Question about grip material

[norfolknova]

Does Elm make a good grip material? I have a large elm tree in the back yard that I have had to take down and was wondering if it might be worth my time to dry some of it and attempt my first shot at making some grips with it.

Thanks

matt

 

[Tellico]

If it happens to be spalted like this it would make some beauties. http://www.flickr.com/photos/appalachianartisanwoodco/5838906593/

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Elm has an interlocking grain. It is difficult to work without getting tearouts. I would choose a different wood.

 

[41 Magnum]

Elm with a nice grain pattern will make some beautiful grips ! BUT, . . . . it must be cut & dried first, best to around 6% to 10% moisture content. If it is not, it will draw & crack as it dries as grips. Most all my "fresh cut" wood is on racks in my garage for 2 to 3 years before using. If you can find someone who operates a Kiln, have the log sawed & dried, & you should have some nice lumber.

 

[toysoldier]

Howdy

Elm has an interlocking grain. It is difficult to work without getting tearouts. I would choose a different wood.

The interlocking grain made it the wood of choice for wheel hubs and pully blocks, but I wouldn't recommend it for a first-time project. It's not the most sought-after firewood, either, but if you are cutting it down anyway, you might as well get some use from it.

For your first grips, get some walnut. Check thrift stores (Goodwill, Salvation Army) and flea markets for some cheap shelf, box or even award plaque made of walnut. There is no hardwood easier to work with or finish nicely. Sanding dust may be irritating, so wear a mask or get good airflow blowing it away. A small 4-in-hand rasp is a great rough-shaping tool. Have fun!

 

[norfolknova]

Thankyou for the replies. I was just curious since I have the wood laying around in my yard right now any way. Most of it will go to being used for firewood. It is free. i may just cut some blocks out fir some of it and work on drying it just to have it for the future. It seems like it has some nice color to it, will have to see how the coloring goes as it dries.

matt

 

[woodsy]

You should eventually try the elm, if only to educate yourself. The interlocking grain, on the other (unmentioned) hand, helps prevent splitting.
You don't need a kiln to dry it, since you need small pieces. If you have a toaster-oven which will run at low temps, about 150 degrees, you're almost there. You also need an accurate way of measuring the weight of pieces about twice the thickness and width which you'll make the grips from. (Got a scale for powder-measuring?) First step is to weigh a small piece and record the weight. Then "bake" it at the low temp for several hours. If it begins to char then your temp is too high. After several hours weigh the piece again. That will be your zero-percent moisture content. Before you baked it the piece was at the "air-dry" moisture content (if it was stored outside out of the rain), which is about 16-20% moisture content. The difference in weight between 16-20% and zero percent is the weight of the water which evaporated or "baked" out. You want to remove a little more than half of that weight (of water) from your workpieces. So begin baking the workpieces (which you might make grips from, and weighed before baking) and every half-hour or so remove them and weigh them. When they have lost the amount of weight you are shooting for (pun intended) you can let them cool. You will then have wood to make grips from.
You have now "kiln-dried" your own lumber, without a moisture meter (which would have made everything easy, but isn't cheap).
Wood for grips is easy to get, 'cause the pieces are so small.

 

[Salmoneye]

I've got elm drying now...Will make some nice grips in a while...

 

[norfolknova]

Another question about this. Which part of the tree/limb makes for the best looking pattern. i have everything from small limbs about 4 inches across to the main trunk which is 28 maybe 30 inches across(much more than my 18 inch chain saw will tackle). So is the center of a larger section better, or maybe from the outer rings. Is a smaller branch better or the larger trunk. Or just look for some pieces with the tightest grain. I hatre to be a pain but I would hate to later relized I burned the best part for firewood. later I will post a pick of some of the small to mid size pieces end cut grain patterns for some advice.

matt

 

[woodsy]

Impossible to predict where the best figure will appear. Every tree is different, and there are differences in each tree. I can show you some beatiful curly soft maple from a tree from a friend, which also has some of the plainest maple I ever saw. Guess which will become firewood? You can split some to get a better feel for the grain, and even do some handplaning on the wet wood to see more.
I would suggest you try to find (in a library, probably) "Understanding Wood" and "Identifying Wood", both by R.Bruce Hoadley. Both are fantastic books to introduce one into the world of real wood.
By the way, thank you for your service in the Navy.

