Mini 14 shot stringing, help..

[Jim A C]

I got the new Mini 14 Tactical in .300 Blackout. Put a 1-4x30 Vortex illuminated dot scope on it. I'm Ruger fan but, was skeptical about the minis with all the negative postings on the accuracy. I was ok if I could only get 2-3" groups at 100 yards considering the round and the low power scope. I have no suppressor and I have only shot about 100 rounds through it.

Getting to the concern here. I'm handloading using 125gr. Hornady SSTs with 17.0 gr. of H110. I think the load is good because most if not all cold barrel shots are dead on at 85 yards. If I only wait about 20-30 seconds to fire the 2nd round, it is at least 3" high. The 3rd round will be 6-7" high when shot again in that 20-30 seconds. It seems like if I leave the rifle sit for half hour or more, I'm back to dead on again. So, it appears to be shot stringing badly. What is the remedy for this besides selling it down the road? This Tactical rifle has the heavier barrel to supposedly fix that problem.

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated. I would like to make this thing work but, I won't accept that. Do I have to invest in one of those barrel struts I see talked about?

 

[DGW1949]

I can't help with your "barrel strut" question because I've never used one.
That said though, here's some stuff that I do know:

Bedding, barrel, bullets....those are the 3 accuracy basics.

Things you can't easily do anything about relative to your new Mini:
Ruger's Mini's use a "one size fits all" barrel profile which due to their varying harmonics, obviously can not be "optimum" for all calibers. Plus, add-in that your 1-7" twist aint right for using a 125 bullet while basicaly trying to copy 7.62X39 ballistics (which uses a much slower twist).

Things you can fix:
Properly bed the rifle. If you can't, then have it done. That will do more to reduce stringing than any other thing that I know of.....but bear in mind that the key word is "properly".
Insure that the two halves of the gas block are evenly spaced...and that their 4 screws are equaly torqued to 28-30 inch pounds.
Do whatever you can to let more heat escape from out of the barrel channel.

Hope this helps.

DGW

 

[COSteve]

Deleted

 

[DGW1949]

Perfect Union has a ton of information on the Minis and stringing like that can be helped with better cooling from a Choate HG, adding an Accu-Strut (cooling and harmonics), Wilson 1911 buffers on both the gas port and recoil spring, reducing the gas bushing size, and making sure your gas block halves are square to each other and the screws are tightened equally. Many are using a torque wrench to tighten the gas block screws to between 25-30 in/lbs on a try as you go method to find a sweet spot. With all those fixes and using decent ammo, many are getting significant improvements in group size.

I have a 583 Series 5.56 Ranch Rifle that I added a Accu-Strut, Choate handguard, Wilson buffers, dropped the gas bushing from .100" (stock) to .045", and equally tightened and gapped the gas block. I only shoot my handloaded ammo through it; no junk Commie crap will touch it, and I'm getting 1.5" groups with little to no vertical stringing.

Hey Steve.....Your's reminds me of mine:

582-series blued 'n wood RR.....045 bushing, Wilson (1911) buffer on the rear, Choate guard, and iron sights. I guess the main difference is that mine has been fully bedded and your's has a strut.

As of two days ago, mine's doing 2 MOA with my "best" lot of LC-M193 ammo and a hair under 2-1/2 with M855, which to me means that (like yours) it is shooting to the accurcay potential of the ammo being used. Point being, both are displaying perty-dern good accuracy for an "old school" light weight semi-auto carbine.

Bedding VS a strut?....heck, who cares how the cat get's skint.....just skin it. :lol: .

DGW

 

[COSteve]

Deleted

 

[DGW1949]

With a bedded stock you have got to try handloads, or at least premium commercial ammo. The mil-surp ammo was never meant to be precision.

BTW, did you notice the 'lightening hole' I drilled in the safety lever? Got wild and had to make it look like my M1A. :lol:

Yeah I did notice....nice touch!
I also noticed the shorter length of pull. :wink: .

I agree on the lack of precison relative to milsurp ammo.
Thing is though....I bought this particular Mini-14 strictly for using with milsurp ammo. The only time it see's a shooting bench is when I'm either testing a modification, or testing a different lot of ammo. Other than that...it's all "free hand".

