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hickoryhillbill

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On Monday bought the grandson a 870 pump for his first shotgun. Have had several through the years and always were very good guns . This one was the pits . Fit and finish were terrible and even after cleaning the action felt like gravel. Went back to the gun shop and the owner agreed it was bad . Got a 500 Mossberg instead. My first experience with a Mossberg but it won't be the last. Perfect fit and finish and smooth as warm grease right out of the box. I am impressed.
 
I have to admit, the 870's I've handled lately have been lacking, as well. I suspect they might smooth out with use, but I remember when I got mine back in the 60's. Slick right from the box.
 
RKB said:
Was that an 870 Express, or a Wingmaster?
Click to expand...

Hi,

Sounds like an Express...

I've had a number of Wingmasters, and all have been as smooth as some of you have mentioned. A year or so ago I bought an Express. My BIL had bought it, never shot it, and needed some cash. He wanted about half of what they are new, so I took it.

How would the kids say it? OMG! Those who remember the ads for the Wingmasters in the '50s and '60s will recognize their term "Vibrahoned." Methinks that was simply a version of the tumbling we do with brass for reloading, and it did a real nice job of deburring everything. When Remington brought out the Express (trying to compete at the Mossberg price point?), it looks like they started putting the guns together just as the parts came from initial production. There's NOTHING that was deburred, polished, honed, or otherwise "finished" on that Express I got the way I'd remembered on my Wingmasters...

A buddy had one, which I shot once on a duck trip, that was as slick as any Wingmaster I ever shot. He told me his not so secret method: disassemble the gun, clean everything well, GREASE it all, reassemble, then sit in front of the TV shucking it for about 1500 times. Take it back apart, clean again, oil properly, reassemble, then go out and shoot it. About 2500 rounds. Should be a familiar drill for experienced Ruger owners, eh?

I didn't use his exact method, having developed some pet ways of administering a fluff and buff myself, but my Express is now smooth enough to be pleasant to use. Nothing like one of my 870 trap guns I sold right after it hit 100,000 rounds, but as good as my Mossberg was before it got umpteen hundred rounds thru it. If the Express slicks up like the Mossberg with some use, I'll be a happy camper, and the $200 it cost will seem like a bargain.

Else I'll save up about $800 and get another REAL 870, a Wingmaster! ;)

Rick C
 
Hi the Express guns are not your 60s 870 I bought a Express mag turkey gun at a pawn shop back in the 80s at a pawn shop that someone had painted in desert storm camo got it for $106 otd I thought it would be a nice upgrade from my old High Standard Flight King finish was terrible but it works but far from smooth my son in law liked it so he bought a new one about 5 years ago he had it for about a month and it jammed up tight he brought it over for me to get the live shell out what a job :shock: :shock: when I got it apart the PLASTIC trigger group housing was split apart I sent it to Remington they repaired it and sent it back well it didn't last thru the bird season same thing happened again :evil: :evil: I wanted to send it back again but he was so mad he said he was going to keep it to show everyone what a peace of junk it was he is a hard headed character

Gramps
 
When it comes to pump shotguns, all mine are Mossbergs. They seem to be the only company actually improving their products each year, rather than making them cheaper.

Even their economy line, Maveric makes a really reliable shotgun.

One that shows real promise is the RIA shotgun. I almost bought one but I ended up with another Mossberg before one became available. I almost wish I had waited.
 
Sorry guys it was a Wingmaster. Shot several dozen clays with the Mossberg today . For the money I don't think this shotgun can be beat. But thats just an old man's opinion and I was a lifelong Rem fanboy. Times change.
 
7 early 870 Wingmasters live in my safe and 2 870 express's, 1 20ga and 1 12ga. The express's were bought as more of a tool and a starter for the kid. Lots of rounds have been run through the express's courtesy of our Boy Scouts. They are nice and smooth now, but still nothing like the old Wingmasters. It sure seems like the pawn shop always have some older 870's in the $300 range. Can't imagine buying new when there seems to be a glut of nice used ones out there. Glad it worked out for you with the Mossy but I could never make that change.
 
I've never had a reason to regret buying my old Mossberg 500. Smooth action, reliable, and inexpensive. What more could one ask?
 
Unfortunately, from what I've heard and read lately, if I was going to buy an 870 it would be a Wingmaster and it would be a "used" gun from either a gun shop consignment, Gunbroker (or other such web site) or from a pawn shop. I have an 870 that's almost as old as I am and have never had an issue with it. Never heard of anyone having much of a problem with any Wingmaster over say 10 years old or so. You can check the serial number on the Remington web site and find out when it was made.
 
redhawker said:
Unfortunately, from what I've heard and read lately, if I was going to buy an 870 it would be a Wingmaster and it would be a "used" gun
Click to expand...

