Love of the 357 Mag

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vlavalle

Single-Sixer
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Apr 10, 2022
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Chandler, AZ
I got the feel from reading the article that it was a good selling tool for S&W.
I believe a lot of things expressed would be true, especially back in the late 1939s, but not so today. The .357 mag would now be the MINIMUM caliber to take hunting. And while is quite capable in most cases stated, when it gets to Kodiak and Polar Bears, I think I could find a better choice. The bigger the bore and faster the RIGHT bullet, the better the kill.
Interesting read and thanks for posting.

big-bore-revolver-calibers-01.jpg
Where is this pic from? I would like to identify each cartridge, and put this into my ballistics file.
 

vlavalle

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2022
Messages
276
Location
Chandler, AZ
I used to do 90% of my handgun hunting with a .357 and 180gr cast pushed as hard as possible. I killed a truck load of deer and pigs with it and it always "worked" though blood trails were often spotty or non-existent. My love ended with a large mule deer buck a few years ago that proved a definitive lack of energy transfer and penetration when things aren't "perfect. There is still no better round for 2 legged vermin but for game, even the diminutive 44spl trounces all over the big "magnum".
Wildcd76, I have to disagree with you regarding your comment on the 44 Sp delivering more power than the ,357 Mag. The .44 Sp max's out in my ballistics file (available to all, in PDF format) at 645 ft. lbs. of ME (Grizzly ammo), and the .357 max's out at 907 ft. lbs (PPU), which is 50 % MORE! The .44 Mag is a completely different story! Also, the .41 Mag max's out at 1,152, so this caliber is better (more powerful) than the .357 Mag.
 

Rock185

Bearcat
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Sep 14, 2013
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The Great Southwest
vlavalle, The last 357/9mm Blackhawk I had, a stainless, was a few years ago. It was a Lipseys run, IIRC. Nothing wrong with it, but I must have sold or traded it when some other shiny object caught my eye;)
 

willicd76

Bearcat
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Feb 25, 2023
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TEXAS
Wildcd76, I have to disagree with you regarding your comment on the 44 Sp delivering more power than the ,357 Mag. The .44 Sp max's out in my ballistics file (available to all, in PDF format) at 645 ft. lbs. of ME (Grizzly ammo), and the .357 max's out at 907 ft. lbs (PPU), which is 50 % MORE! The .44 Mag is a completely different story! Also, the .41 Mag max's out at 1,152, so this caliber is better (more powerful) than the .357 Mag.
Handguns dont kill by high velocity energy transfer like a high powered rifle does. Thats a hydrostatic shock that handguns just dont posses. How many animals have you killed with a 357? Ive killed dozens myself and know what its capable of vs other cartridges. Dont rely on a computer program for all of your knowledge.
 

vlavalle

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2022
Messages
276
Location
Chandler, AZ
Handguns dont kill by high velocity energy transfer like a high powered rifle does. Thats a hydrostatic shock that handguns just dont posses. How many animals have you killed with a 357? Ive killed dozens myself and know what its capable of vs other cartridges. Dont rely on a computer program for all of your knowledge.
Sorry, but ft. lbs is pretty much the whole story when it comes to power, so your high velocity idea does not really hold water. Velcotiy is already taken iinto account when establishing/calculating the ft. lbs. ( the power). But there are other things that impact knock down power besides the power of a round. Of course, placement is #1, then the penetration factor (which could have to do with the bullet type), then the bore (size of the hole/danage and its expandability, then hard cast vs. soft lead/metal).
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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"Sorry, but ft. lbs is pretty much the whole story when it comes to power, so your high velocity idea does not really hold water. Velcotiy is already taken iinto account when establishing/calculating the ft. lbs. ( the power). But there are other things that impact knock down power besides the power of a round. Of course, placement is #1, then the penetration factor (which could have to do with the bullet type), then the bore (size of the hole/danage and its expandability, then hard cast vs. soft lead/metal)."

I may be sorry I'm posting,,, but I'm gonna add a bit.

Energy, or as noted, "ft lbs" isn't the whole story. Even in your post,, you allude to bullet placement, penetration factor, (bullet type) bore size, hole damage, hard cast vs soft metal.

Energy is just ONE of the factors to consider when shooting an animal. It is not the whole story. A .300 Win Mag will most often zip right through a deer w/o nearly as much damage as a 30-30 Win when the same bullet is used. Too much energy/velocity is wasted in the .300. Yet, shoot a cape buffalo with a 30-30 and a .300 Win mag, (same bullet) & the .300 will do much better. The medium (animal) has changed.

Yet, our own member here, "sixshot" went on an african safari in 2021 and killed game with JUST a handgun. In fact, a .45 Colt.
The differences are how you combine ALL the factors TOGETHER to get the performance needed for a specific application.

