Federal judge Berman VACATES Tom Brady suspension!

[ChiefMuzz]

It's just another instance of the Patriots getting their way. You don't like something that the players agreed to in the CBA, take it to the courts. :roll:
The judge didn't rule on the evidence or lack thereof, he ruled on the procedural issues he (thought) the NFL made. He also, inevitably, weakened the CBA and bargaining agreements since the players agreed to these terms in the last CBA. I guess the only solace is the Pats will still have draft picks surrendered for their role in this messed up circus. That and maybe, just maybe Brady will get his punishment handed to him on the field.

 

[ChiefMuzz]

You made it all of one sentence before you started talking about "hate". That tells me all I need to know about your perspective on this.
The judge stated himself that he was in no position to rule on an arbiter's (sp?) findings, and he didn't. There is no "fairness" in life and the players didn't agree to a "fair clause" in the CBA. They agreed to give Goodell power to make and review appeals on discipline. The same CBA that Kraft has been lauded for his hand in helping craft and support, which when it doesn't treat him "fairly" he tries to fight.
BTW the teams punishment wasn't just for this, it was for the "culture of cheating" the team has supported through this past decade. Think of it like a "Lifetime Achievement Award" for Belicheck and Kraft. Goodell didn't act unilaterally on this, he was pressured by many influential owners who felt Kraft and the Patriots have been getting off the hook for too long. His peers wanted that punishment and Goodell had to do as his bosses wanted.
Like I said, just a big ol' circus of buffoonery.

 

[hittman]

Further proof much of the judicial system lacks as much integrity as the Patriots franchise and their staff.

 

[graygun]

Oh well,at least the regular season starts in a week.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Good grief!

I'll admit my bias: I'm NOT a football fan, but ferhevinssakes, this whole thing could be "fixed" in about two minutes. NFL issues a ruling: ALL game balls are given to the referees before the game, who check and adjust inflation pressures, then issue the balls used on the field as required. You know, kinda like they do in baseball, volley ball, tennis, soccer, ping pong, and probably every other kid's game with two or more people using the same ball that "adults" love to get paid so much to play?

Rick C

 

[hittman]

Lemme guess ...... Patriots homer? :roll:

Fanboys unite!

Be interesting to see if there's any New England area backlash against the sports commentator in Boston who suggested yesterday the NFL commissioner be murdered. Folks are taking this way, way too seriously.

 

[wolfsong]

Chief, as much as Goodell has the authority to issue punishment for alleged misbehavior, the teams, the owners, the players have a right to appeal, according to the CBA.

Both entities must present their best case. Apparently, the NFL did not do so convincingly enough. Oh, well.

 

[ChiefMuzz]

Chief, as much as Goodell has the authority to issue punishment for alleged misbehavior, the teams, the owners, the players have a right to appeal, according to the CBA.

Both entities must present their best case. Apparently, the NFL did not do so convincingly enough. Oh, well.

I absolutely agree, like I said, it was a procedural win and handled in court. The CBA doesn't grant a right to court appeal, but that's the route they went and their lawyers prevailed.

 

[pete44ru]

.


AFAIK, this is still America - where folks are supposed to be held innocent, until PROVEN guilty.

What I can't believe is the widespread stated presumptions of guilt (not just here), w/o any proof - just conjecture & bias.

Put yourselves in the shoes of the accused - what would YOU do ?


.

 

[ChiefMuzz]

.


AFAIK, this is still America - where folks are supposed to be held innocent, until PROVEN guilty.

What I can't believe is the widespread stated presumptions of guilt (not just here), w/o any proof - just conjecture & bias.

Put yourselves in the shoes of the accused - what would YOU do ?


.

Well this isn't a legal trial so let's start with that. Secondly there is actually quite a large amount of circumstantial evidence - as well as the fact that Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone thus getting rid of any proof on there. If I were the accused and I was innocent. I would cooperate, give them what they ask for, prove my innocence and move on.

 

[powder smoke]

What the heck does a cell phone got to do about anything? Smart phones have pressure gauges?
Or is conversations with the ball boys? The deflator. Refs handle the ball after each and every play,
how come they could not tell? Something is fishy for sure the team fined 1 million that's not enough?
Blacken Brady's career with no proof he had anything to do with footballs the refs thought were fine.
If not they would have pulled them. Colts are sore losers NFL been trying to knock the Pats of their
perch for sometime. Belechek is the best coach in football he wins with average player and rightfully so.
No matter who gets hurt he has a game plan. Great Organization imo.

Good deal Brady back on the field. Wonder if they'll check the balls a game time? lol

Go Pats. ps

 

[wwb]

A tempest in a teapot as far as I'm concerned (not a football fan). The really stupid part of the whole deal is that the TEAMS provide the game balls... it's not as though the NFL can't afford to provide and maintain control of "official" balls for each game. :roll:

 

[ChiefMuzz]

A tempest in a teapot as far as I'm concerned (not a football fan). The really stupid part of the whole deal is that the TEAMS provide the game balls... it's not as though the NFL can't afford to provide and maintain control of "official" balls for each game. :roll:

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady lobbied the league 8 or 9 years back to let teams provide the balls. Obviously after this kerfuffle that is not the case anymore.

