My Next Ruger

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Yawn

Blackhawk
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
646
Well, I am looking to purchase another semi, and would like to purchase another Ruger. My SR9 was very much for self-defense, but this next purchase maybe a little multi-faceted.

Warning, I am about to speak about +p ammo! I say this for those of you who loathe it, though most really can't tell me why scientifically. One person even posted on another thread that they carry +p rounds in all of their guns and then later posted that +p adds little difference ballistically. From my research, +p and +P+ do quite a bit ballistically, but as I have said numerous times, I am wanting to be shown data backed proof of truth either way! I am not in love or out of love with +p anything... I am interested in truthful science, not some old guys hate for anything that he considers tacticool!

I have had interest in a Ruger 1911 since I first started shooting pistols. But, because of some people's good comments, and my new look at ballistics, I am a little torn between the just released SR1911 and the SR40 (or soon to be here 40c), and the sr45 (which from the name sr1911, I deduce that the SR45 will still be coming out.) That parethetical note leads to my first statement: (and no, I can't buy both or all...)

- I love the SR9/40 series feel inside and out! The times I have shot and handled 1911's I enjoyed them, but the SR9/40 series almost feel built for my hand. It was my last range trip that solidified this for me. But, I was shooting a Rock Island 1911 and I know that there is much variants in the 1911 world. I want a 1911, but I am just not sure if I want one right now.

- The SR9/40 series price is a better fit for me right now too, but by no means would the 1911 be out of the question. I will pay a little extra for the right gun for me. Then there is the thought about maybe the P345, though I think the safety on that functions backwards from my SR9 and I wouldn't want that. And I think an SR45 won't be out for at least another year.

- I am also now torn though between the next cartridge I want to carry... I have 1000 rounds of 9mm JHP. So I have thought about getting the SR9c to go with my SR9. But, I think I want more power under the hood and so I will want a .40sw or .45acp, something that can handle all in town work and some "woods" work.

- I see the .45ACP as a big bore but easy recoil cartridge, that does accept +p according to SAAMI standards, which is one of the standards the Ruger manual speaks of. (I will admit that their ammunition statement is a bit confusing to me, and confusing most likely because of ignorance on my part. So, maybe what I am about to say below about +p and +P+ loads, isn't an issue in Rugers, but I just don't know nough about NATO and other standards that they mention.)

But as buffalobore.com puts it,

"45ACP+P ammo is externally/dimensionally identical to 45 ACP ammo and can be fired in any 45 acp firearm that is in normal operating condition... The three JHP loads are design for defense against humans, while the two non-expanding loads are designed to shoot through large shoulder bones or the skull on a black bear... These non-expanding bullets also work well if you need to shoot through cover like car doors or stick frame walls. FMJ-FN bullet designs are great for woods carry, where a person may need to shoot a bear or other wildlife that requires deep penetration. I often carry a 45 acp pistol in the woods and when I do the entire magazine and chamber are loaded with FMJ-FN cartridges. "

45 ACP +P Ammo - 255 gr. Hard Cast FN (925 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.)

I have to admit, that is pretty compelling stuff for some decent versatility... and I have found +p for .45acp on the SAAMI form.

This is what Buffalobore.com says about their 40SW +P though...

"There is such a variety of 40 S&W pistols in public use that we will not determine what pistols are compatible with which 40 S&W +P loads - this is your responsibility! We will add that this ammo is safe in pistols that use a fully supported chamber... Glock happens to chamber their 40 S&W pistols without a fully supported chamber... I know of no other 40 S&W handguns being sold in the US that don't have fully supported chambers."

So, would a Ruger handle this ok AND do these rounds meet manual specs? So, I am thinking maybe not the best choice, but look at these numbers!

"Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 180 gr. F.M.J. (1,100 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.)" which is pretty good or "Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 155 gr. (1,300 fps/M.E. 582 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box"" 582 ft. lbs will definitely protect the "pith helmet", though this round is a JHP. The problem is that +P for the 40SW is not listed in SAAMI specs.

