Question for casters

[Clovishound]

I have been reloading for over a year, and am thinking about trying casting again due to the non availability of components. I have a fair amount of "pure" lead available, and no easy sources for wheel weights. I was talking with a local avid caster and he is having trouble finding wheel weights now.

Anyway, my thought was to buy some lead free solder and alloy my lead with it. I need to drop by the BORG and see what their on the shelf price is, but their website shows about $16/lb for lead free solder. I assume this is 95/5 solder. I was looking at some online info and they showed a 1/20 alloy of tin/lead will yield a BHN of 10. The 5% antimony should increase the BHN some. I have enough lead available that this would still give me a reasonable payback for my mold purchase with the lead I have onhand. I am planning on using a 140gr SWC for .38 special. My buddy has a .356 sizer, and I might size a few and try them with my 9mm.

Anybody tried this? Bad idea? Workable?

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

If you haven't already, join the Cast Boolits forum. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

I took up casting several years ago. I have yet to mess with any wheel weights. I use recycled range lead for most of my alloying. I do pick up pure lead when I can find it for what few roundballs I cast.

I use pewter as my tin source. I can still find a goodly bit at flea markets, auctions, and thrift stores. To get the antimony content up, I use monotype. I bought it from a classified on Cast Boolits. You can also add magnum shotgun shot to increase antimony and arsenic levels. If your alloy has antimony and you want to increase the hardness, you can drop your bullets from the mold into a bucket of water and wait a week before shooting them.

As to your plans for 9mm, most folks have better success sizing .357 or .358 and using a bit harder alloy. There's a lot of good info about shooting cast in 9mm over at Cast Boolits. You will want to slug your bore, measure the groove diameter with a micrometer (not calipers), and size .001 to .002 over groove diameter. .355 is the minimum groove diameter for 9mm and lots are made slightly larger.

Another thing is that the 9mm case wall tapers, meaning the cased wall is thicker at the base of the bullet than at the mouth. Heavier bullets sit deeper in the case and an alloy that is too weak will get swaged by the case. There is discussion about using a modified 38/357 expander to counter this. What bullet mold do you have? The 140 SWC I shoot in 9mm is the SAECO #383.

 

[chilidog]

On the castboolit site there is a calculator. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators
Open the calculator and type in the amount of different lead and different metals you are going to add in the spaces and it will give you a hardness that is pretty close.

 

[Clovishound]

What bullet mold do you have?

I don't have one yet. My buddy has a 124 gr 9mm tumble lube mold. We cast some with it last year, and had lots of problems. I think the biggest problem was the lead we were using was too soft. Didn't care much for the Alox lube either. I plan on pan lubing. If things go well I may look into a sizer luber down the road. If not, I may cast and pan lube until things settle down in the component market.

My LGS has a couple of .38 140 grain SWC molds on the shelf. I have been using some 158 grain Hornady SWCs in my new to me revolver, and had good experience with them. I was thinking about picking up one of the 140 grain molds today before they disappear. I really like the powder lube that Hornady uses. Too bad I couldn't use something like that for home cast bullets. But, I can live with a little smoking, and extra cleanup after a range visit.

Bad news is that if the bullets end up needing sizing, the wait time for a sizing die may be problematical. My buddy has a .356 sizing die. I will have to wait until I cast a few to see what the size out of the mold is before I can tell if they are close enough to .356 to be able to size for my 9. Being able to size for 9 would be a bonus. I am primarily looking to cast for .38 spcl right now. It seems to be more friendly to cast bullets. If things go well for .38, I would think the transition to 9 would be easier.

I have been shooting some .358 commercial cast without problems, and have even tried some .357 commercial cast my buddy loaded with good results. As long as the size out of the mold isn't much bigger than .358, I should be good to go for .38. I haven't slugged the barrel on my revolver. I am reluctant to try and clamp it solid enough to pound a bullet through it from the muzzle end. Maybe I should look up the procedure for this and give it a try.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

OK, let me see if I understand where you are at. You are looking to start casting for 38 Spl and possibly for 9mm. And, it would be nice if you could use the same cast bullet in both guns. What molds are you looking at in your LGS (make and model #)? Assuming these are true, here's some thoughts:

1. Before buying a mold, I'd slug both bores and the revolver's cylinder throats. Measure using a micrometer, not calipers. Ideally, your bullet is the same as your throat diameter and .001 to .002 bigger than groove diameter. My SR9c slugs at .356 and my S&W Model 28 at .357. I shoot .358 in both. Read up on this. Get some brass rod to use as a drift. I use a brass hammer. Clamp a piece of wood to a bench top and rest the forcing cone on that. Use a lead sinker close to the bore diameter. If it's a tad too small, whack it with a hammer to smoosh it fat enough. Let common sense prevail and you won't hurt your piece.

2. Pan lubing is a great way to start out. You have a wide variety of lubes to try. May I recommend White Label Lubes? BAC and Carnauba Red work great for me in these calibers. It's very economical, too.

3. If you need to size your bullets, a good way to start is to use Lee push-through dies. They mount on your reloading press and run about $20. If you need a custom size, you can contact Buckshot on the Cast Boolits forum. He makes them. Lee does, too, but it takes a while. If you find yourself casting and shooting in volume (say, 100s per week), then you might want a lubrisizer.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I don't have one yet. My buddy has a 124 gr 9mm tumble lube mold. We cast some with it last year, and had lots of problems. I think the biggest problem was the lead we were using was too soft.

