Staked Gas Key?

Ruger Nut

Single-Sixer
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Jul 11, 2004
Messages
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I bought a new Ruger AR-556. On my other AR-556 you can actually see the steel staked into the bolts. On this new AR-556 the bolts "look" staked but the steel don't actually touch the bolts. Well, if they do, you would need a magnifying glass to see it. I was thinking about staking them myself, a bit more. Opinions? Or, should I put a "witness" mark, shoot the rifle X amount of rounds, and then check it? I was also thinking about sending Ruger some pics of the staking job and get their opinion.
 
The staking of a carrier key is a controversial subject on many forums, which I find interesting because it really seems like there are better things to worry about. Not that it's okay to have the key come loose, but I have personally never seen one come lose that was properly tightened to start with, staked or not. I have read all the arguments for and against staking. I have had good luck with red Loc-Tite, but there are those that believe the carrier key and carrier get too hot for it to maintain effectiveness.
Been at this for 30 plus years and have run them staked, "Loc-Tited", and simply good old fashion "tightened screws".....have yet to witness a carrier key come loose. Maybe a better way of saying it is that I have never shot one of my AR's until they got that hot. You probably wont either.
My biggest thing about the "need to absolutely stake it" is that staked or not the screws can still move. I have had to disassemble a few that were "severely", very heavily staked {somebody had a phobia about the key falling out of their gun} and not too much more pressure on the Allen wrench spun them right out just the same as the ones I had to remove with "normal" looking stakes. Again, not much more pressure required than those not staked at all.
Bottom line, if it bothers you get a punch and hit them again...but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Given the choice, if I could only do one thing to them my one thing would be to get the correct Allen wrench and make sure they are good and tight.
I believe that staking the key was a mil-spec thing used from way back in the early days when the M-16 was shot a lot on full auto. Full auto gets then really hot, if the rifle doesn't get that severely overheated there is no need. On the other hand...if you feel like the carrier needs to go back to Ruger I suggest you find someone with a TIG welder because you are never going to be happy until it is welded.
 
msinc said:
The staking of a carrier key is a controversial subject on many forums, which I find interesting because it really seems like there are better things to worry about. Not that it's okay to have the key come loose, but I have personally never seen one come lose that was properly tightened to start with, staked or not. I have read all the arguments for and against staking. I have had good luck with red Loc-Tite, but there are those that believe the carrier key and carrier get too hot for it to maintain effectiveness.
Been at this for 30 plus years and have run them staked, "Loc-Tited", and simply good old fashion "tightened screws".....have yet to witness a carrier key come loose. Maybe a better way of saying it is that I have never shot one of my AR's until they got that hot. You probably wont either.
My biggest thing about the "need to absolutely stake it" is that staked or not the screws can still move. I have had to disassemble a few that were "severely", very heavily staked {somebody had a phobia about the key falling out of their gun} and not too much more pressure on the Allen wrench spun them right out just the same as the ones I had to remove with "normal" looking stakes. Again, not much more pressure required than those not staked at all.
Bottom line, if it bothers you get a punch and hit them again...but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Given the choice, if I could only do one thing to them my one thing would be to get the correct Allen wrench and make sure they are good and tight.
I believe that staking the key was a mil-spec thing used from way back in the early days when the M-16 was shot a lot on full auto. Full auto gets then really hot, if the rifle doesn't get that severely overheated there is no need. On the other hand...if you feel like the carrier needs to go back to Ruger I suggest you find someone with a TIG welder because you are never going to be happy until it is welded.
MSINC, thank you for that very detailed explanation. :)
I am a retired pipe fitter/welder and DO have a TIG machine/set up. (I would NEVER do that)
I respect your vast knowledge for the simple fact that you have been around the AR for many years. When I was in the Army we would check our gas key to see if it were tight/loose as part of our PM. That was as far as it went.
Have you ever heard of STAGE 8 bolts? http://www.stage8.com/
When I used to build engines, esp. for racing, I would use STAGE 8 header bolts. If anyone knows about header bolts they know how they like to back out. With STAGE 8 in there, they NEVER backed out and that meant NO MORE LEAKS! Too bad there were not some kind of set up for the gas key bolts as STAGE 8.
But, I know what you mean when you say there are "better" things to worry about. :)
 
The stage 8 bolts are interesting...I have seen similar set ups, but that looks like the best idea yet. Before I went to work for the govt. I was an automotive machinist for 16 years, so I am familiar with bolts backing out when you don't want them too. Wish we would have had those back then!!!
I have seen several carrier keys TIG welded on over the years and have met a few guys that believe it has to be done to shoot the gun...reminds me of an adjustable gas block...not necessary at all, not a bad thing either. But some people believe it is a must have for the gun to work. I quit trying to tell people a long time ago if they don't want to hear it...now I just take the money and run. Good luck with your AR.
 
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