Ruger 57 for black bear defense?

[Moparfreak]

I'm thinking of when we go for hikes in the Cumberland or Smokey Mountains of Tn. or the occasional jaunt up into the Colo. Rockies. I have a Security Six in (4inch barrel) 357 Mag, with semi wad cutters in 357 mag. Pretty good kick, six rounds and in a bad episode (with a probable Black Bear), maybe inaccurate? What about the Ruger 57? Obviously you would want head shots if possible. That round should pierce a bears skull, plus 20 rounds and decent recoil might be more advantageous? Thoughts?

 

[dweis]

I have been hiking in PA black bear country for over 50 years. I have encountered many black bears without incident. I have experienced 2 defensive charges from females with cubs. A bit of bear spray ended those capers. Te scary incident was a big male who made an aggressive charge. First shot of bear spray turned him away, but he came back. Second shot of bear spray drove him off. He did not come back. Bear spray is better than a gun, which should be the alternative if the spray does nor end the incident.

I have studied a great deal about black bear encounters over the decades. First advice is do not shoot for the head of a charging bear. Very thick skull can cause ricochet and failure to stop. Bears run at 35 mph. They can close 50 feet in a couple seconds even with a bad headache. Bear spray repels them or slows them down. Move to side for a shot to the side of the head or even better to the torso right behind the shoulder. That’s where the hear and lungs are.

In the woods I carry Underwood Extreme Penetrator +PP 9mm. Do not use JHP. Penetration is the key. A 357 with that ammo ought to be ok for a black bear. In CO you might encounter black or brown bears. If I were going there I would want a 45 magnum. But I am not going there. In CO you also have to be aware of cougars.

Learn about the difference between a defensive and aggressive charge. The bear will actually let you know whic. A defensive charge come with a lot of growling, standing, and showing teeth and claws. An aggressive charge the bear get closer to the ground, does not stand in 2 legs, does not growl, has ears pinned back and eyes always on you. It’s damn scary. Read up,on bear spray — it’s your best first line of defense. Good luck.

Added later. Forgot two things 1) if you have to shoot the bear keet firing until it drops and be prepared in case it gets back up. The problem with a revolver against a bear is capacity. The the Adrenalin rush you will not be achieving range shooting accuracy. Today when I go into bear country I carry 15+1 with 15 more in an OWB mag pouch.

 

[noahmercy]

No way I'd trust any 22 caliber for defense against a bear. 357 magnum is the absolute minimum I'd consider, and bigger is better. Penetration is what is called for, and a 158-180 grain LBT-style cast bullet in the 357 will drill plenty deep and do a lot of damage on the way through. Buffalo Bore makes some good stuff if you don't handload, but if you do roll your own, Montana Bullet Works sells a couple great designs for the application.

 

[Mobuck]

Not for me. I spent an entire summer walking black bear country and felt marginally equipped with a SBH 44 mag. I would have felt more secure with a 12 ga but that might upset 'visitors'.
I don't think anyone would recommend the 5.7 for this purpose.

 

[rammerjammer]

Nope, thats 44 Mag time, 357 Mag at least.

 

[RSIno1]

This seems logical -

 

[3manfan]

Are you out of your mind? You want to piss it off to make sure that it kills you, or what?
I've owned a PS90 for 12 years & a Five Seven pistol for 9 years.
The 5.7X28 round is basically slightly more effective than a .22 Magnum.
Even a .357 is under powered for bear. You're expecting to make effective head shots on a bear that's intent on doing you harm?
Yeah, good luck with THAT.
Better get yourself a .45-70.

 

[Biggfoot44]

4 inch Security Six , and " maybe inaccurate " ?!? Those are very accurate guns , .more so than 5.7's .Perhaps you are saying you need more practice with a semi serious handgun ? In which case , there's your solution , get some coaching and practice with your rapid- ish DA shooting .

That combo is already on the mild side for your intended purpose .

We can debate endlessly on .357 vs .45 vs .44 vs .41 vs 10mm . But the 5.7 is unquestionably a major leap in the wrong direction . ( My usual comparison is 5.7 from a pistol is equivalent to .22WMR from rifle ) .

 

[TestEngineer]

I've lived in Colorado my entire life (60 years). Black bears are not typically aggressive like other species of bear. Most attacks occur when you surprise them at close range. The attacks are defensive in nature.