Hi,

If that's the mold I think it is--from Lee?--I have and use the same one. It's advertised as a .356" mold, but mine turns out .357"-.358" bullets w/ straight wheelweights. From there I can size the bullets to .356" for the nine, or leave alone and load "as cast" in the .38 Spl. They work well in both guns...

Problems? The Lee molds, being aluminum, react a little differently from the iron/steel models from most mfrs. One thing they like is to have the alloy a touch hotter than required w/ the steel molds as they bleed heat faster. You don't say what kind of problems, but I don't think if you're talking about the bullet that drops from the mold that the problem is from "too soft" lead. Could be the mold needs to be cleaned (mineral spirits--ANY bit of oil/lube that gets in there can give you fits w/ poor fill out, shape, etc.) and/or the cavity needs to be smoked well (if bullet "sticks" and won't drop easily.) Hard to say w/o seeing it. If it drops ok, and you have problems w/ leading and such, then, yes, you might need to change the alloy some...

W/ the Liquid Alox lube, you'll probably want to thin it some if you don't already. A bit of mineral spirits added to the bottle may be enough, or you may wish to do what I do and put the bottle in a coffee mug of boiling water to thin it. Straight from the bottle the stuff's too thick for most people!

Also, once your bullets are loaded, you might wish to give 'em a wipe down w/ a rag and some mineral spirits. That will keep them from becoming "dirt magnets" and collecting every bit of dust, dirt, pocket lint and every other thing that comes by. Won't affect how they shoot at all.

Rick C

 

[Clovishound]

Thanks for all the replies. I managed to pick up some wheel weights this morning. I didn't get a ton of them, but enough to get started. I see the handwriting on the wall for wheel weights. I had to discard over half of them.

Anyway, I dropped by the LGS and picked up the mold. It is a Lee .358 140grn SWC double mold. I went ahead and lubed the mold with matches and melted a small quantity of weights and cast a few. I needed more heat. All the bullets suffered from cold mold syndrome. I will cast some at my buddy's house tomorrow. He has a big gas burner that will give us plenty of heat. Bullets measured out .359. They are .001 more than the Hornadys listed at .358 that I have been loading. Not sure if the extra .001 is a problem, I may look into a sizer. My buddy has a .356 sizer, so I may try and see if they will size with that for 9mm. Might be too big to size .356.

Now on to the next issues. I need to make up a batch of lube. No lube is available locally right now. I also need to find some data for these 140 grain SWCs in .38 with Universal or Titegroup.

For info, the problems we had with our cast bullets previously were extremely bad leading, and very poor accuracy. We had evidence of tumbling. Lots of holes in the targets were oval. My gun would end up very dirty after a range session. At $70 a thousand, the commercial bullets seemed a better deal to us. Current situation makes it more attractive to revisit and solve the problems.

As to slugging issues, I slugged my SR9c and found it to be .356. I found that both .356 and .357 sized cast bullets worked well. I am shooting .38 through a Model 10 pinned Smith with a 4" barrel.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

This guy is serious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4KmaXfoIKE

 

[gray wolf]

You need a mentor, not 50 people telling you what to do.
Take the advise and go here and JOIN.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php
This group of folks is the greatest group you will ever encounter. Take your issues one at a time, from step one on through. If you don't you will wind up getting very frustrated with casting. You need some basic understanding of whats going on. Some of your questions require multiple answers because some of your problems are not one answer questions. You need to start with the gun
( one at a time, not 9MM and 38. start with the 38, it's easy, the 9 is one of the most difficult rounds for a NEW-B to master. )
I could shoot pure lead in your 38 with no problems, you can to.
Go and join cast bullets and learn how, present your problems and try to solve one thing at a time. You have been given some good advise here, but it's buried amongst all the other post that mean nothing to you now, but will latter on.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Go and join cast bullets and learn how, present your problems and try to solve one thing at a time. You have been given some good advise here, but it's buried amongst all the other post that mean nothing to you now, but will latter on.

Hi,

If possible, add a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook to that excellent advice! MidwayUSA sometimes has it available--probably a few other sources do, too. Also, LASC (Los Angeles Silhouette Club) has some valuable info on their site... http://www.lasc.us/

Rick C

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

You can buy casting alloy from RotoMetals and get it as reasonable as you can make it up. http://www.rotometals.com/
This is virgin metals that are accurately alloyed to make the very best quality bullets from.

 

[Clovishound]

Well, I got a chance to shoot my first SWCs cast from wheel weights today. I melted up all the weights I got. I have another 6 - 8 lbs left. That includes recasting the ones I tried using a propane torch. I made up some beeswax/lithium grease lube. It stinks, and is a pain to use. It fired with a little smoke, nice crisp holes in the targets. I also did some with the Alox that came with the sizer. It worked better than it did for me last year. Not sticky after drying. These shot fine, with less smoke than the other lube. The holes weren't as crisp, but accuracy was as good or better than the beeswax/grease.

I called Hodgdon and they said to use 158 grain SWC data. The start loads were really mild with better accuracy than the 158 grain Hornadys I have been using. The middle loads were even more accurate with rather mild recoil. I was very happy.

The best 6 round groups were just a single ragged hole at 7 yds. This is the best accuracy I have had to date with this weapon. This was hand held, not from a rest or vise.

No noticeable leading or extra dirt/residue in the gun.

Next batch will be dumped onto a blanket, as advised. I had some dents from dumping them while still soft.

Bottom line, I'm a happy camper.