case went up the barrel

wideglide

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Messages
78
City & State/Province
isle of palms, sc
I fired a Winchester 38 special in my Blackhawk and the case went with the bullet into the barrel and the round did not clear the cylinder. It's quite a jam. I can't open the gate to remove the live rounds either. The round did not bang, it fizzled. Any ideas?
 
when you say "it fizzled", does that mean the primer actually ignited??? fired ??? without "seeing" it,hard to say what to do but off hand, if it didn't go bang by now, its a 'dud'...any doubt, squirt a BUNCH of something like 'Kroil' or other penetrating oil around the case/shell/bullet in question,let it soak good, down the barrel as well as around the case head (into that chamber)...take few measurements, to "see" just what is where and how far in,etc......is the bullet still in the case?? etc.....
with the barrel of the gun in a well padded vise ( pointed in a SAFE direction) push the bullet/case, back into the chamber of the cylinder, and then remove the cylinder from the gun...we often have seen, and worked on guns where the "squib" load,"fizzled", clicked ,whatever and the bullet stayed in the cylinder.barrel gap, or into the barrel, but they at least separated enough to "clear" the "gap",freeing up the cylinder...it should push back wards, into the chamber if there was NO "detonation" thus causing pressure and doing other "things"............good question as to "how or why " the bullet AND case would get and go that far forward????? wrong ammo?? as noted above rim "separation"???? what....??? hhhmmmmm.................... :?

if ANY doubt, or feeling uncomfortable, or unsure..take it to a gunsmith :wink:
 
What caliber is your Blackhawk?
It does not make sense that the loading gate won't open, but it won't help anyway until the barrel gap is cleared.

Great advice from Ruger Guru! Getting these cleared is not rocket science so don't be intimidated. Even if the bullet is pushed down into the case, when it gets down into the thick internal bottom of the case, it should push the case back into the chamber with the bullet.

The only exception is if the case split in the middle and the bullet pushes all the way thru it. In that situation you'll need to drive the piece of case out of the barrel throat with a jacketed bullet inserted at the muzzle. But I doubt that will be needed because I doubt that the case went very far into the barrel; only into the throat. Depending on the caliber of the barrel of course.
 
I have had that happen with Winchester rifle cases.
Straight walled rifle cases like the .32-40 and .38-55 that have the canalour (sp?)
ring formed in the brass to prevent the bullet from being pushed down in the case
can sometimes brake off at that point and that part of the case will go along with the bullet. In my case that section of the case was stopped by the throat lead and the bullet did leave the barrel.
There was no loading another round possible until that little sleeve of brass was removed from the chamber throat. I made a chamber cast using Brownells Cerrosafe chamber casting alloy and the broken piece of case came out with it.

It sounds like that is what may have happened in your case.
I got rid of all my brass that has that canalure ring formed in them. Obviously it is a rare thing to happen. I can see that it could be dangerous though. I don`t need to be worrying about that sort of issue so I just don`t use that kind of brass any more. :wink:
 
We tapped the cylinder out and in doing so cut the lead at the cylinder barrel point. We then drilled and picked the lead from back and then from the front. After removing the lead the brass was like it was welded to the barrel about 1 inch in. By tapping out the cylinder we wrecked something because the cylinder will not advance. The hammer works fine without the cylinder in but with it in you can't pull the hammer back at all. We at least got the live rounds out and I guess it goes back to Ruger with a big check to make the repairs. After inspecting the rounds they seemed to bulge a bit at the point where the bullet is seated in the casing. They load with no problem and there is no binding. We shot 20 to 30 rounds before the fizzle and jam. This is a new one to me.
 
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change.
You should be able to see readily anything that happened to the cylinder now that it's out. Cannot see what would happen to the cylinder to cause your hammer issue that is not obvious. Getting it apart might have bent a tang or spring in the cylinder frame that has no pressure with the cylinder out. I wouldn't send it off until I had a better idea what happened and if I could fix it myself.
 
You may have just bent the cyl pawl (hand) or the cylinder latch in the bottom of the frame. Does the latch move up and down when you cock the hammer with the cylinder out? If it doesn't, look there for the problem.

How did you tap out the cylinder if you couldn't open the loading gate?

Do you have a new model or old model Blackhawk?
 
Hondo44 said:
You may have just bent the cyl pawl (hand) or the cylinder latch in the bottom of the frame. Does the latch move up and down when you cock the hammer with the cylinder out? If it doesn't, look there for the problem.

How did you tap out the cylinder if you couldn't open the loading gate?