 

[norfolknova]

Thanks for the book recommendation. I should have some time on my hands with a hand surgery coming up so I should be able to find time to read it. I enjoy wood working, actually anything creative and I figured since I have the free wood available It might be worth a try. Worst case is it comes out really suckey and I still have my current wood grips

matt

 

[norfolknova]

i started this thread about a month or so ago, I just had my surgery tuesday, so I am still healing. But a freind of mine, his neighbor cut down an oak tree so I got a couple of pieces from that in the hopes also of making a set of grips from oak. It will be a learning experience for me. It will be a couple of more weeks before I have full hand strength back but I cant wait to get started

MAtt

 

[Bountyhunter]

Good luck with the project and post pics of them when you get them done.

 

[mr surveyor]

would several hours/days in a food dehydrator do the trick on small slabs?

 

[woodsy]

Any idea what kind of oak? White oak, red oak, live oak? There are significant differences among them, some of which can affect the final product. One of the reasons I made the book recommendations.
mr surveyor has a pretty good recommendation concerning the food dehydrator, especially if the temp is kept low. Don't have any idea of the length of time to dry it, but would be interesting to try while you have the time.
Above all, good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[swindler1]

You should eventually try the elm, if only to educate yourself. The interlocking grain, on the other (unmentioned) hand, helps prevent splitting.
You don't need a kiln to dry it, since you need small pieces. If you have a toaster-oven which will run at low temps, about 150 degrees, you're almost there. You also need an accurate way of measuring the weight of pieces about twice the thickness and width which you'll make the grips from. (Got a scale for powder-measuring?) First step is to weigh a small piece and record the weight. Then "bake" it at the low temp for several hours. If it begins to char then your temp is too high. After several hours weigh the piece again. That will be your zero-percent moisture content. Before you baked it the piece was at the "air-dry" moisture content (if it was stored outside out of the rain), which is about 16-20% moisture content. The difference in weight between 16-20% and zero percent is the weight of the water which evaporated or "baked" out. You want to remove a little more than half of that weight (of water) from your workpieces. So begin baking the workpieces (which you might make grips from, and weighed before baking) and every half-hour or so remove them and weigh them. When they have lost the amount of weight you are shooting for (pun intended) you can let them cool. You will then have wood to make grips from.
You have now "kiln-dried" your own lumber, without a moisture meter (which would have made everything easy, but isn't cheap).
Wood for grips is easy to get, 'cause the pieces are so small.

Listen to this man. He knows of what he speaks. He has helped me in the past.

 

[larry8]

Fresh oak cracks quick and easy unless kiln dried. I had some luck with red oak by coating the pieces with melted candle wax and storing them in a tub filled with sawdust for 2-3 years. Elm would make a nicer looking grip if cut from near the tree base or at a branch junction (like some walnut rifle stocks are cut from).

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have never had any luck trying to FORCE dry any wood.
Figured wood will twist and crack if dried too fast.
My Boss goes through lots of Walnut at the Stihl saw shop where I work
(now part time,retired don't ya know). Here are a couple pics.
Big black walnut log.

My little pistol grip duplicator.

some grips in progress.

These grips and the piece laying under them were out of my bosses scrap box.

You can find some pretty nice wood in old shipping pallets,and scrap found at
furniture stores or other specialty wood working shops. We can use those small pieces that they just throw out or have defects that we can work around.
Have fun!!

 

[norfolknova]

I hope I can make grips that comeout that nice one day. Those are really nice looking. I am sure it will take me a few attempts to even come close to looking like grips. It will be a learning experience for me, but working with my hands is somehing I enjoy. I will post pics of my progress once I am able to start the project. Right now i still have swelling in one of wrists from the surgery so it will be a few more days before I can start anything

Matt

 

[woodsy]

Quote:
"I have never had any luck trying to FORCE dry any wood.
Figured wood will twist and crack if dried too fast."

Then you (Chuck) shouldn't try to do what the lumber industry has successfully been doing for more than the past 100 years. I, and thousands of other woodworkers have been, and will continue, using kiln-dried wood to make some of the most durable and beautiful wooden furniture ever made. And that's not even including what the high-volume factories are offering. Kiln drying works if done correctly. "Schedules" exist in the industry for each type and thickness of wood and should be followed. Each "schedule" describes the temperatures and lengths of time for the wood under discussion, depending on many variables. Luckily for we pistol shooters, the relatively small pieces we need make the "forced" drying of freshly-cut "wet" wood very easy and simple to do. We don't really care about the "schedules", because the pieces are so small.
Another reference book is "Wood Handbook - Wood As An Engineering Material", put out by the Forest Products Laboratory, part of the USDA, and updated frequently.
Don't be afraid of experimenting with any type of woods for your pistol grips: again, they are very small pieces. The only exceptions would be the tiny fraction which are toxic when sanded, etc.