 

[pete44ru]

The really stupid part of the whole deal is that the TEAMS provide the game balls... it's not as though the NFL can't afford to provide and maintain control of "official" balls for each game. :roll:

Nah - That'd cut into the $400+ Million that the NFL owners (as a whole) stand to make next year. :mrgreen:

Make no mistake - The team owners ARE the NFL, with an appointed "commissioner" to do their bidding.

The human trait of jealousy ( coveting being a mortal sin, according to the word of God) leads many a person down an unjust path.


.

 

[ronto]

I don't give a damn one way or another. However, for the NFL to withhold evidence used to punish Brady from Brady's lawyers violates the doctrine of "discovery" which on the surface seems unfair to me.

 

[ChiefMuzz]

.


AFAIK, this is still America - where folks are supposed to be held innocent, until PROVEN guilty.

What I can't believe is the widespread stated presumptions of guilt (not just here), w/o any proof - just conjecture & bias.

Put yourselves in the shoes of the accused - what would YOU do ?


.

Well this isn't a legal trial so let's start with that. Secondly there is actually quite a large amount of circumstantial evidence - as well as the fact that Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone thus getting rid of any proof on there. onIf I were the accused and I was innocent. I would cooperate, give them what they ask for, prove my innocence and move .

If I were a celebrity, and married to a super model, there's no way in hell I'd turn over my phone to a third party, for them to amuse themselves with.

Brady says he was told that they wouldn't need his phone any further, and THEN destroyed it.

As it turned out, his common sense was vindicated.

A small number of emails WERE exposed during deposition testimony that was released to the public.

What happened?

The news for a week was about how Brady had made a couple of comments 'dissing' Peyton Manning.

Now why again, would Brady turn over HIS private email?

Please stop with the silly nonsense. They asked him to turn over his phone and the day before he was set to give it to them, "Oops I destroyed it cuz you know I do that with all my phones before I get a new one" except he still had his old phones.

Look if you are happy he got off on procedural issues and technicalities great. Be happy and joyful and whatever. Just please don't try to continue and rationalize all this nonsensical stuff.

He turned over his private email because there was nothing in there. Why did he destroy his phone? Why did he lie about not talking to the ball boys? Why did he lie about not even knowing the ball boys? Why did the one identify himself as the deflator? Why did they send multiple texts back and forth about over inflating the balls to punish Brady for being a jerk? We can do this silly question game all day long.
Like I said. It's all just a silly circus and Brady came out on top. Life goes on.

 

[hittman]

From a talking head on ESPN ........

Deny til you die and destroy evidence. The new American way? Likely our children are learning how to play.

 

[powder smoke]

Lots of good points on both sides, fact remains it just a game. Baseball players
used pine tar football player deflate balls it is all to gain an advantage. What little it might be.

Go Pats. ps

 

[ChiefMuzz]

...He turned over his private email because there was nothing in there. Why did he destroy his phone? Why did he lie about not talking to the ball boys? Why did he lie about not even knowing the ball boys? Why did the one identify himself as the deflator? Why did they send multiple texts back and forth about over inflating the balls to punish Brady for being a jerk? We can do this silly question game all day long.
Like I said. It's all just a silly circus and Brady came out on top. Life goes on.

He didn't turn over his private email.

He turned over RELEVANT emails, and in doing so revealed fragments of connected but unrelated emails.

He destroyed the phone because he was told it wouldn't be required further, and to avoid the kind of crap that happened with the emails released about characterizations of Peyton Manning.

You're the one interjecting all sorts of new questions about the ball boys. I was responding to your post suggesting that YOU would happily surrender your private email. YOU'RE not Tom Brady.

He had reasons to protect his privacy that you may not.

Per Tom himself he destroyed the phone because that's what he always does. Except he doesn't. Also per him he didn't give them his phone because he didn't want them to see any personal information on there. So be it. But he must have lost it all when he destroyed it. Honestly I can't continue to discuss this with you if you don't even know the facts of the situation. I was just playing along with your question game, but it doesn't seem like you want to play now. I'm not an NFL player, I didn't agree to the CBA, and I wasn't found to be aware of any wrongdoing and cheating by the NFL. So I don't have any reason to turn over my email of phone.

 

[ChiefMuzz]

Lots of good points on both sides, fact remains it just a game. Baseball players
used pine tar football player deflate balls it is all to gain an advantage. What little it might be.

Go Pats. ps

That reminds me of the Robert Kraft quote when he sat down with Bill Belicheck after they were caught taping other teams, against the rules. Robert asked him if it really helped him out and Bill said "No". Robert's reply was "Well then you're a schmuck". These guys will go to any, ridiculous, lengths to try and get an advantage and most of the time, they gain none.