In your comparison of .357 & .44 Spl above, you point to the superiority of the .357 based upon ft lbs of energy. Yet,, having been a handgun hunter for decades with hundreds of handgun kills under my belt, I was helping a friend try & get his cow elk years ago. I was packing a .44 Spl, and even the guide was comfortable in my choice. I would have not considered using a .357 as a back-up for elk. (Oh, and on that hunt, almost all of us were handgunners. Only one was using a rifle, in 30-06. There were handguns in 7x30 Waters, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, & .41 mag. Distances from a bit over 50 yds to about 156 yds. All but one of those had pretty much instant, one shot drop in the tracks kills. The 30-06 shooter made a solid kill shot, but the elk ran several hundred yds, and we lost her until the next day. The one handgun elk that didn't drop immediately was being shot with a .44 mag. Bullet placement played a big part here.)
I could relate a book full of factual stories of handgun hunters who've proven the abilities of various calibers, bullet weights, bullet designs, bullet materials, velocities, energy levels etc.
My point is this, simply put,, ft lbs of energy is but ONE of the many things to consider when selecting a caliber, for a specific purpose. It's not the whole story.
 

bisleyfan41

Blackhawk
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Jul 13, 2007
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People's Republic of Maryland
Sorry, but ft. lbs is pretty much the whole story when it comes to power, so your high velocity idea does not really hold water. Velcotiy is already taken iinto account when establishing/calculating the ft. lbs. ( the power). But there are other things that impact knock down power besides the power of a round. Of course, placement is #1, then the penetration factor (which could have to do with the bullet type), then the bore (size of the hole/danage and its expandability, then hard cast vs. soft lead/metal).
I am a big fan of the 357 and have killed quite a few deer with it. So I'm not a 357 basher. I actually like hunting deer with it.

But ft/lbs is most definitely NOT the whole story, nor even most of the story. Ft/lbs is a useless, arbitrary number that some idiotic game departments still cling to as a benchmark to qualify or disqualify certain rounds for game use.

Bullet placement, shape, composition, design, distance to impact, angle of impact, and even velocity matter way more than muzzle energy. Knockdown power really doesn't mean anything either.
 

jban357

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
16
I agree on, the 357 is a good round. It was my first centerfire handgun years ago. I have been trying to thin down the herd lately, but I can never pick one of them to go. I also have no problem deer hunting with one.
 

Paul B

Hunter
Joined
Dec 4, 1999
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Tucson, AZ
I like the .357 Mag. I also like the .44 Spl., .44 mag. and the Colt .45 loaded up to John Linebaugh levels.
On energy, there isn't all that much energy from a .22 LR yet I've taken a few deer with the .22. (Don't ask) One shot properly placed did the trick. I no longer even bother looking up energy figures for a specific cartridge, My concern is how deeply will it penetrate to reach the vitals and after doing that, will it exit to permit a good blood trail should one be necessary?
There have been many formulas worked up with foot pounds probably being the most popular. Then there is the pounds/feet formula favored by non-other than Elmer Keith. African elephant poacher had his K.O formula which determined what bullet from what gun would knock out an elephant long enough to put in a killing shot. None of them really mean squat. What is important is will that bullet you chose penetrate well enough to touch the life?
Someone said the .44 Spl. was better than the .357 Mag. I'm inclined to agree, that .44 caliber bullet may not be moving all that fast but it's like haveing you car hit by an 18 wheeler vs your car being hit with a VW beetle; both vehicles moving a 10 MPH. Which will do the most damage. Allow 25 MPH for the VW and keep the 18 wheeler at ten MPH and the 18 wheeler will still do more damage. Same principle with the .357 vs the .44 SPL.
Paul B.
 
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vlavalle

Single-Sixer
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Chandler, AZ
.41 Remington Mag ·.44 Remington Mag ·.454 Casull ·.480 Ruger ·.460 S&W ·.500 Wyoming Express ·.500 Linebaugh

My research shows that the .500 Wyoming Express ammo is no longer manufactured. I was going to add this caliber to my ammo/ballistics file, but there is no point now.
 
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Well I don't hunt, but I appreciate the 357 for the variety of different hand load's available. Compared to say the 41 Magnum that doesn't have so many.

And to go along with the variety of loads, there's a great variety of revolvers. The last 357 revolver I bought was a Stainless 4 5/8th Blackhawk last summer.
 

vlavalle

Single-Sixer
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Apr 10, 2022
Messages
276
Location
Chandler, AZ
Well I don't hunt, but I appreciate the 357 for the variety of different hand load's available. Compared to say the 41 Magnum that doesn't have so many.

And to go along with the variety of loads, there's a great variety of revolvers. The last 357 revolver I bought was a Stainless 4 5/8th Blackhawk last summer.
Yes, the .357 Mag and .45 Colt has the greatest variety in ammo. I qalso hae a .357 Bkackhawk in 6 1/2" barrel. Mine is Blued, and over 50 years old! If you would like to see and get a copy of my ammo file, with ballistics info for 35 handgun calibers and 25 rifle ones, just message me and I will send you a copy (PDF file). Of course, I have lots of .357 Mag entries (over 200)! Each entry links to a website that sells that ammo.
 
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