? on Consecutive #ed Guns

[1gunsnotenough]

How does a set of consecutive numbered guns value change due to the consecutive numbers?

 

[radicalrod]

USUALLY costs ME more some say it adds up to 3 guns :shock: :shock: :shock: I think it may bring a small premium but.......YMMV, see ya RR.

 

[flatgate]

I'm with RadicalRod! They are very appealing to the totally bonkers collector, er, ah-hem, I mean very experienced, discriminating collector.

A "put together" pair is very neat. Something to be proud of. A pair SHIPPED as a pair from the Factory is, if in the pre-'73 era, a real prize to the vast majority of collectors. Post '73, "New Model" pairs, if "scarce" variations or "Low Numbered" guns are rather desirable, as well.

Some guys/gals have a "knack" and can turn up matching guns quite often. (Having special trained "Ruger Sniffing Dogs" is a definite asset. )

I think Factory Shipped Consecutive Pairs need to be evaluated on a "as seen" basis. Random guns shipped together are neat, but the value hinges on their "basic collectability factor". Paired up "run of the mill" guns are't going to bring the values of pairs of hard to find versions.

Bottom Line? I guess each individual "set" needs close inspection and Factory Provenance.

JMHO, and I'm one of MANY folks with opinions on this subject.

flatgate

 

[Coogs]

Something is worth what ever someone is willing to pay for it. Flatgate has a pretty good handle on it..............I like to think a consec pair can add 10-20%.................but every pair is different. And on a lighter note...........Rod, the only reason you pay more for stuff is cause your a flatlander!!!! Love ya, Coogs.

 

[rugerguy]

yessir, this is very subjective, and base the 'higher values' on more collectible guns, as for some time, consecutive numbered "new models" could have been purcheased for an "extra" $15 from some distributors as well as the factory.....................
it "used" to be a 50% value of one gun, now as said above ,some state, its 505 of the total package, thus making it as 'radical'says, "the cost of 3 guns....", we don;t buy that and will NOT pay that, sorry..........
its a numbers game, some collectors like to play, and will "pay to play" but we like to 'fall into these...', not hock the farm & family jewels..... 8)

 

[BlackEagle]

If you are talking about New Models, I think you can almost get a discount if you buy 2 guns (consecutive) versus just one (it will probably take some looking though.) Old Models are a totally different story, and I wouldn't begin to guess. It is probably different for every variation.

 

[chet15]

I too have heard some collectors pricing their consecutive pairs with the premium of one additional gun added to the value. Personally I think that is too much, but then again, some of the pairs extent can never be duplicated.
To me, a premium on an OM pair is worth 50% additional of another gun.
New Models, less so...but again, all depends on what the two guns are (and their conditions!!). The GKNR4F/KRB-24AW pair we recently sold is an example of a very subjective premium, but who else is going to be able to put a pair like that together since there were only three GKNR4F's made. Like 41nut's BKH-41B/BKH-42B pair. Worth at least another gun in premium? I think so!!
To me also, a pair shipped as a consecutive pair from the factory is neat, but I.M.O. no more so than a pair put together from different sources. They're still a consecutive pair. I think most collectors could care less who each gun was originally shipped to...but if to somebody like a writer or other standout in the industry, then there should be subjective premium added as a result of the individual they were shipped to.
Chet15

 

[Axehandle]

After spending 20 years cultivating a relationship with my dealer I seem to be acquiring more and more consecutive serial number pairs... Any time a significant shipment comes in from Lipsey's he checks for consecutive serial number pairs before he calls me... We have done VERY WELL on the recent FT 44 Special shipments...
It is KILLING ME!

 

[BlackEagle]

After spending 20 years cultivating a relationship with my dealer I seem to be acquiring more and more consecutive serial number pairs... Any time a significant shipment comes in from Lipsey's he checks for consecutive serial number pairs before he calls me... We have done VERY WELL on the recent FT 44 Special shipments...
It is KILLING ME!

So, do you have a collection of pairs or a pair of collections? :lol:

 

[radicalrod]

Hey Axe.....welcome to my world gosh I am not sure but I may be approaching 30 pair of consecutive numbered stuff :shock: :shock: :shock: ALL but 2 are OM's.......had to have a pair of both the NM 357 Ft and 44 NM FT.....I have tried to give up "OVER PAYING" for a gun I feel I need and thanks to PRESIDENT OBAMA's HOPE and CHANGE economy I may actually be cured for quite a while :lol: :lol: :lol: see ya RR.

