How long to clean your barrel?

[edfardos]

Those of you who've read my posts know I'm still experimenting with a new 44mag SRH, so I'll ask what you think is a tolerable amount of leading in your barrel.

Let me ask ya'll this, how long does it take to clean your barrel? using a flashlight at one end and looking in, do you still see a few specs of shiney lead in the rifling when you're done? Call it quits when you don't see any streaks on flat areas?

I've tried Oregon Trail .431 lasercasts, which don't lead much, but I can barely push them through my cyl. I've tried Missouri Bullets at .430 (and softer), which lead quite a bit, but I can typically clean 95% of it out in 30 minutes (brass brush, patches, and Hoppes #9).

So, how long till it's "clean enough" ?

thanks!
-edfardos

 

[stantheman86]

More barrels are ruined by overzealous owners scrubbing them to death with bronze brushes trying to get every last spec of lead and carbon out.........than by any amount of shooting.

I use Hoppe's Bench Rest or Outer's bore foam for stubborn lead and copper. Let that stuff sit in the bore and chambers overnight, and you'll be amazed at how green the patches are the next day.

Usually I run a patch or two wet with Eezox, get most of the carbon out, then follow with a dry patch and call it good. I rarely use brushes and when I do it's nylon only.

I've been shooting wheelguns for about a decade now and have never scrubbed a bore with a bronze or brass brush, and haven't had a problem yet.

 

[DeletedMember275]

When dealing with cast bullets, fit is king. The bullets must seal the bore against hot gases, or they will lead. Perhaps nearly as important is bullet alloy hardness; the hardness must correspond to the pressure generated by the load, or the bullets will lead. Use harder bullets for higher pressures, and softer bullets for lower pressures. Oregon Trail bullets typically run around 18-22 Bhn, so they are suitable for pretty stout loads - providing they fit the groove diameter of your barrel.

I probably sound like a broken record by now, but you need to do two things before you can eliminate leading (for all practical purposes). First, measure the chamber throats of your cylinder. Pin gauges are arguably the best way - certainly the most practical way - for most of us. They are available inexpensively from Enco or Grizzly. Next, you need to slug the bore on your revolver. There are numerous videos on Youtube demonstrating the procedure.

Your cast bullets need to be at least as large as the groove diameter of your barrel -at the time they get there! If your chamber throats are smaller than groove diameter, a common problem with some Ruger revolvers, they need to be opened up. If there is a constriction in your bore under the frame threads, that needs to be corrected. Either Taylor Throating or fire-lapping can resolve that.

A few commercial cast bullet suppliers offer different diameter bullets within a given caliber. A very few offer bullets of different hardness. The best way to solve that issue is to cast your own.

Once that is accomplished, match the hardness of your bullets to your loads, and leading should virtually disappear. I can shoot 200 rounds or more of my cast bullet reloads through my guns, and clean the bores with only a few patches.

If your bore is already leaded, you need to get all of the lead fouling out of it; same with jacket fouling. Anything in the bore that creates friction is bound to cause leading there. IMHO the best way to deal with leading is to avoid it entirely.

 

[J Miller]

NO amount of leading is acceptable in a clean barrel. Modern barrels are no where near as prone to being ruined by cleaning as those generations ago.

However to clean any leading out of my barrels I use the Chore Boy scrubbing pad wrapped around an old bronze brush. Used dry it takes the leading straight out.

Normally I don't need to go that far cos I keep my bullets sized properly as much as possible.

Joeee

 

[edfardos]

Thanks for the additional insights, I think I understand how the correct size and hardness can be a magical no-lead combo. Softer bullets can be smaller, since they expand more and seal. Harder bullets might be larger since they don't expand, yet both seal the bore.

So given my test materials:

OT .431" (BHN=24)
MBC .430" (BHN=16)

H110
2400

My truth table so far is:

OT .431 H110 = almost no lead, just some specs in the rifling corners
MBC .430 H110 = specs in corners plus a "thumbprint" of lead in the first inch
MBC .430 medium-load 2400 = specs in corners, plus thumbprints down the length

I tried the 2400 thinking it was a faster powder and might get the softer MBC .430 bullet to expand sooner and seal the bore, but at the same time, it has 10% less velocity/energy, since i didn't load it to the published max (H110 is always loaded to the max).

Given these materials which would you try next? I know you're thinking, just go with the .431's and H110, but I'm concerned they're too large since I can barely push them through the SRH cylinder, if at all. The .430 bullets almost fall through the cyl, but not quite.

I'm inclined to try the smaller/softer bullet with a larger dose of 2400 under the assumption that it needs more pressure to obdurate. On the other hand, it's a softer lead, so more pressure/heat might be vaporizing the back of the bullet, causing leading also.

You guys clearly understand the science behind a good fit, so I'm interested in which load combo you might try next. Unfortunately, I'm not yet willing to take my new SRH to a smith for routing. I'll look in to slugging and measuring cones too.

hmm,
-edfardos

 

[Terry T]

How long to clean a barrel? I try to clean it the whole length! :shock:
Terry T

 

[Anonymous]

I'm rimfire only these days, but I'll through in my 2 cents, since a lot of .22 is just waxed lead. I average about 100-150 rounds per session.

