Mail Theft / Mail Fraud

[Montelores]

Short version: 1) Thieves steal mail from USPS mailboxes (not home mailboxes, but the big blue boxes at post office locations), 2) thieves open mail, 3) thieves "wash" checks (literally wash the check in a washing machine to remove writing), 4) thieves re-write check to selves, then 5) thieves cash check for large amount, draining your account.

My takeaway: Don't mail paper checks, use electronic transfers / bill pay / bank websites.

Check your on-line bank statements frequently.

Monty

https://news.yahoo.com/25-investigates-mail-stolen-collection-210608099.html
https://abc7chicago.com/mail-fraud-report-theft-los-angeles-ca-money-laundering/12308346/

 

[Jeepnik]

Whether you use paper checks or electronic payments there are folks looking to steal your money. The only reasonably safe method is face to face cash transfer with proper receipts. And even then there are folks that will stick a gun in your face and take your cash.

 

[blammer]

Agree. That's why if it's important and I need to physically mail it, I actually go inside post office and mail in their dropoff there.

And when they catch the thieves, throw them in federal jail for a few years and take whatever you can from them in restitution.

 

[Montelores]

Whether you use paper checks or electronic payments there are folks looking to steal your money. The only reasonably safe method is face to face cash transfer with proper receipts. And even then there are folks that will stick a gun in your face and take your cash.

This won't work with most commercial transactions. Utilities, taxes, etc.

Electronic payments, bank bill pay, on-line banking.

Some of the older generation can't make the switch, I understand, but ALL large business transactions are electronic.

Monty

 

[Jeepnik]

I guess my point wasn’t clear. Life is full of risks. Nothing is fool proof. Worry about things you can actually effect.

 

[hittman]

I try to avoid electronic financial transactions like the plague.

There’s a price to be paid for convenience. That price is getting hacked. You’re WAY WAY more likely to get “hacked” on line than have someone steal your check from a postal box. That practice became darn near extinct 15 years ago.

I worked in the credit and collection and ID theft worlds for a few decades. My opinion isn’t popular, I know. But it is the safest bet for me and my family.

Some years ago my friend Bill had his Discover Card hacked. He used it for EVERYTHING since he got something like 1% cash back. He found about the hack when he got in the mail a notice that his mortgage payment was delinquent. I told Bill to get a new card, call your creditors and have then use the new CC number. He complained that he had 37 creditors to call. He would have to look up their phone numbers, his account numbers with each, it will take a few days to get his new card, and on and on ….. you get the picture. Lotta manual labor, lots of stress and a day unpaid off work.

 

[Montelores]

So it sounds like the problem was his credit card?

Not electronic transactions?

Monty

P. S. Electronic, on-line banking allows instant monitoring of one's accounts. Not trying to be argumentative, but one is able to make an on-line transaction (mortgage payment, for instance), and see it completed, with a reference number for tracking and the account change immediately registered.

If one sets up "automatic" payments and doesn't monitor them, that's another story.

 

[hittman]

No, not the credit cards fault. Either Bill or one of his 37 creditors or one of their thousands of employees or one of their processors lost ( by getting hacked ), stole or sold his data.

 

[AJGUNNER]

I personally go with the longer version. I park, get out of the car, walk inside the PO to drop the mail into a slot that goes directly into the bin inside the PO. Some might ask why not just pull up to the big blue box to drop and drive on. As the youngest of 3 boys and years of hanging around with other neighborhood boys, I saw with my own eyes some of the things that got deposited in those blue boxes. From water balloons, to eggs, to cats, and those are a few of the milder items. I can't say that todays boys do these things, but the thoughts from my youth still prevents me from using the blue boxes.

 

[hittman]

Monty, the good news is since Bill had that problem there’s a whole host of new laws and rules and regulations the banks and credit card company’s must follow. Now they’re aware of “red flags” and legally obligated to act on them.

For myself, I’m enrolled in a monitoring program I’m confident will alert me if there is a problem. And, I use local credit unions and banks for my credit cards. Makes your life so much easier if there is a problem to be able to call or visit in person someone in your town; as opposed to getting a call center in God-knows-where.

 

[buckaroo]

eh Monte, lets cut to chase here shall we. The game is to go to a cashless society and of course paperless. Nothing is secure online !
And they will not spend the money to make it safe. I got nailed twice this year using my debit card, one bogus charge was for .99 cents through the Google playstore of which I have never used. Then I find out that these bogus charges have been going on for over 4 years and Google refuses to address it.