 

[Axehandle]

The bad thing is I didn't ask for this "Pair" affliction... Luckily mine are all NMs. Seems like it started with some little insignificant Bearcats... Then those stainless SBHs, then the Bisley FTs and the Stainless FTs.... At this point in time the whole thing appears to be picking up speed....

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

I too have heard some collectors pricing their consecutive pairs with the premium of one additional gun added to the value. Personally I think that is too much, but then again, some of the pairs extent can never be duplicated.
To me, a premium on an OM pair is worth 50% additional of another gun.
New Models, less so...but again, all depends on what the two guns are (and their conditions!!). The GKNR4F/KRB-24AW pair we recently sold is an example of a very subjective premium, but who else is going to be able to put a pair like that together since there were only three GKNR4F's made. Like 41nut's BKH-41B/BKH-42B pair. Worth at least another gun in premium? I think so!!Chet15

I also think it depends on the individual guns themselves. Here's an example . I was fortunate enough to buy the pair mentioned above off of Dave & Chad,and consider them the "Holy Grail" of NM Single-Six's.

I collect NM fixed sight 4 5/8" Uncataloged Single-Six guns, NO collection would ever be complete without an Uncataloged GKNR4F!!! there could only be Three complete sets ever put together. It also makes my set of
GKNR4F - GKNR5F & GKNR6F the only complete set I know of. As well
as being the Most Unusualy Configured Consecutive # set of Ruger revolvers out there.
Fun isn't it!!!

So I believe the pair of guns and their provonance will establish their own price!! :wink: JMHO

 

[flatgate]

T.A., that's AS GOOD AS IT GETS!!!

Wow! :shock:

flatgate

 

[flatgate]

OK, one more comment about the pairs. I strongly believe that "shipped as a consecutive pair" has much more appeal than "put together as a pair". Now, the "rare factor" of the individual specimens certainly weighs in. (Case in point, T.A.'s above NM Single-Sixes!)

For instance, I have a consecutive pair of NM Bearcats. There's nothing out of the ordinary here, just a Factory Shipped Consecutive S/N pair of 'cats.

On the other hand I have a "put together" pair of Consecutively Numbered .44 Flattops that are "late shipped/XR3-RED grip frame" guns.

I'll definitely put a higher value on the pair of Flattops vs. the pair of NM Bearcats.



flatgate

 

[flattop44]

Oh yeah Flatgate....100% agreement on that!! 8)
FT44

 

[Ruger1441]

Then there is my consecutively number old model flattops that letter as
being shipped as a pair

 

[BlackEagle]

There will probably be more and more put together pairs as time goes on, so the premium may decrease compared to the shipped pairs. I wonder if there are more Old Model shipped pairs or put together pairs right now!? Then there are pairs that shipped as pairs, then got split up...and maybe even put tohether again.

 

[flatgate]

jfmcco,

Your statement about the probability of more and more pairs being "put together" has some validity, especially with the "newer" guns. However, when discussing the Old Models then there are a lot of "if's" since a lot of them seem to "disappear" and aren't showing up. Splitz constantly reminds us of the many, many "missing" Factory Engraved OM Single-Sixes. These are "presentation grade" guns in nice display cases but oh, so many of them are "yet to be seen". I dunno?

I'll stand by my evaluations. Shipped as a pair plus the "rariety factor" would garner the higher values.

For me, the "how bad do I want it" factor will trump all other logic. Period.

flatgate

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

Gentlemen,
All good points above, and thought to back them up!

I am one of the few who do believe that certain New Model Consecutively
numbered guns can justify a speculative third gun premium. For example
how about a consecutive pair of anyone of these? KNR4 "Liberty" or KNR9 or a "Star" S4,S9, KS4, KS9 or KBN-36X, 2 digit S-44-40 & Buckeye guns
Maxi's and even some of the old D/A Six's.
I agree that the common NM guns consecutively numbered would bring a
premium of 10-20%.

Old Models boggle my mind when it comes to establishing a value when
consecutively paired. Again rarity and were they shipped as a pair mean
all the world assuming that the condition meets collector quality (which "rarity could and often does trump?).
As radical so often states YMMV!!! and again JMHO.
Great discussion.
Terry

 

[flatgate]

Terry,
Hmm, well, here's a pair that may boggle 'ya....

