Suppressed 10-22

[NDAR15MAN]

A few years ago I spent 2 days at the one of the largest firearm gun trade shows.
I stopped in and spoke with one CEO of the company and the 2 other companies sales mgr's working their booths ( suppressor mfg companies ).
I ask all 3 why is that 90% of the suppressors mfg companies make and sale suppressors that fall in the 132-134 decidable reading ? And what makes your suppressor better than the next guys if they are all reducing to the same numbers ? Not one could answer my question not one. All they keep saying was theirs suppressor was built the best.
I kept challenging them. I said if 400.00 suppressor reduces the sound to the exact decidable number as the $2000.00 and the same warranty , which they are , why would I buy your 2000.00 unit and not the 500.00 unit ? More questions I ask the more FFL dealers stopped to Listen to our talk.
Each suppressor company stopped talking to me when 3 or more other dealers stopped by their tables to listen to their explanations and answer to my questions, which there was Really no explanation , they just kept talking in a circle. They all said to me why don't you move along after only 5 minutes of questions. Unbelievable. The reason , there is no difference between the 500.00 and the 2000.00 suppressor. Not one reason. Not a one. And no warranty difference. Now this was 6 years ago. Maybe things have changed. But the specs I see when the suppressor mfg companies DO list them still no difference. They Will not put it in thier specs in the gun magazine articles. But will after you buy the darn thing. There should be a law that they need to put it in writing just like the Hearing Aid companies. It's all a scam as far as I am concerned.

 

[Mobuck]

There are often other factors besides DB reduction and price. I look closely at build material and size/weight when making comparisons. Like many other products, money spent on innovation is often passed on to the consumer hence higher prices. Same with 'exotic' materials used in construction which may add production costs due to cost of material or cost of machining. Then there's the buyers who want the 'newest and bestest' and are willing to pay more for bragging rights so the manufacturers are able to sell at higher prices.
I see wide variations in muffler prices which at times seem illogical but obviously SOMEONE is willing to pay those prices since often, some of the highest priced versions are the ones listed as "SOLD OUT" or backordered.
I'll also suggest that badgering a company rep at a public venue doesn't improve your position as a buyer.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Heck,, long before suppressors became more mainstream,, when we wanted "quiet",, we'd just use a bolt action & used standard velocity .22 shorts. Basically all you'd hear is the very slight action sound, and the "whack" of the bullet striking the target.

That's been my experience, as well.

 

[NikA]

The Weatherby XXII .22lr has a single shot option. Would be a great suppressor host, just need to thread the barrel.

Reading what you posted, seems like it still automatically opens the action and ejects the casing. A Gill Gun (Springfield/Stevens 87A or similar) seems like a better (and cheaper) option, bolt is fully locked when charging handle is pushed through receiver in single shot mode.

Neither seems as fast as a properly tuned toggle action.

 

[NDAR15MAN]

Will I guess I don't understand what the newest and greats has to do with a purchase on suppressors. when DEC numbers and warranty numbers and upkeep is the same between the 500.00 unit and the 2000.00. I guess people do like throwing their hard earned money away. Not me. Comes to hard to me. You look at the gun Magazine's, absolutely no difference between them. None.

 

[kmoore]

Will I guess I don't understand what the newest and greats has to do with a purchase on suppressors. when DEC numbers and warranty numbers and upkeep is the same between the 500.00 unit and the 2000.00. I guess people do like throwing their hard earned money away. Not me. Comes to hard to me. You look at the gun Magazine's, absolutely no difference between them. None.

When I researched suppressors the costs were as you said and the sound reduction between many was really close. Some reasons why costs vary is the material used like titanium vs aluminum, also can they be taken apart and cleaned. Ones that is a no are cheaper than ones that can be disassembled and cleaned at home. The material the baffles are made from also will change the cost. Even how they attach to the barrel might change the price. Some don't thread on. I also found that some are made for slow fire or precision shooting, others rapid and or full auto.
My opinion is about any item you can buy that many companies make. Some companies claim to be the best and think their product is superior to others, so they demand higher prices. The consumer will decide if the 500 buck suppressor is as good as a 2000.