DGW

 

[COSteve]

Deleted

 

[DGW1949]

Hello COSteve.....I've loaded match ammo in the past. Back then though, I was shooting NRA competition with an M1 Garand so I had the need. These days I'm mostly what you might call a recreational shooter, meaning that my needs are quite a bit different....hence the lighter/handier Mini-14 and the Lake City .556 ammo.
In other words, while I agree that handloading would improve it's accuracy compared to what I'm getting now, I'm well satisified with things as they sit. :wink: .

You are also correct about my stock not feeling quite right. And yep, it is better without the rubber pad. I'll probably get around to fixing that before long but as yet, I haven't decided exactly how I want to go about it. What I realy want is a metal butt plate that's got a trap door....so if you have any ideas on that, please let me know.

DGW

 

[Jim A C]

Hey Steve and DGW--

Thanks for the advice. I had the mini out yesterday afternoon and I have renewed faith that I can get the gun to shoot adequately (2-2.5" 5 shot group).

DGW-I think I will work on the accuracy enhancements you suggested. You commented that the 125 gr. pill is a bad match up with the 1-7 twist rate. So, your suggestion is to try heavier bullets then, right?

I have been doing a lot of searches for pet loads for the mini-14 in .300 BLK and there isn't a lot of information out there specifically for that gun, ARs yes but, not Minis. Can anyone offer up their favorite recipe for a deer round? I'm not searching for sub-sonic at this point yet, down the road yes. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Jim

 

[DGW1949]

Hello Jim......

I'm certainly no expert on the .300 AAC BO cartridge but what I do know is that there seems to be a lot of folks who seem to have accuracy problems with it.....which I personaly think relates directly to the various guns for which it is chambered having a 1-7 twist.
Just as point of comparison, most all 7.62X39 rifles have either a 1-9.5 or 1-10 twist rate, both of which have been proven to work perty-dern good relative to stabilizing a 123 grn .30 cal projectile being launched at the velocity range it shares with the 300 BO.

You asked about trying a heavier bullet. Perhaps that will help with accuracy...I really dunno.
What I do know is that t'were it me, I'd be working under the assumption that a 150 grn bullet is about all that little BO case is going to handle relative to using Ruger's Mini-BO as a reliable deer-getter.....and even then, given the velocity range that 150 hunting bullets are designed to work within, it's going to be a rather short range proposition.

Wish I could be of more help, but that's about all I know.
If you want an expert opinion, you might try asking one of the tech guys here:
http://www.sierrabullets.com/ask-sierra/talk-to-a-tech/

DGW

 

[Chuckfish]

Perfect Union has a ton of information on the Minis and stringing like that can be helped with better cooling from a Choate HG, adding an Accu-Strut (cooling and harmonics), Wilson 1911 buffers on both the gas port and recoil spring, reducing the gas bushing size, and making sure your gas block halves are square to each other and the screws are tightened equally. Many are using a torque wrench to tighten the gas block screws to between 25-30 in/lbs on a try as you go method to find a sweet spot. With all those fixes and using decent ammo, many are getting significant improvements in group size.

I have a 583 Series 5.56 Ranch Rifle that I added a Accu-Strut, Choate handguard, Wilson buffers, dropped the gas bushing from .100" (stock) to .045", and equally tightened and gapped the gas block. I only shoot my handloaded ammo through it; no junk Commie crap will touch it, and I'm getting 1.5" groups with little to no vertical stringing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/Coloradoglocker/IMG_6823_zpsp8yex9b4

.jpg[/quote

Where did you get the parts to modify your rifle?

 

[COSteve]

Deleted

 

[Chief_10Beers]

Perfect Union has a ton of information on the Minis and stringing like that can be helped with better cooling from a Choate HG, adding an Accu-Strut (cooling and harmonics), Wilson 1911 buffers on both the gas port and recoil spring, reducing the gas bushing size, and making sure your gas block halves are square to each other and the screws are tightened equally. Many are using a torque wrench to tighten the gas block screws to between 25-30 in/lbs on a try as you go method to find a sweet spot. With all those fixes and using decent ammo, many are getting significant improvements in group size.