Shipped together March 2nd., 1954 to a Distributor. No mention about fancy grips, though.....

flatgate

 

[street]

OK, one more comment about the pairs. I strongly believe that "shipped as a consecutive pair" has much more appeal than "put together as a pair". Now, the "rare factor" of the individual specimens certainly weighs in. (Case in point, T.A.'s above NM Single-Sixes!)

For instance, I have a consecutive pair of NM Bearcats. There's nothing out of the ordinary here, just a Factory Shipped Consecutive S/N pair of 'cats.

On the other hand I have a "put together" pair of Consecutively Numbered .44 Flattops that are "late shipped/XR3-RED grip frame" guns.

I'll definitely put a higher value on the pair of Flattops vs. the pair of NM Bearcats.



flatgate

I also put more value on the consecutive pair of Flattops then the consecutive pair of New Model Bearcats. The reason is that one Flattop is worth a lot more then one New Model Bearcat, so two Flattops will be worth much more then two new model Bearcats. Now going back to 1962 would those consecutive Flattops bring any more of a premium back then, then the consecutive New Model Bearcats do now. Probably not. This is like compairing Apples to Oranges. Very very collectibly Rugers to Shooter Rugers. Two things make a gun worth a lot of money. One is it has to have a limited supply of them, and the second there has to be a great demand for them, meaning a lot of collectors, collecting that model. You got to have both. It doesn't matter how rare something is if no one collects them they will never bring a premium price. This is the reason that some of the New Model Rugers are not bringing the price that the Old Model Ruger are. Even though some of the New Models are more rare then most of the Old Model Rugers. This will only change if a lot of collectors start collecting the New Models as hard as they collect the Old Models.

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

Terry,
Hmm, well, here's a pair that may boggle 'ya....

Shipped together March 2nd., 1954 to a Distributor. No mention about fancy grips, though.....

flatgate

:shock:That's exactly what I mean, one thing for sure speculative premium value would be more than a third gun!! :wink: :wink:

Street,
I agree 100% with you. The new and upcoming Collectors will establish what is collectable and what isn't. I believe New Models & D/A Six's will be
a big part of the future of Ruger Collecting. That is providing we grow with new blood (members).

Terry

 

[BlackEagle]

...For me, the "how bad do I want it" factor will trump all other logic. Period.

flatgate

Assuming that pair of flatgates will never be for sale separately from the rest of Flatgate's 100 collection, is there even a premium in value due to the consecutive 100 and 101? Or is the hypothetical premium negligible since they are part of a special collection? Realistically, can you imagine the bidding for THAT pair if that collection was being auctioned off? Imagine all the bidders that couldn't afford to bid on the whole collection, but could maybe get a piece or two. How many rabid collector's would be determined to get THAT pair of Flatgate's flatgates? ...and how much of the final price would be due to the fact that they shipped as a consecutive pair?...in fact, it's not implausible that they might get split up in an auction, which would indicate they are worth MORE separately.

Similarly, with New Models there aren't as many people looking to buy a pair of revolvers as are looking for just one. Most buyers probably have enough extra money to spend to get one and they aren't going to wait until they have saved enough for a pair. I think cowboy action shooters are by far the majority of customers looking for two revolvers at once, and they are generally looking at only a couple models, which are pretty easy to find as consecutive pairs.

 

[hr2lrn]

I went to a local mall in New Orleans about 30-35 years ago and they were setting up for a Father's day display in open mall area. Bunches of guys with tool collections, wood crafts, etc. There was a young man - about my age at the time - there with a Ruger collection. He had a consecutive S/N pair of Hawkeye pistols. It was the first time I had ever seen a Hawkeye or consecutive pairs of anything. It blew me away. Every time the Hawkeye comes up, I still always think about that day. I ofter wonder what happened to that guy and where are the guns.

With the internet, it is a lot easier to post serial numbers and have others reply that they have the one you need. So putting together sets are going to become a lot easier in the near future.

On the other hand, "insiders" at distributors and the gun companies have taken some of the fun out of the hunt. In the old days, we all scoured all the different "hole in the wall" places to find that particular treasure. Now days, a lot of the real treasures are picked up at the distributors, letters prepared and then the goodies are sold off to the insiders. I personally think that situations like this will eventually do harm to the hobby.

We all collect for the hope of one day finding that rare piece that we can sell for a gazillion dollars to justify our insanity to our wife and kids. That possibility, even though it HARDLY EVER HAPPENED in the old days, will just about NEVER happen in the future.

But what in the hell do I know. Look at my screen name.