 

[wavehopr]

Heard a story one time about walnut. A lumber company went up the Wabash river basin and bought (and harvested) all the walnut trees they could. A few years later another company also went up the same river basin and bought the stumps - and paid more. Seems the root/trunk "swirlwood" was more valuable for gun stocks.

 

[woodsy]

Heard a story one time about walnut. A lumber company went up the Wabash river basin and bought (and harvested) all the walnut trees they could. A few years later another company also went up the same river basin and bought the stumps - and paid more. Seems the root/trunk "swirlwood" was more valuable for gun stocks.

Quite true. That situation exists for many hardwoods, and a couple of softwoods. Another name for that wood is oftentimes called "burl". Burl grips can be extremely handsome. The wood's a little more difficult to work with, but I'll say it again: we're only dealing with small pieces of wood here, literally what will fit in one's hand.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

woodsy, of course you are right about kiln drying of wood.

I just did not want anyone to think that he could pop his pond dried wood into the
toaster and up pops a ready to go piece of lumber.
I have ruined several pieces of high grade wood attempting that myself.
There are lots of sources of quality woods to make grips out of. One don`t have to pay big bux for it.
I take any green woods I come up with and seal the end grain, label it with a date and just stash it away in the shop and forget about it.
I used to buy reject gunstocks from Bishop (now Boyds) and Fajen for just about the cost of shipping. They would have used them to heat the shop with.

Here is some I got last year. Air dried in a barn since Feb. 1988 (23 years)

 

[larry8]

Looks like you can make 3 or 4 grip sets with that much wood.
What do you use all that wood for?

 

[woodsy]

Chuck:
What a stash!!!
You're good about sealing the end grain. Prevents end checks. Although if one wanted to make grips only, there's quite enough there to waste a little on the ends!
By your info, I guess they have reached air-dried status, which normally takes about an inch per year outdoors. (Insert chuckle here; wish I had that much stashed away).
What caliber is that lever-action?

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

larry8 , One can never have too much wood. I cut it into rifle stock blanks and will sell some and make a few stocks with the best stuff. Most of the highly figured pieces have defects that prevent them from making good rifle stocks so they get used for other things like pistol grips and knife handles and such. I saved about 35 blanks out of that pile. and lots of smaller pieces.
some went in the wood stove.

woodsy , The rifle is a .45 mod.92 short rifle from Navy Arms. ( Rossi made)
The Navy Arms 92`s had walnut stocks and all others Rossi made were of
"wonder wood".
that pile is about 1/3 of the walnut I have at this time.
My boss has over 3,000 board feet dried and about that much still to mill.
He sells air dried walnut locally for about $10 a board foot,rough sawn, Your choice
of piece!
Here is a stock duplicator I made.

 

[larry8]

That is only 1/3 of what you have. Thats a lot of wood. And I thought I had a lot.

 

[norfolknova]

So here are the rusults at my first attempt at make=ing a set of grips for my Black Hawk. They are not completely done as I am waiting for the mounting hardware I ordered and I am still trying to figure out what type of final finish to put on(any suggestions would be appreciated as I am by no means a woodworking expert).
The only tools I used were a compund miter saw, a scroll saw, and a couple of had rasps. followed up with rigirous sandind by hand. These are made from the oak I got form over at a friends house. I havn't started messing with the elm as of yet.

So here they are after sanding to 800 grit

Here is a pic of them with two coats of Danish oil in natural finish

And here they are fitted on my pistol

 

[larry8]

Those are nice. Did you use a wood filler before the Danish oil? As oak is quite porus and will darken with oils from your hand. Although I've never made any grips I use a lot of exotic wood for my projects and grind the shavings from turning to use as a filler on the porus woods.

 

[woodsy]

Those are nice. Did you use a wood filler before the Danish oil? As oak is quite porus and will darken with oils from your hand. Although I've never made any grips I use a lot of exotic wood for my projects and grind the shavings from turning to use as a filler on the porus woods.

So, which oak is it?
If it's white oak it needs no filler because the pores are filled (by the tree) with tyloses. That's why it's the choice for wine barrels.