Your first line of defense in bear country should be to make noise while you hike. Add a fishing bell or two to your pack or hat brim. The bear will usually move off to a distance it feels comfortable with before you ever arrive.

Bear spray is an excellent backup plan. A firearm should always be the last resort. .357 or bigger would be my recommendation. Also, a good belt knife is recommended in cougar country. If one has the inclination to take you out, it will be on top of you before you ever know there's one around. I've only seen a couple in my life, but I know there's been dozens that have seen me.

 

[harley08]

Are you out of your mind? You want to piss it off to make sure that it kills you, or what?
I've owned a PS90 for 12 years & a Five Seven pistol for 9 years.
The 5.7X28 round is basically slightly more effective than a .22 Magnum.
Even a .357 is under powered for bear. You're expecting to make effective head shots on a bear that's intent on doing you harm?
Yeah, good luck with THAT.
Better get yourself a .45-70.

Or a .458 Socom semi auto

 

[Mobuck]

"I've lived in Colorado my entire life (60 years). Black bears are not typically aggressive like other species of bear. Most attacks occur when you surprise them at close range. The attacks are defensive in nature."
Unfortunately, black bears are more likely to make 'predatory' attacks than any other bear species except polar bears. The place where I worked was in a 'travel path' for bears coming out of high country. I patrolled our perimeter each morning checking for tracks entering the property via a dirt trail along the fence line. Never had an issue there but was second on the scene behind the nuisance wildlife control officer at the scene of a bear entering a public campground. Shots had been fired and the officer left me to secure the scene while he went out looking for the bear. I didn't see the bear and neither did the officer. Shots must have missed (as the shooter claimed was his intention) and no one was hurt but supper on the grill was a bit worse for the experience.
A week later, soon after passing a couple of bikers and their dogs I noticed VERY FRESH bear tracks on the hiking trail I was following. I pointed this out to the bikers who immediately decided to try a different trail. This was less than a mile from the campground incident so this bear may have the same one. Hanging around close to human activities(several houses and a state campground in the immediate area) and walking a well used hiking/biking trail in open timber late morning/mid-day sort of seems like a problem in progress.

 

[needsmostuff]

Ruger 57 for bear?
You sir are a victim of 5.7x28 hype.
If bears are truly an issue where you go get a real gun ,,,,,, or maybe two.

 

[David Lee Valdina]

If you carry the .357, consider loading 157 gr. lead semi-wadcutter ammo. Decent velocity, good penetration and widely available. I would stick with the solids and not the hollow point. And do carry a speed loader as well.

 

[planetcat]

You need the first shot to count. Unlikely you’d get more than 2-3 shots off on a charging bear. I wouldn’t do it unless I had nothing else and no pepper spray. Plus, it’s not fair to the animal to have to shoot it more times than necessary with an under powered cartridge.

 

[Moparfreak]

If you carry the .357, consider loading 157 gr. lead semi-wadcutter ammo. Decent velocity, good penetration and widely available. I would stick with the solids and not the hollow point. And do carry a speed loader as well.

Here's what I have currently. Not Hard Cast...

 

[beentheredone]

I happen to own an ideal bear-protection gun -- KelTec KS7, well-stocked with slugs. But in many years of wandering woods chock-full of black bears I never needed even the S&W Kit Gun I packed.

If you REALLY need to shoot, nothing you can carry will be big enough to suit you ...

 

[pyth0n]

I used to hear if you carried a revolver, load all six. Five for the bear & one for you. These days it'd be save the last round for yourself, regardless of what you carry.
When owning a gun is made illegal by government, & being made a criminal, I'll then be allowed to use a 40 mm grenade launcher for protection against bears.

 

[Diabloman]

I have a 41 mag. & a 44 Spl. works good on large predators. fwiw

 

[protoolman]

Elmer Keith pointed out that a lead 44 or 45 caliber bullets at 900 fps would get full penetration in an elk side to side and would far out penetrate a higher velocity 30-06 with a lighter bullet. Since the invention of the .45 colt the only improvement in bear guns reasonably possible seems to be switching to heavy rifles or shotguns. I do understand black bears respond better to bearspray than grizzlies so that would be my first line of defense. Practice making 2 fast accurate shots because that's all you might get. Probably won't get a chance to shoot at all if you opt for spray.load your .357 with heavy .357 180 gr lead bullets if that's the gun you have.