 

[Uncle Howie]

" I will try some of the CCI Quiet ammo, as recommended. "
As I said in a previous post, reducing muzzle velocity below 1000 FPS doesn't make the muffler quieter or more effective.

Maybe I misunderstand how suppressors function… or maybe I misunderstand your point.

I agree that any subsonic load should eliminate the "crack" sound of the bullet breaking the sound barrier.

My point is that ~I think~ there can be a wide difference in the perceived volume of various "subsonic" loads. For instance, I believe that CCI Subsonic is still noticeably louder than CCI Quiet. Does that make sense?

Next, it just seems to me that starting with substantially less noise to suppress (by using a quieter load), your final noise signature would also be substantially lower- even given the same suppressor.

Example: IIRC, my suppressor claims to lower dB reading by 40 dB. Assuming that's accurate in real life, it seems to me that suppressing a load producing 75 decibels (for example) will yield a much quieter result than suppressing a load producing 100 decibels (for example).

At some point there are certainly diminishing returns, but I don't think running a slower/quieter load would be entirely without benefit…

 

[Mobuck]

Uncle Howie, my response is sort of 'flexible' as in yes and no. My following comments are probably already known to those who have/use mufflers but may clarify things for others.
The advertised 'DB reduction' is generally based on 'full power' ammo. Actual sound reduction is a two step process with the first step being diverting, slowing, cooling powder gas within the can(nister). In it's most basic form, this is quite simple and can be accomplished fairly well with very basic baffle stacks. This step is made easier by using very fast powders which generate a quick burst of energy and dissipate quickly leaving less hot gas exiting the muzzle. The 22 rimfire already uses just a pinch of powder so using a faster than normal powder helps the process only minimally.
Step two is lowering bullet speed below the 'sonic crack' level which is often louder than the muzzle signature. Once muzzle velocity is lowered to speed of sound or a bit below, nothing further can be gained by lower velocity and can result in instability and loss of accuracy. Terminal performance (energy on target) also suffers.
Sub-sonic ammo takes this further by controlling both powder charge and bullet speed. Many of the newer versions utilize a heavier than normal bullet (42 to 45 grains) to help with function of semi-auto guns by increasing pressure at slower velocity AND to increase terminal performance. There's a fine line between increasing bullet weight for function and creating instability due to the very slow twist of most 22LR guns.
With this in mind, it's apparent that the suppressor will be less effective when comparing muzzle signature of open (no muffler) and muffled barrels when using sub-sonic ammo. The QUIET ammo has already pushed the window of noise reduction as far as possible so the amount of sound reduction with a suppressor will be less than with full power ammo. Yes, it will be quieter but the reduction won't be as apparent.

 

[Uncle Howie]

Thanks for the education, Mobuck. I think my head just exploded!

I'm new to supressors, and intrigued -but not obsessed- with them.

It's only been a few years that they've been allowed here, under state law.

When they were verboten, I "had" to have one. As soon as I was legally able to buy one, I started looking at purchase price, and tax stamp price… and suddenly found lots of other hobby goodies that were higher priority…

I eventually bought a suppressor, "just because." I don't really have any need for it, but it helps quiet the occasional plinking session in my rural yard. We get LOTS of walkers coming by in the summer, and I don't particularly need them in my business. As it sits now… most of them are oblivious as to just what might be causing that "pfft/tink" sound!

My neighbor doesn't care who knows what he's doing, so he rings steel w/a 9mm once or twice every week in the summer. PERFECT- draws the attention away from my rimfire foolings-around!

For stuff bigger than a .22 LR, I typically go to the Conservation Club's range, a few miles away.

 

[The Happy Kaboomer]

Just how big are your flower beds?

I'd say 38 rabbits removed is a pretty good dent in the population…

I'm just getting into suppressors, having recently purchased my first one. However, I think RoninPA makes a good point, with regard to "Hollywood quiet."