Do you have a new model or old model Blackhawk?


I am interested in this also?
 
Hondo44 said:
You may have just bent the cyl pawl (hand) or the cylinder latch in the bottom of the frame. Does the latch move up and down when you cock the hammer with the cylinder out? If it doesn't, look there for the problem.

How did you tap out the cylinder if you couldn't open the loading gate?

Do you have a new model or old model Blackhawk?


I was guessing something like that and hoping someone more knowledgeable would chime in.
 
Had a Super blackhawk that would lock up on me. Worked fine with no cylinder in the gun. With the cylinder in the hammer would either not move or at best go back about a 1/4 the way. Turned out to be the pawl had a corner broken off of it. Replaced the pawl and works as good a new. Hard to say if your gun has the same problem. But you can order a pawl for probable under ten bucks and try it before paying lots of money just to ship it back to Ruger.
 
You should have listened to the advice about how to remove the cylinder w/o doing damage.
As far as the slight bulge where the bullet is seated, that's not usually a problem nearly 100% of my reloads have this. As to how part of the case passed through the cylinder, forcing cone, and 1" up the barrel, that's very strange. If the bullet was 1" up the barrel and some of the cartridge was still in the barrel/cylinder gap, how much of a 38 case was left in the cylinder?
After rereading this about 3 times I now have other questions.
First you're saying part of the case is "welded" about 1" into the barrel. Then you said you "cut the lead" when you drove the cylinder out. Sounds like it's not just a single cartridge involved.
 
LGS agrees with the bent pawl and repair will not be tough. The welded in brass is likely the FMJ which is about an inch up in the barrel. How the round got that far on a fizzle shot is a mystery. The gun is a 357 stainless steel 6.5" but I was shooting 38 special fmj. We had put about 15 rounds through before the fizzle and the gun, like all of mine, was very clean prior to shooting. We had also shot about 25 9mm's with the other cylinder befor the jam. I erred in the gate comment, we could open the gate but not pull back the hammer more than about 25% of the way. LGS thinks they can clear the brass from the barrel and hopefully all will be well.
 
I'm not buying this story without some photos and more specifics. My bet is that this was not a .38 spl in a .357 mag chamber. Maybe it was a .38 spl in a 44 mag chamber, allowing the brass to split. I just don't buy it.

-cu
 
I just don't buy it.

I'm having a hard time as well. It would take a severely oversized throat to allow the case and bullet to pass through, especially with a "fizzle".
 
I'll let everyone know when I get it back what the gusmith says. I don't care if you don't buy it... but it happened and I just wanted to hear if anyone else had a similar experience. The round was a 38 special and the gun had fired off the 3 ahead of the fizzle with no problem.
 
I think it was a 9mm case in the 357 chamber; it almost had to be a rimless case to move up into the barrel. And the fizzle would be caused by a weak primer strike and delayed detonation when the firing pin force drove the rimless round forward in the chamber.

Whether it's a piece of case or bullet jacket in the barrel the way to get it out is to drive a bullet thru from the muzzle. What pieces of case or bullet did you find in the chamber after the cylinder was removed? There must have been a case head.
 
sounds like that gun is gonna need a few parts after it's "fix"...bolt, pawl, probably cylinder repair
 
As best as I can understand him, wideglide wrote that about the 16th Win. .38 spl. FMJ fired fizzled and its bullet was left bridging the B/C gap. He sheared that bullet in half pounding the cylinder out of the frame. Next he dug at and/or DRILLED lead out of the barrel working through both the breach and muzzle. Apparently he drilled through all the bullets in the barrel leaving behind their jackets. Note that I wrote bullets (plural), wideglide didn’t. In his Dec.16, 7:34 AM reply he retracted his earlier statement that the cartridge case or part of it left the chamber.

Locally, a student in a beginning ladies handgun class filled a Python barrel with 130 grain GI surplus Win RN FMJ bullets until the last one bridged the B/C gap. Needless to say, she should have been supervised better. Is that what happened here but with only 2 to 3 bullets stuck in the bore?

If I correctly understand what happened, I’m afraid that in addition to ringing the bore by firing into a bore obstruction, wide glide may have damaged the barrel’s lands by the drill deflecting off the leading bullet’s nose.

Hondo44, please reread all wideglide’s posts and tell us what you think.
 
k22fan,
I only have a post labeled 6:34 am which must be the one you referred to. Yes I see what you're saying; he says the brass was probably bullet jacket 1" into the barell (which was drilled thru). Before that he said tapping out the cylinder cut thru the lead bullet. Although he said the 38 rounds were FMJ, he must have sheared thru a 2nd bullet or a third.

