split cases/case head seperation

[Olsherm]

Someone eluded to my question about split cases that case head seperation was very dangerous. My question is: Why would case head seperation be any more dangerous than a split case if you were using moderate to lite loads? I can see where a very heavy load might be pretty dangerous.Just curious as I have had a few split cases but not had a case head seperation before. Thanks

 

[J Miller]

Well, generally when the case head separates it allows a lot of gas to blow back into the action all at once. Depending on how the gun is vented or not the shooter can get a a face full.
I've had a few full head separations in old war time British No4 Mk1s and they are vented quite well.
No problems with gas in the face, but when you open the action you have the head in the extractor and the case body in the chamber.
If you don't realize this you can make a really nice jam up.

Joe

 

[Olsherm]

Sorry J Miller I should have been more specific. I was thinking of revolvers when I posted. But thanks for the info.I can see where a lot of gas might get back into the recoil shield area and maybe in the face. Also maybe some brass.

 

[J Miller]

Olsherm,

Revolvers; well I've had lots of cases split full length and there was some gas escaping to the rear, but it was deflected to the sides.

I cannot remember ever having a case head separation in a revolver, myself. It could happen with a defective or many times reloaded case and in that situation the escaping gasses would be deflected to the sides as well.

As a matter of fact I remember the story Elmer Keith told when an old worn balloon head case head blew off with a charge of black powder and a heavy bullet. The escaping gasses blew the loading gate off his Colt SAA and sliced open his finger.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what would happen.

Joe

 

[Bucks Owin]

Olsherm,



I cannot remember ever having a case head separation in a revolver, myself. It could happen with a defective or many times reloaded case.....


Joe

More precisely, many times resized cases...:wink:

That is exactly why I practice "neck sizing" .45LC cases that get used for Linebaugh style loads in my BH's oversize chambers. The repeated resizing of the area that bulges ahead of the rim would cause case failure eventually if FL sized enough times. Depending on how "hot" the loading, I've picked 3-5 times as enough "abuse" of a new or once fired case in that type of use (25-30K) before they get rerouted to duty in more mundane loads....

 

[DeletedMember275]

It's a shame that the factories can't cut .45 Colt chambers closer to the diameter of the cartridge case, like they do for .454 Casull and .460 S&W revolvers.

I see where Redding has introduced 'dual ring' carbide sizing dies, that size the case mouth tighter than the body, to alleviate this problem. Not sure how many they'll sell at that price though...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=943821

 

[Bucks Owin]

It's a shame that the factories can't cut .45 Colt chambers closer to the diameter of the cartridge case, like they do for .454 Casull and .460 S&W revolvers.

I see where Redding has introduced 'dual ring' carbide sizing dies, that size the case mouth tighter than the body, to alleviate this problem. Not sure how many they'll sell at that price though...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=943821

.45 chambers/throats are a puzzlement for sure Enigma... :?

I expect the Redding die makes better looking ammo than my "tapered torpedos".. :lol:

 

[J Miller]

I have hand loaded the .45 Colt for over 35 years. I full size 100% of my cases since I quit using the old Lee Loader and to date, NOT ONE has failed due to being full sized. As a matter of fact I'm still using and reloading many hundreds of cases that I bought way back when I first started shooting the .45 Colt.
Claiming that full sizing these cases cause failure is just scare tactics.

I do occasionally use my old steel sizing die which does not full size the case towards the head as much, but they are still full sized.

Regards the new Redding dual carbide ring die, I'm saving up my money to buy one. I have been thinking of such a die for years, they just just did it.
We'll see how it works, one way or the other.

Joe

 

[Bucks Owin]

I have hand loaded the .45 Colt for over 35 years. I full size 100% of my cases since I quit using the old Lee Loader and to date, NOT ONE has failed due to being full sized. As a matter of fact I'm still using and reloading many hundreds of cases that I bought way back when I first started shooting the .45 Colt.
Claiming that full sizing these cases cause failure is just scare tactics.

Joe

Scare tactics? :? Pardon me, but you load up a .45LC to 30K and fire it in a oversize chamber and see the bulge that results ahead of the rim! Resize that over and over and see if you eventually get a failure! I prefer not to! My fired cases measure .486"+ ahead of the rim after stiff loads so I'd say my chambers are "somewhat" oversize... :? Linebaugh chambers are cut to .480", too bad .45 Rugers aren't....

Maybe since I'm just a rookie at handloading, (only 45 yrs at it) you'll take John Linebaugh's words as fact, not "scare tactics"...

___________________________

Linebaugh: The Myth of The "Weak" .45 Colt Case

"There has been so much written about the "weak" .45 Colt case. This probably started when The Grand Old Man of the Shooting game, Elmer Keith made this statement in his excellent book "Sixguns." "While shooting a 300 gr 45/90 rifle bullet in my .45 Colt SAA with 35 grains of black. Finally a weak .45 Colt case head blew off with this load. The gas blew the loading gate off the gun breaking its shank and cutting through the flesh of my trigger finger. From this experience I decided the bullet was a bit heavy for the thin cases and thin chamber walls of the cylinders. I cut one band and groove from the mould leaving it to cast a 260 gr flat point bullet. This worked very well with 40 grains of black. It was a very good game killer and flatter in trajectory curve than the 300 grain slug with 35 grains of black" ( Sixguns by Keith page 129)

"weak". The only thing weak is their limited research on the subject. The cartridge case in any firearm is simply a gasket to seal the hot gases away from the shooter and the firearm. Yes, it's critical that this component be of best quality and design. But overall the firearm itself contains the pressure. The reason the .45 Colt case bulges is the chambers in NEARLY ALL modern .45 Colts are grossly oversize. The case simply has to stretch beyond its elastic limit to reach the support of the chambers of the firearm. The modern .45 Colt case measures .476 diameter at the case head web area. Most modern chambers run from .486 upwards to .490. This means the new case has to expand from .010 to .014 to seal the chamber and be supported by the firearm. It is then resized and the process repeated till the case fails. And fail it will, and more than likely prematurely due to overworking."

____________________________________

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I believe there are folks out there that still use 'balloon-head' cases and they are taking a considerable risk if they load 'hot'. I sure wouldn't want a case head separation with most of the explosive force of a cartridge coming out of the back of a gun. I don't shoot 45 colt but after about 5 or 6 hot loads I retire my other cases to the more medium/normal routine.

I have seen tests of rifle cartridges where they started having some catastrophic failures after 10 or so re-loadings. Of course rifles should be better at handling case failure than a revolver. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[Bucks Owin]

I believe there are folks out there that still use 'balloon-head' cases and they are taking a considerable risk if they load 'hot'.
...Jimbo

Yeah? Ask a few fellows who WANT to find/shoot balloon head cases...

(The only ones that'll accept 40 grs of BP apparently...)

 

[xtpshooter]

I had a case head separation on a 44 magnum round in a Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter. I did not notice anything unusual until I went to remove the brass and only the case head fell out. The rest of the case came out easily. Three more rounds of the six loaded split the case. I disassembled the entire lot of ammo and disposed of the brass. The ammo had been loaded and in storage for about 6 years.

 

[Olsherm]

I have been using 45 colt brass that I have had for years. Loaded about 15 + times and I am still using them. But, only with lite target loads. I don't need any "hand grenades".However,i have had a couple of cases to split up the sides.