I'd also suggest that the sound of your 10-22's action going clackety-clack might be part of the "rabbit notification equation." Have you tried holding the bolt closed when firing, to prevent the action from cycling? You might be able to cycle it more quietly (albeit much more slowly) by hand, if you hold it shut when firing.

Depending on what stealth is "worth" to you… a suppressed bolt action repeater might be an option to consider, as well. In the end, you might realistically be limited to removing them one at a time…

Sounds like you've tried some different ammo, I would definitely continue down that path. It seems like CCI has a new "quiet," "subsonic," or "suppressor" .22LR loading every time I look! I hear good things about many of them. especially the segmented "Quiet" rounds.

You might need to order some of this specialty ammo… your local retailer can't stock everything…
———
Here's one that claims to produce 75% less less sound than a standard velocity load. Seems like a very good start on suppresion, right out of the gate! Be aware that it likely won't operate your 10/22's action (they tell you that, right on the label). This one is the speed of CCI's CB Caps, but with a 40-grain bullet, vs. the CB's 29 grain bullet.

Buy Quiet-22 22 LR Ammo | 40 Grain, 710 FPS | CCI Ammunition

Shopping for the Quiet-22, 22 LR, 40 Grain, Lead Round Nose, 710 fps - Learn more about the latest Quiet-22 and other hunting or shooting gear at CCI.

www.cci-ammunition.com

———
I hear great things about the segmented rounds, as well- bullet is designed to split into three inside your quarry. Rabbits aren't necessarily very hard to kill in the first place, but these types of loads are moving pretty slowly. Three wound channels might be better than one! Here's a "segmented" version of the above "Quiet" loading. This is probably the first one I'd try, balancing minimal noise with the segmented bullet. (Don't know why the link isn't posting a pretty picture…)

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/cci/quiet-22-segmented-hp/6-970.html

———
They load a slightly faster version of "CCI Quiet," designed to operate semi-autos, but it's still way subsonic.

Buy Quiet-22 Semi-Auto 22 LR Ammo | 45 Grain, 835 FPS | CCI Ammunition

Shopping for the Quiet-22 Semi-Auto, 22 LR, 45 Grain, Soft Point, 835 fps - Learn more about the latest Quiet-22 Semi-Auto and other hunting or shooting gear at CCI.

www.cci-ammunition.com

———
Now if they'd just load the segmented bullet into a "Quiet" load that would cycle the semi-auto… then we might be in business!

Who knows- maybe next year?

CCI QUIET IS NOT designed for semi autos.............It WILL NOT cycle them.

 

[kmoore]

That is just what I suspected last year and tested them. Yep the FPS is too low. Several pages of suppressed 10-22 and ammo discussed July 2024. A bolt action would be best. The CCI clean sub sonic and Remington sub sonic both are darn quiet and 10-22s function.

 

[Uncle Howie]

CCI QUIET IS NOT designed for semi autos.............It WILL NOT cycle them.

That is just what I suspected last year and tested them. Yep the FPS is too low. Several pages of suppressed 10-22 and ammo discussed July 2024. A bolt action would be best. The CCI clean sub sonic and Remington sub sonic both are darn quiet and 10-22s function.

Just for clarity… I did list links to two different "Quiet" loads.

The original "Quiet" is not intended to cycle semi-autos, is widely known not to cycle semi-autos, and has been labeled such by the manufacturer, I believe for several years.

The newer "Quiet-22 Semi-Auto," is specifically designed (and advertised) to cycle semi-autos. I'd be surprised if CCI would risk their reputation on inaccurate advertising copy re: functioning semi-autos…

Buy Quiet-22 Semi-Auto 22 LR Ammo | 45 Grain, 835 FPS | CCI Ammunition

Shopping for the Quiet-22 Semi-Auto, 22 LR, 45 Grain, Soft Point, 835 fps - Learn more about the latest Quiet-22 Semi-Auto and other hunting or shooting gear at CCI.

www.cci-ammunition.com

Have you two tried the specific "Quiet-22 Semi-Auto" load?