I was lucky to have spotted it by accident on my bank statement, doesn't sound like much but how many haven't caught it.
It ain't just Russian hackers, we have hackers inside.

 

[Montelores]

No, not the credit cards fault. Either Bill or one of his 37 creditors or one of their thousands of employees or one of their processors lost ( by getting hacked ), stole or sold his data.

Again, not being argumentative, just trying to understand.

All of this occurred on a single credit card?

It sounds like he had a substantial business.

It's also important to remember that even though you (someone) might choose not to participate in electronic payments, transfers, on-line banking, the rest of the world does participate.

Your credit card. Your bank deposit. Your checking or savings account. Your paycheck. Your mortgage payment. Your bank withdrawal.

It's all electronic, digital, on-line.

Monty

P. S. I just read your response, and I agree.

 

[Montelores]

eh Monte, lets cut to chase here shall we. The game is to go to a cashless society and of course paperless. Nothing is secure online !
And they will not spend the money to make it safe. I got nailed twice this year using my debit card, one bogus charge was for .99 cents through the Google playstore of which I have never used. Then I find out that these bogus charges have been going on for over 4 years and Google refuses to address it.

I was lucky to have spotted it by accident on my bank statement, doesn't sound like much but how many haven't caught it.
It ain't just Russian hackers, we have hackers inside.

Often, the small charge (0.99) is a test, to see if the account is valid.

It's then followed up with a BIG charge.

Regardless of the "game," (not sure that I agree - business uses electronic transactions because it's cheaper, that's the driving impetus) someone who can view their account on-line, in real time, doesn't need to wait 30 days for a paper statement.

Monty (with a "y")

 

[Montelores]

I guess my point wasn’t clear. Life is full of risks. Nothing is fool proof. Worry about things you can actually effect.

I would think that we can agree that making smart choices in one's life will generally have an "effect."

Monty

 

[hittman]

Yes, Monty my friend was a successful businessman. There’s nothing wrong with what HE did but he never understood the potential problems he faced if the card was hacked. Out of sight / out of mind works for many but not for ME and not with MY finances.

Yes, I fight the “progress” of electronic payment and electronic money every chance I get.

But I’m glad so many buy-in. Kept me in business for 40 years.

 

[hittman]

can view their account on-line, in real time, doesn't need to wait 30 days for a paper statement.

You’d be surprised at how many people DON’T check …. Until there’s a problem.

 

[hittman]

And for full disclosure …. YES ….. I have had my credit card hacked a couple of times too. It was due to the processor getting hacked and losing my data. Both times a rep from my local bank or credit union called me.

Last time it happened about 10 years ago, Melissa called and asked if I was at work. I said yes, why do you ask. She said well I guess you can’t be in Illinois at the same time you’re buying $900 worth of tires in Atlanta, GA. She rejected the transaction and mailed me a new card with new account number.

So … it can and does happen to all of us.

 

[buckaroo]

Regardless of the "game," (not sure that I agree - business uses electronic transactions because it's cheaper.

Of course it's cheaper, that's why they are doing it. And who can fight a Google right. Let's reiterate something here, those hackers inside, they work for a Google.

 

[Dave P.]

I try to avoid electronic financial transactions like the plague.

There’s a price to be paid for convenience. That price is getting hacked. You’re WAY WAY more likely to get “hacked” on line than have someone steal your check from a postal box. That practice became darn near extinct 15 years ago.

I'd suspect it's much more likely to have the post office themselves, loose, eat, or miss-deliver it, than either getting stolen or an electronic transfer getting hacked. I've posted before about receiving other's mail on a regular basis.

 

[Fox Mike]

My takeaway: Don't mail paper checks, use electronic transfers

I mail paper checks all the time. I put them in my rural mailbox or drop them off at the PO. MY 'takeaway' from what you said was don't use the big blue boxes.