Hi,

It's sad to see a once great product fall to the whims of the bean counters and such, isn't it?

Of course, shooters don't really help the situation in a lot of cases, either. Just a for instance: I can't think of how many people told me the Model 12 Winchester was the finest pump shotgun ever made when I was a kid, yet they shot department store brand pumps, maybe an occasional Mossberg or an 870, because the M-12 was "too expensive." My father was among them, spending $69 for an 870 rather than saving up another month or two for the $89 M-12 in 1960! I bit my tongue cuz he coulda been shooting a Browning quickly enough for the money he spent trying to rid the world of those evil distilled spirits, and I'm sure a lot of those other folks wasted similar amounts of money on useless stuff. (Some things never change.) Then when Winchester made some changes to be more competitive, they wouldn't buy one because "it's not the same gun." Later, those same cheapskates couldn't understand why they'd have to pay three times the price of the new ones just a few years earlier for a used one in good condition!

Oh, well... :roll:

BTW, RH, if memory serves, didn't you pick up a Benelli Supernova a few years back? If I got that right, how are your impressions of it after a couple of seasons?

Rick C
 
I have two wonderful 870s one is a 1954 20ga in beautiful condition. and a 1953 16ga 870 in same condition. smooth as butter
 
Rick Courtright said:
redhawker said:
Unfortunately, from what I've heard and read lately, if I was going to buy an 870 it would be a Wingmaster and it would be a "used" gun
Click to expand...

Hi,

It's sad to see a once great product fall to the whims of the bean counters and such, isn't it?

Of course, shooters don't really help the situation in a lot of cases, either. Just a for instance: I can't think of how many people told me the Model 12 Winchester was the finest pump shotgun ever made when I was a kid, yet they shot department store brand pumps, maybe an occasional Mossberg or an 870, because the M-12 was "too expensive." My father was among them, spending $69 for an 870 rather than saving up another month or two for the $89 M-12 in 1960! I bit my tongue cuz he coulda been shooting a Browning quickly enough for the money he spent trying to rid the world of those evil distilled spirits, and I'm sure a lot of those other folks wasted similar amounts of money on useless stuff. (Some things never change.) Then when Winchester made some changes to be more competitive, they wouldn't buy one because "it's not the same gun." Later, those same cheapskates couldn't understand why they'd have to pay three times the price of the new ones just a few years earlier for a used one in good condition!

Oh, well... :roll:

BTW, RH, if memory serves, didn't you pick up a Benelli Supernova a few years back? If I got that right, how are your impressions of it after a couple of seasons?

Rick C
Click to expand...

Good memory Rick. Yeah, I've got a Supernova and I was considering getting a different shotgun (in fact was thinking about trying to find a used Wingmaster to replace it). I've had it refuse to eject shells, which I believe I've solved by literally polishing out the chamber (didn't have this issue last season anyway), and, last season I had it malfunction as the trigger locked back and wouldn't reset, which required me to field strip it to free the trigger. Unfortunately the IRS must have seen most of my OJbama posts and literally (how can I say this nicely...lets say...) gave me a "special" kind of rectal exam to the tune of about $8800, part of it from a "mistake" on our 2013 return, so no new shotgun this year. I did, however, find a pretty simple fix on-line for the trigger problem so we'll see how it goes this season. Apparently the back of the trigger is squared off and under heavy recoil (like 3.5 duck loads) will lock the trigger. The fix is to just slightly round off the back of the trigger and it won't hang. I still haven't pulled it out of the safe and done the mod but since the season's getting close I'm going to do it soon. Over all not real impressed with the Benelli but I'm stuck with it this year anyway.

I guess Remington didn't make many of them but my usual hurting buddy has a 3 1/2 chamber Wingmaster (probably 10 years old I'm thinking?) and it is a typical (older) Wingmaster. Never had a problem with it, smooth as silk, a great gun. I'd like to find one of those as I'd like the capability for 3 1/2 shells. Most of the Wingmasters are 3".
 