Ok, so there it is... and yes, I posted this knowing some will come and do a fly by hating and flaming, but I am willing to push through that nonsense for the diamond in rough wisdom that I know lurks on this website. I don't want a wheel gun! I do want something that can handle the woods (or an organized invasion by Ravenous free thinking bears), and I would really like it to be Ruger... Thanks all!
 

98_1LE

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
345
The plastic pistols are pretty different from a 1911. Both have a place, but I would say if you plan to carry it, get the lighter gun. If it is a home and range gun, go with the 1911.

On the ammo, I worry less about the little extra from +p ammo, more about getting the bullet where it needs to be. After that what the actual projectile does (expansion).

FWIW I use the now discontinued Taurus Hex ammo (same projectile as the Corbon DPX 185gr but in a standard pressure loading) and wish it was still made. I snagged several hundred rounds years ago and am still nursing it.
 

sargents1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
365
Location
Maine
Yawn said:
Well, I am looking to purchase another semi, and would like to purchase another Ruger. My SR9 was very much for self-defense, but this next purchase maybe a little multi-faceted.

Warning, I am about to speak about +p ammo! I say this for those of you who loathe it, though most really can't tell me why scientifically. One person even posted on another thread that they carry +p rounds in all of their guns and then later posted that +p adds little difference ballistically. From my research, +p and +P+ do quite a bit ballistically, but as I have said numerous times, I am wanting to be shown data backed proof of truth either way! I am not in love or out of love with +p anything... I am interested in truthful science, not some old guys hate for anything that he considers tacticool!

I have had interest in a Ruger 1911 since I first started shooting pistols. But, because of some people's good comments, and my new look at ballistics, I am a little torn between the just released SR1911 and the SR40 (or soon to be here 40c), and the sr45 (which from the name sr1911, I deduce that the SR45 will still be coming out.) That parethetical note leads to my first statement: (and no, I can't buy both or all...)

- I love the SR9/40 series feel inside and out! The times I have shot and handled 1911's I enjoyed them, but the SR9/40 series almost feel built for my hand. It was my last range trip that solidified this for me. But, I was shooting a Rock Island 1911 and I know that there is much variants in the 1911 world. I want a 1911, but I am just not sure if I want one right now.

- The SR9/40 series price is a better fit for me right now too, but by no means would the 1911 be out of the question. I will pay a little extra for the right gun for me. Then there is the thought about maybe the P345, though I think the safety on that functions backwards from my SR9 and I wouldn't want that. And I think an SR45 won't be out for at least another year.

- I am also now torn though between the next cartridge I want to carry... I have 1000 rounds of 9mm JHP. So I have thought about getting the SR9c to go with my SR9. But, I think I want more power under the hood and so I will want a .40sw or .45acp, something that can handle all in town work and some "woods" work.

- I see the .45ACP as a big bore but easy recoil cartridge, that does accept +p according to SAAMI standards, which is one of the standards the Ruger manual speaks of. (I will admit that their ammunition statement is a bit confusing to me, and confusing most likely because of ignorance on my part. So, maybe what I am about to say below about +p and +P+ loads, isn't an issue in Rugers, but I just don't know nough about NATO and other standards that they mention.)

But as buffalobore.com puts it,

"45ACP+P ammo is externally/dimensionally identical to 45 ACP ammo and can be fired in any 45 acp firearm that is in normal operating condition... The three JHP loads are design for defense against humans, while the two non-expanding loads are designed to shoot through large shoulder bones or the skull on a black bear... These non-expanding bullets also work well if you need to shoot through cover like car doors or stick frame walls. FMJ-FN bullet designs are great for woods carry, where a person may need to shoot a bear or other wildlife that requires deep penetration. I often carry a 45 acp pistol in the woods and when I do the entire magazine and chamber are loaded with FMJ-FN cartridges. "

45 ACP +P Ammo - 255 gr. Hard Cast FN (925 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.)

I have to admit, that is pretty compelling stuff for some decent versatility... and I have found +p for .45acp on the SAAMI form.