 

[kmoore]

I have seen this theft and fraud mentioned in post #1 since around 1993, I though all checks nowadays have water proof marks that ended the washing of checks many years ago. Washing checks was done using photo processing chemicals. But after 39 years of being a cop. I learned that as thieves find a way to steal, they do. They share or sell the methods. Banks in this case take time to find a way to stop it and do or lower the problem so it's not common.
Just like counterfeit money, checks have also been copied on printers. Banks, I think stopped that with counter measures.
Then Thieves being thieves find another way to steal your money. If you stop using checks and just use Credit cards, will guess what. You have people at restaurants or other places that make a copy of your card without you knowing. Sell the data, some go over seas and new credit cards are made, brought back to the US and used. With the WWW, they can sit in any country and spend your money.
Then we have bank workers who are thieves who get your information and sell it.
Then we have people who put a thing called a skimmer inside ATMs they also place hidden cameras nearby. Your card data is copied without anyone else knowing. They see the pad and copy your code. They remove the skimmers, match up the camera to the exact time your card was used. They make a card with your data and have your code and buy stuff.
When all that is to hard for a thieve they hang out where ATMs are and rob people after they get a withdraw.
There are many more ways that I know how people steal your money and likely many I do not know.
Big blue boxes get broke into, some really get removed and opened. Others steal the mail carriers vehicles. I have seen all that. In coming mail to your house is stolen as much as out going.

 

[Danjet500]

There have been at least two instances of "check washing" in our area recently. They advised if sending checks by mail to use the box inside the post office if possible.

 

[hittman]

Most criminals are animals of convenience. Well, they’re lazy or have addiction problems which is why they steal.
Washing checks is too time consuming for most.
Not saying it doesn’t happen just that there are bigger fish to fry.

 

[Kevin]

My wife got a letter in the mail from the bank which underwrites PayPal credit cards.

Her application for a credit card was denied because of lack of identification.

Only she never applied for a PayPal credit card, and doesn’t even have a PayPal account online.

She is now a believer in the system. That they are doing some good to stop this sort of activity.

We have several bank accounts and wire transfer money between them regularly. The only check I write is once a month the guy who mows my lawn.

And just a thought. If we did move to a cashless society. How should that affect you personally? I don’t think it would impact me at all. And another question to ask? Would it be a bad thing? How so?

 

[buckaroo]

Kevin, stay far away from PayPal if you can avoid it.

And another question to ask? Would it be a bad thing? How so?

Not until you understand how America operates. We have ……. down to a science now, it use to be only a religion. Democracy is a myth. And that so called 'American Dream' is only while you sleep.

 

[Kevin]

Kevin, stay far away from PayPal if you can avoid it.

I’ve actually had good experiences with PayPal. They saved me from a potentially fraudulent purchase a while back.

 

[Dan in MI]

M How should that affect you personally? I don’t think it would impact me at all. And another question to ask? Would it be a bad thing? How so?

1) multiple types of sales and purchases between individuals

2) yes

3) You have ZERO control of your money. The bank/CC company/gov't have the control.

Just look at the truckers in Canada last year. The gov't locked their accounts basically starving them to force them to leave the protest.
You get accused of xyz they lock up your funds. Now you have no money to fight.
The opposing political group gains control. You are on the wrong side. They mess with your funds.

It's the same as the IRS freezing your accounts for overdue taxes and then charging you interest since you don't. All the while the funds to pay them are locked up.

 

[buckaroo]

I’ve actually had good experiences with PayPal.

So did I until this year. I've had to replace my debit card twice this year. We have absolutely no protections out here, and if they hack a debit card you are wiped out. My bank told me to never use a debit card again online to only use a credit card and they taught me how to check for card readers at the self check out at Walmart. Something smells in Denmark as they say. A lot of fraudulent emails coming in from PayPal.

We are going to try and narrow it down, I'm only going to use my debit card for in town shopping.

 

[hittman]

I have a low tolerance level when it comes to getting my accounts hacked. It was probably 15 years ago my PayPal account got hacked twice in about a year. Oh, and PayPal admitted it was THEIR fault. Then shortly after that, PayPal began demanding I give them my entire credit card number, 3 digit code, etc. in order to keep the account. I passed.

Oh, and your “fraudulent emails coming in from PayPal” are not from PayPal …. They’re phishing.

 

[kmoore]

debit cards are not a bad way to shop. Just don't let the card leave you, use ATMs at locations where someone cannot install a skimmer and hidden camera. (inside a bank or store) The crooks will put skimmers in them at night or when no one is around at places outside. Yea, the bank has them on video but by the time they review the camera data the crook likely removed the skimmer. A skimmer is inserted into the card slot, it has a memory card type thing on it, when your card passes over it it reads your strip of data. You never see it or know. Older skimmers were placed on the opening and easy to see. After a few hours they remove the skimmer with a skim Jim type tool. If your lucky the bank will call you monday about unusual activity.
While typing this I got a email from amazon "unusual activity from Falkland Islands" Followed by to restore your account click XXXXX. That's all a scam.