Guess my opinion will be the other side of the coin. 8)

I've owned a huge assortment of shotguns over a lot of years. Some of them were so beautiful they belonged in a glass case. And they were smooth. Seldom did I actually hunt with many of them, cuz they were just too gorgeous. I didn't want to beat them up. So I hunted mostly with an 870. Never had to worry about them in the chukar slides, or in the rain and snow, or even in the mud. Rinsed them off in the river and they continued to work perfectly. But even the old 870 TC or TB Wingmasters were pretty gorgeous guns. So then the Express came along. The finish was about on par with my Army issued weapons. And the action was equally rough. But they worked every time. And they always shot well. Over time, the actions even smoothed themselves out.

So I guess my opinion is, I very much appreciate the 870 Express, and it's still the shotgun I grab first when I'm headed up in the mountains. My other opinion is there is no Mossberg pump shotgun to compare with any 870.

WAYNO. :mrgreen:
 
redhawker said:
I guess Remington didn't make many of them but my usual hurting buddy has a 3 1/2 chamber Wingmaster (probably 10 years old I'm thinking?) and it is a typical (older) Wingmaster. Never had a problem with it, smooth as silk, a great gun. I'd like to find one of those as I'd like the capability for 3 1/2 shells. Most of the Wingmasters are 3".
Click to expand...

Hi,

RH, thanks for the field report on the Benelli. One of my hunting buddies has the "original" SBE, and absolutely loves it, especially when he's putting 3 1/2 inchers down the pipe, and other SBE owners I've talked to seemed to like them. SBE IIs I'm not so sure about, as I've heard a story here and there that wasn't quite so positive. And I've talked to guys who bought Novas, but only used 'em with 2 3/4 inch shells, so they didn't report any heavy recoil problems, though a couple explained the guns were mighty stiff out of the box.

On those 3 1/2" 870s, I've heard of 'em but never seen one. Somehow I kinda thought Remington must have made 'em for about a week while they put the finishing touches on the 887. My 12 ga. Wingmaster and Express are both 3" guns, and I have to make sure I don't short shuck 'em with 3" shells, so I wondered then if maybe the 3 1/2" 870 was a stretch. I dunno... sounds like your buddy's works just fine!

My dove hunting this year was kinda secondary to some other things going on, but I did make a couple of trips over to San Jac to see what was going on out there. Since they'll let you hunt doves on the waterfowl side of Davis Rd. on opening day only, I took a hike over there. It looks like they're filling the ponds a little earlier this year, though I didn't see many ducks. Saw lots of other kinds of waterfowl, but even the mudhens weren't around yet.

Also ran into a fellow who had a brand new 887. He hadn't even fired it yet, and was anxious to run some ammo thru it. He told me he has an old 870 at home which was his Dad's, and he decided to turn it into a safe queen for a while to hand down to one of his kids when they get old enough to hunt. Plus they've got the non-lead shot requirement on all CDFW lands this year, and he figured it was a better idea to get a gun designed from the ground up for steel than to run the stuff thru his old fixed choke barrel. For those who don't mind basic black, the 887's dirt cheap, at least in a world of $1200-$1500 autoloaders! Under $400 I believe, though camo will set one back probably another benjie. It's an interesting looking gun, if a bit too "plastic fantastic" for my old "wood and steel" brain to wrap itself around in a case of love at first sight. Anyway, he fired exactly one round that day, so there wasn't much of a field report...

I just got a quick once over look at his gun. It shows just a touch of its 870 heritage, in a "Kid's got his grandfathers ears" sorta way, but overall seems to be pretty much a new design internally as well as externally. I kinda figure it will be a runaway success among pump gun fans, or a total turkey. It looked like a love-hate thing, with not much in the middle, but that's the dinosaur in me talking. Time will tell!

Rick C
 
WAYNO said:
Guess my opinion will be the other side of the coin. 8)

I've owned a huge assortment of shotguns over a lot of years. Some of them were so beautiful they belonged in a glass case. And they were smooth. Seldom did I actually hunt with many of them, cuz they were just too gorgeous. I didn't want to beat them up. So I hunted mostly with an 870. Never had to worry about them in the chukar slides, or in the rain and snow, or even in the mud. Rinsed them off in the river and they continued to work perfectly. But even the old 870 TC or TB Wingmasters were pretty gorgeous guns. So then the Express came along. The finish was about on par with my Army issued weapons. And the action was equally rough. But they worked every time. And they always shot well. Over time, the actions even smoothed themselves out.

So I guess my opinion is, I very much appreciate the 870 Express, and it's still the shotgun I grab first when I'm headed up in the mountains. My other opinion is there is no Mossberg pump shotgun to compare with any 870.

WAYNO. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I have an 870 bought new in the late 80s or early 90's and you describe it perfectly. Smooths out over time and never any issue with it.
 