 

[Jeepnik]

I used to hear if you carried a revolver, load all six. Five for the bear & one for you. These days it'd be save the last round for yourself, regardless of what you carry.
When owning a gun is made illegal by government, & being made a criminal, I'll then be allowed to use a 40 mm grenade launcher for protection against bears.

It’s been a long time, someone remind me of the distance of travel for a 40 mm grenade to arm.

 

[pyth0n]

It’s been a long time, someone remind me of the distance of travel for a 40 mm grenade to arm.

Not a clue. It was meant to be light hearted not serious.

 

[RC44Mag]

It’s been a long time, someone remind me of the distance of travel for a 40 mm grenade to arm.

Ask the dope Sen. John Kerry he can answer that for you. Lol

 

[vlavalle]

I have been hiking in PA black bear country for over 50 years. I have encountered many black bears without incident. I have experienced 2 defensive charges from females with cubs. A bit of bear spray ended those capers. Te scary incident was a big male who made an aggressive charge. First shot of bear spray turned him away, but he came back. Second shot of bear spray drove him off. He did not come back. Bear spray is better than a gun, which should be the alternative if the spray does nor end the incident.

I have studied a great deal about black bear encounters over the decades. First advice is do not shoot for the head of a charging bear. Very thick skull can cause ricochet and failure to stop. Bears run at 35 mph. They can close 50 feet in a couple seconds even with a bad headache. Bear spray repels them or slows them down. Move to side for a shot to the side of the head or even better to the torso right behind the shoulder. That’s where the hear and lungs are.

In the woods I carry Underwood Extreme Penetrator +PP 9mm. Do not use JHP. Penetration is the key. A 357 with that ammo ought to be ok for a black bear. In CO you might encounter black or brown bears. If I were going there I would want a 45 magnum. But I am not going there. In CO you also have to be aware of cougars.

Learn about the difference between a defensive and aggressive charge. The bear will actually let you know whic. A defensive charge come with a lot of growling, standing, and showing teeth and claws. An aggressive charge the bear get closer to the ground, does not stand in 2 legs, does not growl, has ears pinned back and eyes always on you. It’s damn scary. Read up,on bear spray — it’s your best first line of defense. Good luck.

Added later. Forgot two things 1) if you have to shoot the bear keet firing until it drops and be prepared in case it gets back up. The problem with a revolver against a bear is capacity. The the Adrenalin rush you will not be achieving range shooting accuracy. Today when I go into bear country I carry 15+1 with 15 more in an OWB mag pouch.

I am an owner of a Ruger .45 Colt convertible (also can shoot .45 ACP with a cylinder swap) Flattop, and the power of the .45 LC ammo varies greatly, as do most calibers (unlike the 9mm). But you mentioned a 45 Magnum, which I do not believe exists. Did you mean a .44 Magnum?

The high end (most powerful) .45 LC ammo is a bit weaker than the high end .44 Mag ammo. But it is still very powerful! I normally shoot with one hand, arm extended all the way, but when I shoot the hottest .45 lc load that I can in my Ruger, I have to use two hands - it is that powerful. But since my revolver is a 'flattop', with the upper bar across the top of the cylinder being a bit thinner, I am not suppose to shoot the most powerful .45 LC ammo, which is another 150 ft. lbs. more powerful, which must be utterly awesome! The .45 LC power max's out at 1,344 ft. lbs., and the .44 magnum max's out at 1,533. Both of these are Buffalo Bore ammo.

But I do really like your idea of using bear spray on black bears. On another note, the only place in the continental US that brown bears (Grizzlies) live is only in Yellowstone Park.

 

[BearBiologist]

I have been hiking in PA black bear country for over 50 years. I have encountered many black bears without incident. I have experienced 2 defensive charges from females with cubs. A bit of bear spray ended those capers. Te scary incident was a big male who made an aggressive charge. First shot of bear spray turned him away, but he came back. Second shot of bear spray drove him off. He did not come back. Bear spray is better than a gun, which should be the alternative if the spray does nor end the incident.