 

[ChiefMuzz]

Lots of good points on both sides, fact remains it just a game. Baseball players
used pine tar football player deflate balls it is all to gain an advantage. What little it might be.

Go Pats. ps

That reminds me of the Robert Kraft quote when he sat down with Bill Belicheck after they were caught taping other teams, against the rules. Robert asked him if it really helped him out and Bill said "No". Robert's reply was "Well then you're a schmuck". These guys will go to any, ridiculous, lengths to try and get an advantage and most of the time, they gain none.

Don't forget Mike Tomlin jumping into the path of an opponent running down the sideline
Don't forget the Jets assistant coach Sal Alosi, coordinating with other coaches to trip opponents from the sidelines
Don't forget the Saints having a bounty system aimed at injuring other players
Don't forget the Atlanta Falcons admitting to pumping crowd noise into their stadium to gain an advantage (think they're the only ones?)
Don't forget the Browns' GM illegally sending texts to the sidelines

...just a sampling of OTHER teams looking for a competitive advantage.

And then there's the Ravens and Colts, trying to use the NFL to knock the Patriots out of the playoffs because they couldn't beat them on the field.

Oh yes let the conspiracies roll.
I see you failed to mention the first time the Patriots got caught cheating over a span of years. I'm sure that was just an oversight. :lol:

 

[ilikerams]

BTW, why hasn't Aaron Rodgers been sanctioned for admitting that he likes balls OVER inflated?[/quote]
So you're against the first admendment now? since when does stating a preference warrant sanctions?

 

[ChiefMuzz]

BTW, why hasn't Aaron Rodgers been sanctioned for admitting that he likes balls OVER inflated?

So you're against the first admendment now? since when does stating a preference warrant sanctions?[/quote]

Not to mention, saying that's what feels best to you is not close to actually doing it.

 

[DBCrader]

Federal judge Berman has ruled in favor of Brady, and criticized just about every element of the NFL's case against him.

YAHHHHHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Patriots' last pre-season game is tonight (Brady won't play), but they open next Thursday night against the Steelers.

BIG RATINGS!!!

LINK

You can't convict someone of wrongdoing and deprive them of income WITHOUT EVIDENCE!

ETA:
The judge even specifically commented that the league's application of the 'conduct detrimental to the league' policy, was MISPLACED in this case.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Tom Brady could manage to survive 4 weeks off... after all, he works less than half a year!!! And what with the idiot Patriot fans taking up a collection to pay poor Tom's fine, I'd say starving is the last thing on his mind!!!

It's called "cheating", and there are rules against it. Of course Tom Brady and the New England Cheatriots are too big a bunch of puss!&% to just shut up and be happy with the 4 game suspension... I hope EVERYBODY cheats against the Pats this year, so we can hear to sudden turn-around of the Pats fans about how unfair it is!!!

 

[ChiefMuzz]

And another decade long title the Patriots hold is that they have been punished more than any other team for their involvement in cheating. But hey, it's all good cuz they win and I like them!

 

[ChiefMuzz]

"...more probable than not.....generally aware...."

No evidence

Team:
ONE MILLION dollar fine
Two lost draft picks

QB:
FOUR game checks (VACATED)

Fairness should dictate relieving the team of the team penalties, and the NFL should tuck tail and forget about an appeal. They've had their collective heads handed to them.

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence. I'm sorry you have your fingers in your ears.

 

[ChiefMuzz]

And another decade long title the Patriots hold is that they have been punished more than any other team for their involvement in cheating. But hey, it's all good cuz they win and I like them!

I think the Saints took a pretty heavy hit for bountygate, and most objective folks would consider it FAR worse in magnitude and impact than either of the TWO things the Patriots were dinged for, generated by whiny losers (Jets and Colts).

PERSPECTIVE.

Actually there weren't punished more. They coach and assistant coach got a one year suspension.
The patriots lost 3 first round picks, and I beleive a 3rd and a 4th as well as other 1 million in fines.

REALITY. HOMERISM.

 

[powder smoke]

All crap aside, fact remains this IS America Innocent till proven guilty.
The presumption of innocence must prevail, they could not prove Brady
knew our did anything! Lets play football. ps

 

[FastEd]

These guys are pro football players. The last thing they worry about is trivial stuff like this.
Get out of their way and let them earn their money.

They all cheat and take every advantage they can get away with. They always have and they always will.

This Commissioner embarrassed himself and the League big time. They should stick that hose up his rear and pump him up to specs.

 

[FastEd]

Well this isn't a legal trial so let's start with that. Secondly there is actually quite a large amount of circumstantial evidence - as well as the fact that Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone thus getting rid of any proof on there. If I were the accused and I was innocent. I would cooperate, give them what they ask for, prove my innocence and move on.[/quote]

Do you think your own Secretary of State would surrender her phone and E-Mail?