How would Ruger build a Mossberg 500?

[steveodtw]

In responding to SWR's post on Mossberg 500 recommendation, (http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=250108, I started to wonder how Ruger would build a Model 500 equivalent. Ruger seems to often be toying with the idea of re-entering the shotgun market, hiring designers, engineers. Just curious what Ruger fans think a Ruger workhorse shotgun should be.

 

[DGW1949]

The Mossberg is a time-proven shot gun that's made about as cheap as a reliable SG can be made. When I consider that one can catch the Maverick version on sale for under $200 (and probably shoot it for the rest of their life), I really don't think that they've got much to worry about from Ruger, or anyone else for that matter.

But hey...I'm just a dumb ole country boy, so what do I know? :lol: .

DGW

 

[GunnyGene]

Companies that go to far afield from their core competency usually end up regretting it. Ruger's is revolvers.

 

[jjas]

I don't see enough margin in a pump gun for Ruger to try and enter that market.

They may eventually build a semi-auto, but even that may prove to be a tough market considering the number of semi-auto shotguns out already.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Companies that go to far afield from their core competency usually end up regretting it. Ruger's is revolvers.

Hi,

Yup. If they've got money to hire engineers, it would be better spent on some QC guys to work on sending out the best Ruger revolvers possible, and give that famous "customer service" department (aka "the rebuild shop") some rest.

As to competing in the pump (or auto, for that matter) shotgun market, there are plenty of big dogs out there who are hard to run with, and Ruger's just a puppy who's gonna end up winded and lying under the porch.

Rick C

 

[Jimbo357mag]

As to competing in the pump (or auto, for that matter) shotgun market, there are plenty of big dogs out there who are hard to run with, and Ruger's just a puppy who's gonna end up winded and lying under the porch.

Not to be contrary but isn't that what they said about Ruger getting into the AR and 1911 markets?

Companies that go to far afield from their core competency usually end up regretting it. Ruger's is revolvers.

Don't they sell a lot of semi-auto handguns and rifles as well?

 

[mac66]

Ruger's whole thing is rugged, reliable and affordable. I have no doubt that if they brought out a home defense or sporting shotgun people would buy it over a Mossberg simply because it was a Ruger. Maybe even over a Remington since they've gone down hill in quality since being bought up by a big conglomerate.

So yeah Ruger, come out with an Ruger American Shotgun and grab a share of the market.

 

[GunnyGene]

I'm sure that Ruger has thought about it, and would have the technical capability to do it. The issue is whether the market will support another player. It would be a significant investment & Ruger is a public company. The shareholders will insist on a decent profit margin, so that would be the primary concern for the company.

That said, if the world stopped spinning and we got rid of the NFA, maybe Ruger could be the first to market with a low cost, reliable, select fire, low recoil shotgun line. :mrgreen:

 

[hittman]

As to competing in the pump (or auto, for that matter) shotgun market, there are plenty of big dogs out there who are hard to run with, and Ruger's just a puppy who's gonna end up winded and lying under the porch.

Not to be contrary but isn't that what they said about Ruger getting into the AR and 1911 markets?

Companies that go to far afield from their core competency usually end up regretting it. Ruger's is revolvers.

Don't they sell a lot of semi-auto handguns and rifles as well?

I agree with Jimbo ..... I was one of those shaking my head in 2010 about Ruger making a 1911. Now they offer 20-plus different models .... just of the 1911! :shock:

Whether Ruger copies the design of the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 .... it'll likely sell well because it's a Ruger.

Remember though, I'm the same genius who couldn't see the fascination with a single shot rifle either. Thank God I never sent a resume to a gun manufacturer! :lol:

 

[pete44ru]

.

Just my $0.02, but I think that Ruger should give a combination rifle/shotgun a hard look.

Market-wise:

The evergreen Savage 24 is defunct, and it's replacement (Model 42) is repugnant to most combi owners that had Model 24's.

The Chiappa Double Beaver, however, is a viable competitor that unfortunately is made by a foreign company that has some baggage in it's past (Armi Sport), and is currently priced 50% less than the Savage 42 - but is so far only made in .22LR or .22WMR & .410, and has zeroing issues with the factory fiber-optic sights.

