trigger time in but didn't learn more than what others already found worked well.
Just pointing out some massive range time and lots of testing of components didn't change much. You might get better changes if changing up bullets.

 

[The Norseman]

kmoore - I’m not understanding what
your saying, what are you trying to
convey?

I think I’m finding out Vihtavuori N150
is slow for the 150gr bullet. I will have
to try my 168grs. The reason am
using Horn. 150gr is because for what
I’m doing doesn’t require heavy bullets.

Don’t get me wrong VV N150 does work
but probably not the correct application
for what I’m doing.

Thanks

 

[krw]

Gonna be real hard to get blistering accuracy out of a Rem Mod 7. Just sayn. If just for target shooting take your load as a base, and increase load by 0.3gr. I just load up 3rds at ea incremint. When you see where your accuracy node is, then adj your powder up and down 0.1gr. Then you can adj bullet length. Remington usually has loooong freebore. You are only limited if using a magazine. When developing loads I generally use a 36x Weaver target scope. Take optical error out of equation. Once you get load developed, then put applicable scope on rifle. It will take LOTS of rounds before you shoot out factory Remington bbl. Jus my .02$

 

[kmoore]

kmoore - I'm not understanding what
your saying, what are you trying to
convey?

I think I'm finding out Vihtavuori N150
is slow for the 150gr bullet. I will have
to try my 168grs. The reason am
using Horn. 150gr is because for what
I'm doing doesn't require heavy bullets.

Don't get me wrong VV N150 does work
but probably not the correct application
for what I'm doing.

Thanks

I was thinking of just better accurate (smaller) groups. Not thinking the heavier bullets wouldn't work with that powder. KRW hit on what else I would mention. Bullet seating depth can play a BIG part in group size. The limit is as mentioned the magazine length. If single loading rounds the length can be longer. What I started doing about 20 years ago with a new rifle. after firing 50 rounds or so with proper cleaning. I will buy 1 box of factory ammo in the bullet weight/style I want to shoot. I shoot 4, 5 round groups. That way I my learning what the rifle might be capable of in accuracy. I then work up loads that can be smaller than factory ammo.
Question: Do you have a past history with that rifle as shooting better than 4 inch groups?

 

[The Norseman]

Past history with this 2012 Rem Mdl 7 308Win:

150gr SPFB Horn. #3031
18Oct14 IMR4320 45.8 (2700fps?) 7rds left
Discontinued powder. Notes say accurate.

IMR4895 43.4grs (2600?) Notes say accurate.
28Jul24 not so accurate, 100yrd 4" grp.

Jan2021 IMR4046 43.6grs (2700?) Notes say accurate.
10rds left.

4Aug24 Vihtavuori N150 43.9 (2700?)
25Oct24 Not so accurate, 100yrd 4” grp.

I found an unopened box of Hornady 165grs
SPBT Interlock #3045. I’m going to do 5rds.

Also I have 20rd box of factory Federal Match
308Win the kids gave me. I’ll try these too.

I’m going to recheck torque on all screws also,
you just never know since I’ve been shooting
this Rifle a lot.

 

[arky65]

"I'm going to recheck torque on all screws also,
you just never know since I've been shooting
this Rifle a lot."


I'll share an experience I just went through with my go-to deer rifle as it pertains to optics mounts and screws.
The rifle was shooting nice tight .75" groups, for what ever reasons, a couple few years ago I changed scopes. I, needed to change bases and rings as the objective is larger on the new scope. Had it shooting same groups real quick. Fast-forward a year or so, the groups opened up. So I checked by hand and the optics seemed tight no wiggle, no movement. I did not suspect anything with bases and rings. I went through all kinds of cleaning and mechanical deciphering to no avail.
Decided to myself must be the scope. So since I had several backup scopes lying around, I changed scopes. When I took the top ring halves off, there was slight movement on the front bottom ring half. The screw that held the rings on to the picatinny base was loose. I had missed putting adhesive on it.
My point, as long-winded as it is, yes recheck torque on all the screws. If I had done this first would have saved me a lot of aggravation, primers, powder and bullets.