So he could have had two or three squibs in a row but the first and 2nd may have been louder and that wasn't noticed by him but left the 1st bullet lodged 1" into the barrel. And the 3rd round was a more obvious squib that didn't make it thru the cyl/bar gap and locked up the cylinder. Old/bad ammunition.

He may not have any barrel damage from stacking if he only had the two bullets, but if there were three squibs and three bullets, then he may have stacked them and bulged the barrel. The bullet jacket lodged in the barrel may be in a bulged area. Too bad he didn't follow suggestions to drive the bullets out instead of drilling; it may be hard to tell now how many bullets were involved. And it's hard to imagine not having some rifling damage after drilling.

Driving another bullet thru is still the best way to get the jacket out.
 
Been there, done that, and, thank goodness, lived to regret and learn from the experience. Squib loads stuck bullet(s) in the barrel with one stuck in gap between cylinder and barrel. This was with a Colt Detective Special so cylinder was "frozen" with three live rounds left. It went straight to the gunsmith who had to pull the barrel to get it fixed. Turns out that there were two bullets stuck in barrel plus the one in the gap. Resulted from shooting poorly reloaded ammo in rapid fire mode. Lesson learned. Since then I have DOUBLE CHECKED the powder charge in EVERY case before inserting the bullet. Not exactly the same, but it just shows that the primary rule for firearms is SAFETY FIRST. Fortunately my only cost was a replacement barrel and some labor charges. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good.
 
About 20 years ago, a guy came to me with a .38 Sp. revolver with a 4" barrel that had 3 bullets stuck in the barrel.

Fortunately he had not tried to drive them out because that usually just expands them and creates a tighter grip on the barrel, making their removal more difficult.

I took the gun to my brother's machine shop and we put it into the vice on a Bridgeport milling machine, indicating the bore until we got it straight up and down. Then Jay (my brother) center drilled the top bullet and followed that up with a 17/64 drill and drilled through all 3 bullets. Then he ran a 5/16 X 18 tap through all 3 bullets. Then by screwing an 18" piece of 5/16 threaded rod into the bullets, we were able to make a slide hammer out of it and pulled the bullets out one at a time.

It worked so well that Jay still has the home made slid hammer......just in case it happens again... 8)
 
what 5of7 said is very true. Trying to drive an obstruction out of the bore often just
causes it to become lodged even tighter with damage to the bore.
Drilling a pilot hole through a protective sleeve/ guide is a much better way to go and threading and using a puller if possible is a smart idea.
Don`t force it!!! Get a bigger hammer!!
 
It's on its way back to Ruger for a complete inspection and repair, probably will cost as much as a new gun though. At least it should be done right and I hope it comes back by the 4th of July. Thank all of you for your comments.
 
Just reading this topic and it has my head spinning. Without looking at the revolver, I can only say four things:

1) A squib (primer without powder) can stick the bullet between cylinder and forcing cone. Remedy is to push bullet back into chamber before removing cylinder.

2) FMJ bullet of JACKET FORWARD construction do not always get along with revolvers. In the presence of a rough chamber, rough forcing cone, rough rifling leade, or a stressed crimp cannelure, the skirt of the jacket may be left behind as core and nose drive through barrel. Also, pressure can blow the skirt into the forcing cone, stripping it.

3) It is a bad deal to hammer the cylinder.

4) Call Ruger Customer Service.
David Bradshaw
 
My guess is a 9mm round was loaded and a .38 put in behind it if that is possible.
One of the Cowboy shooters on the SASS WIRE loaded a .45 Colt round with a Cowboy load and a 9mm empty case inside the loaded round. As I remember it made for an interesting happening.
 
yes, without "seeing" hard to say and it does sound like a typical "squib load situaqtuio, and he is just NOT sure of just how many are in there or not...we first thought "maybe" he got a 38 super or some such mixed in with the other ammo, but figured it would have slipped forward and stuck in the beginning ,before he even started shooting......basically "fizzles" and b/c gap "plugged" is typical of reloads , and 'squibs'.............and yes years ago, when our shop was doing warranty repair work for the Dan Wesson Co, we had an 8 inch 15-2 V come in that had 7 rounds stuck in the barrel...he not only "squibbed" , he even took the time to reload and try again !!!! duh.......we sent that one back to the factory as a "momento"...and yes Mr Wesson himself was quite proud of the fact, the gun did NOT blow up, after 7 tries !!!! something to be said for the two piece barrel/shroud design.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top