I have studied a great deal about black bear encounters over the decades. First advice is do not shoot for the head of a charging bear. Very thick skull can cause ricochet and failure to stop. Bears run at 35 mph. They can close 50 feet in a couple seconds even with a bad headache. Bear spray repels them or slows them down. Move to side for a shot to the side of the head or even better to the torso right behind the shoulder. That’s where the hear and lungs are.

In the woods I carry Underwood Extreme Penetrator +PP 9mm. Do not use JHP. Penetration is the key. A 357 with that ammo ought to be ok for a black bear. In CO you might encounter black or brown bears. If I were going there I would want a 45 magnum. But I am not going there. In CO you also have to be aware of cougars.

Learn about the difference between a defensive and aggressive charge. The bear will actually let you know whic. A defensive charge come with a lot of growling, standing, and showing teeth and claws. An aggressive charge the bear get closer to the ground, does not stand in 2 legs, does not growl, has ears pinned back and eyes always on you. It’s damn scary. Read up,on bear spray — it’s your best first line of defense. Good luck.

Added later. Forgot two things 1) if you have to shoot the bear keet firing until it drops and be prepared in case it gets back up. The problem with a revolver against a bear is capacity. The the Adrenalin rush you will not be achieving range shooting accuracy. Today when I go into bear country I carry 15+1 with 15 more in an OWB mag pouch.

As a retired Wildlife Biologist with an MS in black bear behavior and 21+ years in the PNW, I concur on the use of bear spray. I guided on wild hogs in Central California while in grad school and I have seen wild pig skulls turn a 44 Magnum hollow point at close range. I have also seen 44 mag slugs flatten on a pig's skull or on the gristle plate.

Here in grizzly country, I carry an OM Blackhawk in 45 Colt with hardcast lead slugs loaded to about 1200-1300 fps or a Glock 20 10mm with Underwood 200 or 220 gr hardcast.

 

[vlavalle]

As a retired Wildlife Biologist with an MS in black bear behavior and 21+ years in the PNW, I concur on the use of bear spray. I guided on wild hogs in Central California while in grad school and I have seen wild pig skulls turn a 44 Magnum hollow point at close range. I have also seen 44 mag slugs flatten on a pig's skull or on the gristle plate.

Here in grizzly country, I carry an OM Blackhawk in 45 Colt with hardcast lead slugs loaded to about 1200-1300 fps or a Glock 20 10mm with Underwood 200 or 220 gr hardcast.

One should be careful in 'making' claims about what some ammo did or didn't do. Most Ammo (not the 9mm) varies greatly inits power, and this goes for both the .45 LC and .44 Magnum ammo. The point I am making here is that your 'discovery' of these ammo calibers in animals could have depended entirely on what the cartridge was, and not just the caliber. Both the .44 Mag and the .45 LC ammo vary greatly. The .44 Mag goes from about 325 ft. Lbs. all the way up to 1,550 ft. lbs. The .45 LC goes from a low 'cowboy' load (intentionally very low power for shows, etc) of 250 ft. lbs., all the way up to 1,344 ft. lbs. of ME.

The other comment I would like to make here is that the 10mm doesn't hold a candle to either of these two calibers, and in fact, it is even weaker than the mighty .357 Mag, which can go up to 900 ft. lbs. of ME, whereas the 10mm max's out at 783 ft. lb. So, I wouldn't rely on using your 10mm for bears! Of course, all of this ballistics info is for already manufactured ammo.

On a side note, with one or two very specific exceptions, revolvers are much more power than just about all semi-auto pistols. If you want a powerful handgun, you should get a revolver. I have a ballistics file you are welcome to, and it shows the ballistics for 35 handgun calibers, and 25 rifle ones. It also shows where you can buy that ammo online, and at what price. It has over 3,000 entries.

 

[sj6g]

Just to clarify an earlier post, CO resident/backcountry hunter/guy with a biology degree here: the northern Wind River Range in NW WY is the closest spot you'll find a Brown Bear to Colorado (that isn't a zoo). Some of the Black Bears here are brown, but they're certainly not grizzly bears.

Wolves are back in North/Central CO already. Lions are common whether you see them or not, nuisance black bears are becoming a bigger problem as we can't hunt them in spring and people encroach on more and more of their habitat (and in greater numbers), moose chase people on ski slopes regularly. I would say good bear practices are a must, bear spray is a great idea, and enough gun for any of those critters is a good idea. I would not choose a 5.7 for animal defense.