 

[The Happy Kaboomer]

Just for clarity… I did list links to two different "Quiet" loads.

The original "Quiet" is not intended to cycle semi-autos, is widely known not to cycle semi-autos, and has been labeled such by the manufacturer, I believe for several years.

The newer "Quiet-22 Semi-Auto," is specifically designed (and advertised) to cycle semi-autos. I'd be surprised if CCI would risk their reputation on inaccurate advertising copy re: functioning semi-autos…

Buy Quiet-22 Semi-Auto 22 LR Ammo | 45 Grain, 835 FPS | CCI Ammunition

Shopping for the Quiet-22 Semi-Auto, 22 LR, 45 Grain, Soft Point, 835 fps - Learn more about the latest Quiet-22 Semi-Auto and other hunting or shooting gear at CCI.

www.cci-ammunition.com

Have you two tried the specific "Quiet-22 Semi-Auto" load?

Have never saw it on the shelf............Only 720 FPS load which will not cycle.

 

[Mobuck]

FWIW--I've been trying some Winchester 'SubSonic 42 MAX' in 10.5" Charger barrel both open and suppressed. It's 100% functional, accurate, and quiet--only the cycling of the bolt is heard when using the muffler.

 

[Captain Slapnuts]

I have a MkIV that I attach a Dead Air MASK to. I'm pretty satisfied that it's "Hollywood quiet". Slightly louder or quieter, depending on the ammo. I'm also pretty impressed that this thing will cycle stuff like Quiet 22. Yes, there is some noise from the action, and some from the bullet strike.

 

[Mobuck]

Just hold the bolt of the MK or 22/45 closed with the thumb of the support hand. Works fine--just don't forget and do that with a centerfire.

 

[fwb124]

Here's one that claims to produce 75% less less sound than a standard velocity load. Seems like a very good start on suppresion, right out of the gate! Be aware that it likely won't operate your 10/22's action (they tell you that, right on the label). This one is the speed of CCI's CB Caps, but with a 40-grain bullet, vs. the CB's 29 grain bullet.

Buy Quiet-22 22 LR Ammo | 40 Grain, 710 FPS | CCI Ammunition

Shopping for the Quiet-22, 22 LR, 40 Grain, Lead Round Nose, 710 fps - Learn more about the latest Quiet-22 and other hunting or shooting gear at CCI.

www.cci-ammunition.com

———
I hear great things about the segmented rounds, as well- bullet is designed to split into three inside your quarry. Rabbits aren't necessarily very hard to kill in the first place, but these types of loads are moving pretty slowly. Three wound channels might be better than one! Here's a "segmented" version of the above "Quiet" loading. This is probably the first one I'd try, balancing minimal noise with the segmented bullet. (Don't know why the link isn't posting a pretty picture…)

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/cci/quiet-22-segmented-hp/6-970.html

[ snip]
———
Now if they'd just load the segmented bullet into a "Quiet" load that would cycle the semi-auto… then we might be in business!

While a bolt action or forced single shot 10/22 are probably the quietest and simplest options, for those who really want a quiet muzzle report but can live with some semi auto action noise, there's always the improved Volquartsen Firefly 2.0 bolt for the 10/22:

Firefly Bolt 2.0 | Volquartsen Firearms

volquartsen.com

Every now and then they'll offer blems for 25–30% off. The 58% weight reduction, coupled with two different springs, permits semi auto function with ammo from 710 FPS up to 1050 FPS.

 

[Mobuck]

For those who don't want to tinker with their 10-22, I suggest at least trying the newer 'suppressor' ammo with 42-45 grain bullets. Sub-sonic MV with a heavier bullet retains more energy than typical 40 grain at the lower velocity.
FWIW I have zero confidence in the capability of the 'QUIET' ammo @ 710-750 fps.