IMO, a scope-compatible combination gun in 20ga or 12ga, combined with CF barrel's chambered for useful/small cartridges (like the .17 & .22 Hornets, the .256 Win Mag, & the .357 Rem Mag), and retailing (arguably) for about $500 (+/-) would be a winner.

.

 

[mac66]

.

Just my $0.02, but I think that Ruger should give a combination rifle/shotgun a hard look.

Market-wise:

The evergreen Savage 24 is defunct, and it's replacement (Model 42) is repugnant to most combi owners that had Model 24's.

The Chiappa Double Beaver, however, is a viable competitor that unfortunately is made by a foreign company that has some baggage in it's past (Armi Sport), and is currently priced 50% less than the Savage 42 - but is so far only made in .22LR or .22WMR & .410, and has zeroing issues with the factory fiber-optic sights.

IMO, a scope-compatible combination gun in 20ga or 12ga, combined with CF barrel's chambered for useful/small cartridges (like the .17 & .22 Hornets, the .256 Win Mag, & the .357 Rem Mag), and retailing (arguably) for about $500 (+/-) would be a winner.

.

I don't think there is a very big or sustaining market for combo guns. They are kind of a novelty or niche thing. Pump and/or semi auto shotguns continue to sell year in and year out despite the fact that fewer people hunt. Most are now sold for home/self defense. Just look at all the cheap imported shotguns that are coming into the country from Turkey etc. Ruger needs to get on the band wagon and come out with an American made,
Ruger American Shotgun. I certainly would buy one over any import or even a Moss 500 or Rem 870 which I already have.

 

[gunzo]

As to competing in the pump (or auto, for that matter) shotgun market, there are plenty of big dogs out there who are hard to run with, and Ruger's just a puppy who's gonna end up winded and lying under the porch.

Not to be contrary but isn't that what they said about Ruger getting into the AR and 1911 markets?

Keep in mind that when Ruger entered the 1911 market, 1911's were as popular as they had ever been. Ruger would have had to release a total dud to bomb there. Actually, they did rather well IMO.
When they entered the lower price point AR market, the platform was experiencing gangbuster sales. People that had never even owed a gun in the past were buying AR's. AR's of any brand were flying off the shelves. A year ago, Larry, Curly, & Moe could have sold AR's. This year or the next 4 could be stagnate for sales of certain types of firearms. Pump shotguns included.

With that said, & to the original post, my guess is, that Ruger would reverse engineer or clone a Mossberg, make few "revolutionary" changes, add some more plastic parts, stamp their logo on it, & sell some, on their name if nothing else. Not bashing Ruger, that's just marketing.

FWIW, Remington made the 10 millionth 870 in 1999 according to one report I read, Mossberg announced their 10 millionth in 2013.

 

[Snake45]

Why would Ruger want to copy the Mossberg 500, the second best pump gun on the market? Why not copy the Rem 870 and make whatever updates and improvements they deem necessary?

870 barrel compatibility would seem to be a huge asset in such a market.

 

[mac66]

I don't think Ruger needs to clone or copy either the 500 or 870, they are smart enough to design their own pump, it's not rocket science. They've built up a very big loyal customer base through their handguns and ARs. Those people would buy Ruger shotguns if given the chance.

 

[Cordite]

The Mossberg 500 and Rem 870 tooling and machinery has been paid for long ago. The Mossberg and Remington just need to keep the machinery maintained and their costs remain low. For Ruger to break into the pump gun market they would need to buy new tooling and machinery which would have to be supported by sufficient sales. Big capex and big risk. Ruger could go the licensing route and pay an off-shore maker to make branded shotguns. That would probably not go well as the build and parts quality would be hard to maintain and the shipping costs / duties would be a factor. All of this adds up to a no-go for pump shotguns.

My unsolicited opinion is that Ruger should break into the mid-range semi auto shotgun market using domestic production. Buyers here are willing to pay more for a quality product and the price bracket is wide open looking at all the makers out there. Ruger will need their marketing dept to put their big boy pants on as they will have their work cut out for them and Ruger management will need to support those crazy marketing ideas (for a while) until the Ruger shotgun brand gets established.

Enough rambling for now...

Cordite

 

[Snake45]

The Mossberg 500 and Rem 870 tooling and machinery has been paid for long ago. The Mossberg and Remington just need to keep the machinery maintained and their costs remain low. For Ruger to break into the pump gun market they would need to buy new tooling and machinery which would have to be supported by sufficient sales.