This is what Buffalobore.com says about their 40SW +P though...

"There is such a variety of 40 S&W pistols in public use that we will not determine what pistols are compatible with which 40 S&W +P loads - this is your responsibility! We will add that this ammo is safe in pistols that use a fully supported chamber... Glock happens to chamber their 40 S&W pistols without a fully supported chamber... I know of no other 40 S&W handguns being sold in the US that don't have fully supported chambers."

So, would a Ruger handle this ok AND do these rounds meet manual specs? So, I am thinking maybe not the best choice, but look at these numbers!

"Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 180 gr. F.M.J. (1,100 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.)" which is pretty good or "Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 155 gr. (1,300 fps/M.E. 582 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box"" 582 ft. lbs will definitely protect the "pith helmet", though this round is a JHP. The problem is that +P for the 40SW is not listed in SAAMI specs.

Ok, so there it is... and yes, I posted this knowing some will come and do a fly by hating and flaming, but I am willing to push through that nonsense for the diamond in rough wisdom that I know lurks on this website. I don't want a wheel gun! I do want something that can handle the woods (or an organized invasion by Ravenous free thinking bears), and I would really like it to be Ruger... Thanks all!

That is a long post! I dont think I can really hit all the topics you included but I will try to hit the high points.

About +P ammo. As you probably know, +P means extra pressure. In the case of 9mm the standard 9mm SAAMI pressure is 35,000 PSI and 9mm +p is 38,500 PSI. I am not sure where exactly 9mm NATO comes in, but as I understand it, it is slightly higher than SAAMI spec. Consider 9mm NATO as being a Mild hotload, but not quite +P. Wikipedia has a good write up on +P ammo.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpressure_ammunition)

In practical terms you get a decent boost in performance from +P ammo. typical 9mm Luger gets you around 300ft-lbs of muzzle energy. 9mm+P can boost that to 400ft-lbs or more. That is a Solid 30% increase in power.

As to what this might mean in a life or death encounter...who knows. It might make all the difference or none at all. But if it were me, I want the +P ammo in my gun. You said you wanted data to back up any assertions as to the effectiveness of +P vs Standard SAAMI...I dont know that you can find that data. Its kind of like comparing hollowpoints to FMJ. You are hard pressed to find a shot that is lethal with one that wouldnt be lethal with the other.

If you think you need more power for a woods gun than a 9mm can provide a 40S&W is probably your best bet. As stated in your post there are some manufacturers that make some VERY HOT 40S&W ammo. A modern made gun chambered in .40S&W is going to swallow Buffalo Bore ammo with no issues. If you were to get a Glock and had concerns about chamber support, Lone Wolf Distributors makes aftermarket barrels with much better case support for the Glock 22 (40S&W). Last time I checked they were getting a little over 100$ for one of those barrels. I have one in my Glock 20 and you can read more about it here.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=115038

I would have no worries about putting any ammo by Buffalo Bore or Double Tap thru a Ruger SR40.

Thats about all I have time for today.

Good Luck.
 

planetcat

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
301
Location
U.S.A.
I shoot +P ammo from my Kimber 1911, primarily as a backup while hog hunting. It shoots it fine, and the weight of the pistol absorbs the recoil nicely.

I would just look at the energy numbers for each load you're thinking about getting for "regular" ammo and the hot stuff. When it all boils down, it's really about the energy imparted on the target. As much as I love my 1911, the .45 ACP has mediocre energy for a 230 gr. bullet. I tend to use .357 and .44 mag loads as the benchmark, since I know their knockdown potential. If I can get close to those with non-magnum pistol cartridges (i.e. +P and +P+), I feel pretty safe. Just my .02 on the subject.
 

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