I run a wet patch (Hoppes No. 9) and let the gun sit half an hour. Then another wet patch, two brush cycles and a dry patch. Then I repeat this without the wait, usually two more times, sometimes three. I don't try for a perfectly clean dry patch. That last bit of gray can take take a lot more work and isn't necessary. IIRC, this worked well with my centerfire guns in the past, too.

The copper washed .22s are easier cleaning, as would be jacketed centerfires, of course.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

The .431s sound like a better fit. Since they are 24 BHN, your finger is not likely swaging them down. Don't worry about shooting those.

You likely have a barrel constriction where your barrel threads into the frame. The harder bullets will have a measure of spring-back after passing this constriction, so the keep the bore pretty well sealed.

The .430s are softer and since they are loose in the throats, some gass blows by, but not much. The difference between the leading with H110 and 2400 is likely the burn rate. The H110 might be still in a high pressure state after the bullet passes the frame constriction and so makes the bullet re-obturate. The pressure with 2400 may have fallen off enough at that point that it can't re-obturate. A softer .430 might work with 2400.

The bit of "thumbprint" you see could be from the little bit of blow-by for the 430 as it passes through the throat.

I would stick with .431s. It might be worth finding some .431s in the 14-18 BHN range.

 

[Bucks Owin]

NO amount of leading is acceptable in a clean barrel. Modern barrels are no where near as prone to being ruined by cleaning as those generations ago.

However to clean any leading out of my barrels I use the Chore Boy scrubbing pad wrapped around an old bronze brush. Used dry it takes the leading straight out.

Normally I don't need to go that far cos I keep my bullets sized properly as much as possible.

Joeee

10X Joe....And a switch to LBT lube which claims you shoot out any leading will hopefully end any scrubbing... :shock: 8)

(I've yet to shoot any LBT, we'll see... :wink: )

 

[edfardos]

Thanks for all the hints guys, I really appreciate it.

I just upped the load on the MBC .430" 2400's by 5%, so I'll see if they slug up anymore, but I don't want to push them any harder than that. For completeness, I'll probably download them in my next batch, and see what happens.

In the long run, it sounds like the hard .431"'s are my best bet, and I suppose it doesn't hurt anything that I can't really push them through the cyl with finger pressure. They're all accurate imho, and I was just worried about the tight fit of the .431's (say if I want to download them later, will they jam in the barrel?)

I'll let the solvent sit on the barrel for 20 mins as was also mentioned and see if that quickens cleanup time, plus I'll probably adopt a lower standard for "clean" since the last bit of lead takes the most time to remove.

It'd be really neat to try a softer .431 tho, I like that idea. MBC makes .430's only at BHN 18 (special runs can be made on request tho). Oregon Trail is .431 only and they're hard.


cool,
-edfardos

 

[Luckyducker]

I can clean my pistols in about five minutes using a piece of a Choregirl copper scrubber to remove the lead fowling and then some solvent to clean carbon residue. The Leadhead brand .452"(???) 270 grain Keith style SWC bullets don't seem to lead the bore of my Bisley Vaquero 45LC near as much as bevel base bullets I used to shoot. I am not sure of the BHN of these but some heavier gas check bullets are stated as BHN 20-22, and I assume he isn't using different alloys for the lighter weights but I don't know for sure. I used to use the Birchwood Casey Lead removal cloths and they aren't cheap. They would remove the lead but required a lot of passes/time.

 

[edfardos]

Okay, i was incredulous about the choreboy copper scrubby pads, but I had the wife get some anyhow. After checking them with a magnet, i wound some around a worn out brush, and after a dozen strokes, the bore was clean! Stunning.

As far as the small/soft .430 bullets go, they still leaded at 20.7grains of 2400, which is about as hard I want to push anything out of my SRH. The choreboy completely removed the lead.

In any event, i'll probably stick to the .431" hard oregon trail bullets even though I can't really push them through the cyl by hand. My muzzle velocity is identical to the OregonTrail reloading data, so I think I'm safe. Accuracy is pretty amazing with both bullets. I'll certainly get the MBC bullets if I can't get Oregon Trails in the future.

all good, thanks again,
-edfardos

 

[DeletedMember275]

Don't worry about not being able to push the .431" diameter bullets through the chambers by hand, When that 45,000 CUP of chamber pressure hits them, they'll go right on through! I routinely shoot .454" bullets through all of my .45 Colt handguns; some throats are .4525", some are larger - doesn't hurt a thing.

As far as sticking the bullets in the bore while downloading; if you're using any published data, that should NOT be an issue!

 

[gramps]

What weight cast bullet are you driving? 240 gr .431 cast bullets with a BHN 0f more than 18, and 20 grs of 2400 shouldn't lead. In fact you shouldn't get leading til BHN drops below 12. So your problem may be the resriction in the first inch of your barrel. Good luck in your quest.
gramps

 

[Swampbilly]

I clean after every shooting outing. I usually make 3 or 4 swipes through with a Hoppes-soaked bronze brush, then inject the bore foam and plug both ends and let that sit an hour or so. Then clean with patches from there on.

My bore light seems to show all nice and clean after that.

 

[WESHOOT2]

I clean a bore until it literally squeaks.
THEN, I saturate a clean patch with Tetragun Oil (even though it stinks like a$$) and swab the bore until its drips out the end.
I let it dry COMPLETELY (might take a few days).
Then I run a dry patch through and commence shootin'.

I do that once every year or two. Leading does not occur.

 

[tek4260]

Getting away from those bevel based boolits will help as much as anything.