Cordite

All of that could have been said about Ruger's AR-15 and 1911, too.

 

[Big Old Boy]

Yep what snake45 said.

 

[WAYNO]

I know there are a lot of Mossberg 500 fans. My opinion, and my experience...The Mossberg is reasonably dependable, and reasonably priced. But fit and finish are at the lower end of mediocre. Expecting nothing more, Ruger could build a similar gun as well as Mossberg. I no longer think Ruger could build it better.

I know this discussion targets the Mossberg clone, but I have another idea...

When I answered Ruger's recent questionnaire, I clicked on a break-open shotgun as a product I'd like to see.

A Savage 24 clone, or Savage 311 clone. Ruger was unable to keep up with the requirements of a quality SxS or O/U, but I think they could do a fair job with a gun similar to the old (also mediocre) Savage offerings.

WAYNO.

 

[DGW1949]

Hey Wayno....Once upon a time, I was longing for Ruger to offer an affordable, traditional-style, dual-trigger, SXS SG. But that was then and this is now.
These days, a different reality has set in...meaning my thinking in terms of Ruger Inc. is purty-much the same as Rick C's thinking...meaning that Ruger Inc. has slowly but surely seen to it that I no longer have the confidence to buy a Ruger simply because it's a Ruger...bottom line being that in my book, Ruger needs to get back to it's roots before it dives off into another market.

There's difference in affordable and cheep-made...That's what I'm saying.

DGW

 

[gtxmonte]

The Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870 are proven, reliable shotguns that have stood the test of time. Sure Ruger could build one. Would I personally buy it? No, why would I? The other two are proven and you are not going to reinvent the pump shotgun and make something substantially better and cheaper than the other two. And the Ruger label on it would mean nothing to me, except the way things seem now, that I may have to send it back twice to get a decent one..............No thanks

 

[winchester348]

Ruger has often made what was old new again. They were founded on taking an old classic design, adding a few nuances and then cornering the market on a product that was revolutionary but brought out thoughts of reminiscence. Since people pay big money for reminiscence they didn't mind paying a little more. Folks aren't going to pay for a Mossberg or Remington 870 rehash. But a model 12 or 42 Winchester? maybe. Shotguns in my opinion, are hard to sell. At least here in the south. No quail to hunt and the days of owning a nice collection of shotguns has gone way to owning a lot of rifles and handguns. Now up north where folks use a shotgun more often maybe a different story. Here in Georgia, the folks I know may own a couple of safes full of rifles and handguns but usually limited to a few shotguns. take away grand pa's hand me down A5, a turkey gun or dove gun and a self-defence shotgun leaves not much room for owning much more.

 

[jjas]

winchester348

Shotguns in my opinion, are hard to sell.

That's what my LGS in southern Indiana says too. They can sell pistols and rifles but most shotguns have become a hard sell for them.

 

[COSteve]

Deleted

 

[Don Lovel]

with the new shotgun that Kel Tec came out with, I think we will see the defensive shotgun market get wild and pretty innovative
being able to put 25 rounds of 12 gage, (40 mini shotshells) in a light shotgun is going to change the market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxwBdKE_xhk

 

[GunnyGene]

with the new shotgun that Kel Tec came out with, I think we will see the defensive shotgun market get wild and pretty innovative
being able to put 25 rounds of 12 gage, (40 mini shotshells) in a light shotgun is going to change the market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxwBdKE_xhk

Quite a piece of work. I wonder how they solved the shell flip problem with mini's in a pumpgun?

Oh, and this will never, ever, be allowed in CA and other blue states. I can hear the screams of horror already - "This thing is like a handheld Claymore" ( https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/40-shot-12-gauge-kel-tec-ksg-25/ ). I want one. :mrgreen:

 

[Snake45]

I can hear the screams of horror already - "This thing is like a handheld Claymore" ( https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/40-shot-12-gauge-kel-tec-ksg-25/ ). I want one. :mrgreen:

Fabulous! That should be somebody's combat shotgun advertising slogan! :twisted: :lol:

 

[mac66]

Ruger reinvented the bolt action rifle with the American rifle. I know people who own the ranch and preditor model who dont hunt and never owned a rifle before. The could reinvent the shotgun with an American shotgun that could be used for defense or sport. Ruger is the largest gun maker in the U.S. they could make money with a shotgun.