Rick I'm sure the lack of ducks you saw on the dove opener was because of the dove hunting activity. I went there on the 9th and took a little "tour"...

Check out the pics in here and let me know what you think....
https://socalhunt.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/a-san-jacinto-tour-plans-for-the-season-and-a-sort-of-dove-hunt/
 
I made a mistake years ago buying a Winchester 1200. The thing had a thick shiny finish on the wood and was great at not quite locking up all the way so your second shot didn't fire. I lived out on the end of civilization at the time so it wasn't practical to send the thing to Winchester. The Mossberg is like an old ford F150, not too pretty but damn functional.
 
redhawker said:
Rick I'm sure the lack of ducks you saw on the dove opener was because of the dove hunting activity. I went there on the 9th and took a little "tour"...

Check out the pics in here and let me know what you think....
https://socalhunt.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/a-san-jacinto-tour-plans-for-the-season-and-a-sort-of-dove-hunt/
Click to expand...

Hi,

Great story, RH. Your work, I presume? Nicely done!

With the exception of the ducks, everything else sounds very much like what I saw: a lot more water for this time of the year than I've seen in a while, plus a LOT of feed with different plots all over the WA on both sides of Davis Rd., from way down south at the dog training area all the way up to the top ponds. I imagine having hunters on the waterfowl side did scare off a few ducks, though I didn't see many a couple of days later, either. Ran into a fellow who had his son out on a "camera hunt" who said he sometimes hunts the WA, but hadn't seen many ducks yet this year. So maybe they were all waiting to show up for your tour!

I still think the smartest move Tom ever made was whatever deal he cut with the local water district for reclaimed water! Last year I went to Niland for the dove opener, and mid-day before heading home got to talk with a couple of the CDFW folks who were doing bird counts. One fellow was sorta local, while the lady I talked to after "touring" the Wister WA was from the Sacramento area. In contrast to Tom's area which had just started rewatering some of the ponds shortly before the dove opener, Wister was dry as a bone 'cept for one tiny puddle about the size of the Bridge St. pond. She said the various WAs up the Central Valley all looked just like it, and nobody knew where they'd be getting water. I didn't make it back to either San Jac or Wister last year what with schedules being all fouled up thru the whole season, so I'm looking forward to at least getting a few Wed. refill slots at San Jac if nothing else this year.

Gotta go back and drool over some of your pictures now. Thanks!

Rick C
 
I've got an 870 Express and a Benelli Nova. Both good guns. My son seems to like the Nova just because it's a Benelli, I don't know. They both work. IF I were to buy another low price shotgun right now it would probably be a Winchester SXP. Those seem to be pretty good too.
 
exavid said:
I made a mistake years ago buying a Winchester 1200. The thing had a thick shiny finish on the wood and was great at not quite locking up all the way so your second shot didn't fire. I lived out on the end of civilization at the time so it wasn't practical to send the thing to Winchester. The Mossberg is like an old ford F150, not too pretty but damn functional.
Click to expand...
I have a Winchester 1200, and it works great as long as the magazine cap is on tight :). If it is loose the barrel doesn't seat properly. We all use what we like. My son is a died in the wool Mossberg fan. Oh well, go figger.
gramps
 
gramps said:
I have a Winchester 1200, and it works great as long as the magazine cap is on tight :). If it is loose the barrel doesn't seat properly.
Click to expand...

Hi,

The trap & skeet range I ran for several years started life as a Winchester Public Shooting Center in 1965. I started working there part time after high school in '67, and we had several 1200s furnished by Winchester for rental/loaner guns. When Winchester pulled out of the deal, my first boss bought the range from them along with whatever "stuff" they left. He sold most of those guns before he sold the range, but the new owner got the last remaining one when he took over in about 1980.

It was arguable whether that gun had ever been taken apart for a proper cleaning at that point! So one slow day I did a full cleaning on our various range guns, and the boss' daughter was so impressed with how well that 1200 worked minus a dozen plus years of crud in it, she tried to buy it from her Dad to use as a bird gun!

He didn't sell her the gun, but kept it as a range gun, and it went with the deal when he sold the place in '89. I can't start to count how many 10s of 1000s, perhaps even 100s of 1000s, of rounds that gun had thru it in almost 25 years, and it still worked fine the last I saw it!

Rick C
 
Gramps, That's true but the bottom line is the vast majority of gun that leave the major manufacturers work very well. The luck of the draw is fairly slim. I've had a fair number of guns over the years, probably in the hundreds and I have one gun to send back to the manufacturer.
 
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