At any rate, this sounds like an excellent excuse to get a 500JRH 4" Redhawk conversion built up.

 

[BearBiologist]

One should be careful in 'making' claims about what some ammo did or didn't do. Most Ammo (not the 9mm) varies greatly inits power, and this goes for both the .45 LC and .44 Magnum ammo. The point I am making here is that your 'discovery' of these ammo calibers in animals could have depended entirely on what the cartridge was, and not just the caliber. Both the .44 Mag and the .45 LC ammo vary greatly. The .44 Mag goes from about 325 ft. Lbs. all the way up to 1,550 ft. lbs. The .45 LC goes from a low 'cowboy' load (intentionally very low power for shows, etc) of 250 ft. lbs., all the way up to 1,344 ft. lbs. of ME.

The other comment I would like to make here is that the 10mm doesn't hold a candle to either of these two calibers, and in fact, it is even weaker than the mighty .357 Mag, which can go up to 900 ft. lbs. of ME, whereas the 10mm max's out at 783 ft. lb. So, I wouldn't rely on using your 10mm for bears! Of course, all of this ballistics info is for already manufactured ammo.

On a side note, with one or two very specific exceptions, revolvers are much more power than just about all semi-auto pistols. If you want a powerful handgun, you should get a revolver. I have a ballistics file you are welcome to, and it shows the ballistics for 35 handgun calibers, and 25 rifle ones. It also shows where you can buy that ammo online, and at what price. It has over 3,000 entries.

I gave the velocities of my 45 Colt loads above. I also carried a Ruger 41 mag with hardcast handloads. It appeared to give better penetration than did the 44 mag. As I mentioned, the loads were all "hot" handloads. The 44 mag loads were factory 240 gr hollow points. My 10mm loads have an MV of 1200 fps and are 220 gr. Many factors can affect ballistics tables, including type of gun (test barrels?), length, and "optimistic" reporting.

As a biologist, one thing you learn is to view "paper stats" with skepticism. What counts is "real world" experience! We/I shot a large sow (~275lbs). I shot six 357 180 gr hard cast into a 3" group just behind her ear (4" GP100). She turned to charge me and my buddy shot her from 5 feet with my 300 mag and THEN she dropped! I have been (bluff) charged by one bear and seriously charged by several wild pigs of both sexes and know how little time you have to react. That is why I prefer spray over bullets. (I was certified to use and to certify others in the use of bear spray and certified to use firearms)

You may be interested to know that the Danish Sirius Dogsled Patrols in Greenland go out for weeks, if not months, at a time and face polar bears very frequently, as well as muskox. The CHOSE the Glock 20 for protection against these bears (LARGEST species) that consider man natural prey!

 

[BearBiologist]

Quote: "On another note, the only place in the continental US that brown bears (Grizzlies) live is only in Yellowstone Park".

Actually, Idaho (esp. Bob Marshall Wilderness), NE Washington State, northern Cascades in WA (very small population). I have seen grizzly tracks and droppings near Thermopolis & Ten Sleeps, WY (eastern part) while hunting mule deer. Many exist in the Rockies near to Yellowstone, as well.

 

[sj6g]

I believe there are over 300 in Glacier NP alone now. They definitely exist outside of Yellowstone and the GYE.

 

[vlavalle]

Just to clarify an earlier post, CO resident/backcountry hunter/guy with a biology degree here: the northern Wind River Range in NW WY is the closest spot you'll find a Brown Bear to Colorado (that isn't a zoo). Some of the Black Bears here are brown, but they're certainly not grizzly bears.

Wolves are back in North/Central CO already. Lions are common whether you see them or not, nuisance black bears are becoming a bigger problem as we can't hunt them in spring and people encroach on more and more of their habitat (and in greater numbers), moose chase people on ski slopes regularly. I would say good bear practices are a must, bear spray is a great idea, and enough gun for any of those critters is a good idea. I would not choose a 5.7 for animal defense.

At any rate, this sounds like an excellent excuse to get a 500JRH 4" Redhawk conversion built up.

Yes, for Grizzlies! And what is a 5.7? Do you mean .357 Mag? If so, then you are not aware of how powerful it can get, as I explained in my previous message. They can be a lot morepowerful than any 10mm, which is rather 'weak'.