What a hobby

 

[The Norseman]

Update on checking all screws.

Checked torque on all screws
Scope Rings 20 in-lbs, Scope Base 25 in-lbs
Stock screw 25 in-lbs, Trigger guard screw
snug.

Nothing loose. Good to check them.

 

[krw]

I love Varget in a 308. I hav shot 1000's of Lapua brass, CCI BR2 primer, 43.3 gr Varget, SMK’s 175gr, loaded 2.800. A great load in most 308's!!

 

[The Norseman]

I looked at my notes again.
Varget was not good for me until I tried again;
17Jan21 150gr SPFB Horn. #3031 / Hodgdon Varget 42.6grs / CCI #200 LR / BHA Match case / Lee FCD Light
Crimp / 2600fps?
Right out of Hornady Handbook.

I believe this turned out to be accurate
for me though I didn’t take note. I do
remember something to the effect
“finally”.

I might try this again

 

[krw]

Try 5 weight sorted Lapua brass and some matchgrade bullets. They will help

 

[The Norseman]

The Stalking Directory. It is a U.K. territory
hunting site, I guess they do a lot of stalking
their game there.

While searching for Vihtavuori powder
information, I ran into the above site.
Makes sense now in finding foreign powder
information.

It appears to be a very informative place.
I have gotten several ideas from it now.

Check it out you might like it.

 

[The Norseman]

A well over due update. I took advice from
replies above and tried to them.

30May25 Fri. The Rem 7 308. I sighted in 3
of 5 rds. 165gr SPBT Horn. #3045/
Vihtavuori N150 44.1grs/CCI #200 LR / BHA
Match case.
At 100 yards printed about a 2" group, on
center. Nice comfortable shooting, primers
not flat, slight round radius corner.

9Aug25 Sat. 1730 The Rem 7 308. 2 shots.
Sighted in the two remaining, SPBT
Horn. #3045/V.V. N150 44.1grs.
To my amazement the two shots almost
went in same hole, in center of bullseye.
With my Athlon Rangecraft Chronograph
the two shots averaged 2626fps.
80°F 75%H sunny elev. 1335, just a slight
breeze out of west, I was shooting west to
east.

After my way of "Breaking in the Barrel", I
have not cleaned the barrel and just left it
dirty after each session. I am hoping that
is contributing to the accuracy.

The 165gr SPBT Horn. #3045 definitely
appears to be working better than the 150gr
SP Horn. #3031.

My reload data came from the 2016 10th
Edition Hornady Handbook of Cartridge
Reloading, 308 Winchester, p.478.

Thanks for reading my update.

 

[kmoore]

A well over due update. I took advice from
replies above and tried to them.

30May25 Fri. The Rem 7 308. I sighted in 3
of 5 rds. 165gr SPBT Horn. #3045/
Vihtavuori N150 44.1grs/CCI #200 LR / BHA
Match case.
At 100 yards printed about a 2" group, on
center. Nice comfortable shooting, primers
not flat, slight round radius corner.

9Aug25 Sat. 1730 The Rem 7 308. 2 shots.
Sighted in the two remaining, SPBT
Horn. #3045/V.V. N150 44.1grs.
To my amazement the two shots almost
went in same hole, in center of bullseye.
With my Athlon Rangecraft Chronograph
the two shots averaged 2626fps.
80°F 75%H sunny elev. 1335, just a slight
breeze out of west, I was shooting west to
east.

After my way of "Breaking in the Barrel", I
have not cleaned the barrel and just left it
dirty after each session. I am hoping that
is contributing to the accuracy.

The 165gr SPBT Horn. #3045 definitely
appears to be working better than the 150gr
SP Horn. #3031.

My reload data came from the 2016 10th
Edition Hornady Handbook of Cartridge
Reloading, 308 Winchester, p.478.

Thanks for reading my update.

Shoot those factory match rounds and compare them to reloads. I like to shoot several groups before coming to an exact end of picking a load just to help weed out shooter error.