I have a 583 Series 5.56 Ranch Rifle that I added a Accu-Strut, Choate handguard, Wilson buffers, dropped the gas bushing from .100" (stock) to .045", and equally tightened and gapped the gas block. I only shoot my handloaded ammo through it; no junk Commie crap will touch it, and I'm getting 1.5" groups with little to no vertical stringing.

Hey Steve.....Your's reminds me of mine:

582-series blued 'n wood RR.....045 bushing, Wilson (1911) buffer on the rear, Choate guard, and iron sights. I guess the main difference is that mine has been fully bedded and your's has a strut.

As of two days ago, mine's doing 2 MOA with my "best" lot of LC-M193 ammo and a hair under 2-1/2 with M855, which to me means that (like yours) it is shooting to the accurcay potential of the ammo being used. Point being, both are displaying perty-dern good accuracy for an "old school" light weight semi-auto carbine.

Bedding VS a strut?....heck, who cares how the cat get's skint.....just skin it. :lol: .

DGW

That a spitting image of my Mini-14........................

Mini-14_02-01-2015_a by John Nelson, on Flickr

 

[COSteve]

Deleted

 

[Chief_10Beers]

Devil's in the details. For instance, I painted my Choate HG brown, I have a SOCOM length Accu-Strut vs your Mo-Rod, my sling is a cotton M1 Carbine, and I've got a Mini 200 rear sight instead of the stock one. Also, you've got a nicer looking stock than mine and for some reason, mine came with a stainless steel trigger and hammer. Did you refinish the stock Ruger birch one or is that a walnut aftermarket one?

That's a Ruger stock for the 580 Mini, when I bought in 09, the specs listed it as a Walnut Stock, that is how it came with the Rifle. I've been meaning to replace the rear sight with the Mini 200, just haven't got around to it yet. How do you like that sight?............................

 

[DGW1949]

I'n not COSteve but in my estimation, the TechSight (MINI200) is a vast improvement over that piece of crap that Ruger uses.

Stuff to note:
The Techsight uses a smaller aperture than the Ruger sight, and it sits closer to your eye.
TechSight sells an adjustment tool for the knobs, but adjustments can be done with a bullet tip.
Due to Ruger's crappy (single screw) sight mount, neither sight will stay put under hard use, so be prepaired to remedy that. Some folks say that using blue Loctite on the screw(s) solvled their "sight shoots loose" problem but that alone didn't work for me relative to long term use with M855 ammo.

Hope this helped.

DGW

 

[Chief_10Beers]

I'n not COSteve but in my estimation, the TechSight (MINI200) is a vast improvement over that piece of crap that Ruger uses.

Stuff to note:
The Techsight uses a smaller aperture than the Ruger sight, and it sits closer to your eye.
TechSight sells an adjustment tool for the knobs, but adjustments can be done with a bullet tip.
Due to Ruger's crappy (single screw) sight mount, neither sight will stay put under hard use, so be prepaired to remedy that. Some folks say that using blue Loctite on the screw(s) solvled their "sight shoots loose" problem but that alone didn't work for me relative to long term use with M855 ammo.

Hope this helped.

DGW

You can try Red or Green Loc-Tite if you never plan to remove the Rear Sight.........................

 

[rufrdr]

I found that the four enhancements I did to my series 186 shrunk the 100 yd groups to the 10 ring on a NRA military style target and kept them there even after 100 rounds through the tube in a fairly short period of time:

1. Tech sight
2. John Masen combo front sight and muzzle brake
3. SoCom Accu-strut
4. Choate slotted handguard

The improved sights are half the battle in getting better accuracy. The muzzle brake and accu-strut combine to dampen barrel whipping. The handguard looks cool and helps to dissipate heat from the barrel. Moving the sling from the gas tube assembly may help in stopping groups to shift when using the sling to steady the rifle.

 

[daveg.inkc]

my AR-556 shoots like that. My Mini Ranch shoots very well. Im to the poiunt I wish I had not bought it.