The Centrifugal Machine Gun

[GunnyGene]

Never heard of this invention, but quite interesting. Several different designs and patents going back to the mid 1800's.

Excerpt:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/08/centrifugal-machine-guns/

What the hell is a centrifugal machine gun? In the plainest of terms, it’s a gun that requires no propellant powder and a system which has sparked the imaginations of inventors and gun designers for over 200 years.

A couple of months ago I was browsing through the US National Archives’ online catalogue, as you do, and I came across a phenomenal piece of footage from the 1920s. It showed a man feeding what appeared to be ball bearings into an odd-looking contraption on the back of a truck. Now, I’d heard about centrifugal guns in the past but I’d never imagined I’d see contemporary archival footage of one in action. The short clip was followed by another short sequence showing the effect the odd contraption’s spherical projectiles had had on some large wooden board targets downrange.

This footage piqued my interest, why wasn’t this technology better known, who was the man loading the contraption and how did it work? I began researching centrifugal gun designs and after a good few hours spent trawling through patents I traced the idea back to an initial explosion of enthusiasm in the 1850s when a series of designs were patented in the US. The most famous of these was the Winans Steam Gun – actually designed by Charles S. Dickinson.

 

[gramps]

Now that is interesting! Quiet too I bet!
gramps

 

[GunnyGene]

Now that is interesting! Quiet too I bet!
gramps

There's a modern version prototype that was developed in 2007 called the Dread Gun. Google it for more info. Supposedly up to 120,000 ball bearings per minute @ around 5000fps, but instantly adjustable rate of fire. Was never produced as far as I could find out.

 

[powder smoke]

Holy cow that is serious fire power, probably quiet in comparison!
Interesting concept, bet it cause a few sleepless nights working things out! ps

 

[GunnyGene]

Holy cow that is serious fire power, probably quiet in comparison!
Interesting concept, bet it cause a few sleepless nights working things out! ps

Got a machine shop handy? Here's how to make your own handheld C-gun. Not as powerful as the big ones, but just speed up the rotor with gearing to increase mv. Archimedes would have understood this thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5NprqIQlqk

 

[gramps]

It would have been nice to hear commentary on what as being made instead of the obnoxious sounds they call music! What was the power source?
gramps

 

[redhawker]

It would have been nice to hear commentary on what as being made instead of the obnoxious sounds they call music! What was the power source?
gramps

Agree about the "music". I'm thinking those two tubes he mounted on each side of the thing which had wires coming out of them had batteries within.

 

[GunnyGene]

It would have been nice to hear commentary on what as being made instead of the obnoxious sounds they call music! What was the power source?
gramps

Agree about the "music". I'm thinking those two tubes he mounted on each side of the thing which had wires coming out of them had batteries within.

Agree. The tubes did contain batteries. However, everything about this thing could be modified except the rotor parts, and with a little experimenting that could be made to run much faster. A 40v Li0n battery pack could be easily contained in a traditional butt stock, or mounted similar to a magwell on a AR, for example, and the trigger mechanism and "ammunition feeding device" could likewise be modified to avoid reliance on gravity feed.

I'd consider this a breadboard prototype.

 

[Selena]

Interesting, I wonder if the great white father at the BATF calls it under his jurisdiction...

 

[Paul B]

Interesting, I wonder if the great white father at the BATF calls it under his jurisdiction...

Be a bit difficult as it really isn't a (technically) firearm.
Paul B.

 

[GunnyGene]

Interesting, I wonder if the great white father at the BATF calls it under his jurisdiction...

A little simple re-engineering to increase the exit velocity of the bearings, rearrange the motor, trigger, battery pack, "ammo feeding device" etc., and mass production, and it would be very popular I think. No flash, no bang, no recoil, no spent brass. It has some potential I think as a home defense weapon with say 00 buck pellets exiting at around 2000fps, and certainly as a range toy. It would likely upset the Brady bunch tho. :wink:

 

[caryc]

Interesting, I wonder if the great white father at the BATF calls it under his jurisdiction...

It's obvious. It's a pitching machine for tiny batters to practice. Or an improved version of the salt gun for flies.

 

[GunnyGene]

Here's the real problem with this concept, to even get up to common pistol caliber velocity. It's a tradeoff between rotor radius and it's rpm. A larger radius means you can use a lower rpm, and vice versa.

You need a rotor about 4" radius spinning about 30,000 rpm to get 1047 fps velocity.

https://www.vcalc.com/equation/?uuid=3c0ea111-42e1-11e6-9770-bc764e2038f2

 

[gramps]

Here's the real problem with this concept, to even get up to common pistol caliber velocity. It's a tradeoff between rotor radius and it's rpm. A larger radius means you can use a lower rpm, and vice versa.

You need a rotor about 4" radius spinning about 30,000 rpm to get 1047 fps velocity.

https://www.vcalc.com/equation/?uuid=3c0ea111-42e1-11e6-9770-bc764e2038f2

Ah yes, there is the rub, nevertheless an interesting concept! Surely someone will develop it further? After all the bumblebee doesn't know theoretically it can't fly. King Lear miniaturized the radio, cause he didn't know it couldn't be done.
gramps

 

[GunnyGene]

Here's the real problem with this concept, to even get up to common pistol caliber velocity. It's a tradeoff between rotor radius and it's rpm. A larger radius means you can use a lower rpm, and vice versa.

You need a rotor about 4" radius spinning about 30,000 rpm to get 1047 fps velocity.

https://www.vcalc.com/equation/?uuid=3c0ea111-42e1-11e6-9770-bc764e2038f2

Ah yes, there is the rub, nevertheless an interesting concept! Surely someone will develop it further? After all the bumblebee doesn't know theoretically it can't fly. King Lear miniaturized the radio, cause he didn't know it couldn't be done.
gramps

It gets worse. With the example above the g force at the rim of the rotor will be in excess of 100,000 g, and if not perfectly balanced will create a significant vibration that will explosively destroy the thing. Lab workers using high speed centrifuges have been seriously injured and even killed by the shrapnel when this happens. Let's say you drop a 100grain round ball into your C-gun when it's spun up and running smoothly: That 100grains suddenly weighs 1,420 Lbs! Hang on tight or run like hell!! :shock: :lol:

https://druckerdiagnostics.com/g-force-calculator/

 

[powder smoke]

Human critters and innovation no telling how far and better things can be!
Gotta love that! What happens when someone says I got an Idea! Anything! ps

 

[toysoldier]

This looks like an example of a bad idea that just keeps coming back. The problems noted above are fundamental physics, and no amount of tinkering can overcome that. It SEEMS like it ought to work, so let's try it again.

 

[caryc]

Human critters and innovation no telling how far and better things can be!
Gotta love that! What happens when someone says I got an Idea! Anything! ps

You forgot "Hold my beer" !